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· Oldbie
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Before the flaming begins let me make it clear that I was not bashing GLFWDA. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I was trying to get the opposite point across. Basically the same thing Pat has been trying to say...we need to work together. This doesn't mean we all need to be members of the same organization just a common goal and a little cooperation.

Ari, look for a response to your PM later. It's been a while since the topic of GLFWDA has been brought up and I'm waiting for input from other members. I'm getting :gman: and my remembery isn't what it used to be.
 

· Registered
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purplejeep said:
Before the flaming begins let me make it clear that I was not bashing GLFWDA. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I was trying to get the opposite point across. Basically the same thing Pat has been trying to say...we need to work together. This doesn't mean we all need to be members of the same organization just a common goal and a little cooperation.

Ari, look for a response to your PM later. It's been a while since the topic of GLFWDA has been brought up and I'm waiting for input from other members. I'm getting :gman: and my remembery isn't what it used to be.
Waitin' on your response. :chauncy:

LOL, I just wanted to find a reason to use that cat!
 

· German cars are hot
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11,450 Posts
I was a member of GLFWDA who quit. I really think the new board and the new direction will really make a difference. Mike is a member of GLFWDA and while I probably wont join any more groups or clubs, I will encourage his involvement.
 

· i like jungle gym's.
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10,920 Posts
we have a club over here we just started over a year ago, called sand and swamp off road. i have done alot of wheeling with the guys from the whores and recon jeeps, great people. met duc from the 2 trackers another great guy! we wheel in the same area and it is a real battle 2 keep things going. our club just started a fall clean up on silver lake, last year we had 4 pickups full of crap, the dnr took our picture and we were also in the paper for that cleanup. posative image is always good right. we are definetly doing the trail cleanup in whitehall the 29th!! they have a great thing going down there. our club has like 15 regular guy,s right now, our first meeting we had over 60 people as soon as we said no drinking on the trail, we went down to 10 guy,s at the next meeting!! thats sad!! we are fighting to keep fire tower hill open right now!! it is proposed closed but talking to the forest service(who closed it) they had no right to close it, wich they actually just wanted to get the pipe out that was causing all the eroision,and while they were there they said lets block the trail!!! so we went to the county and it,s actually a none maintained road. so it,s open again! we are trying to keep things good around the west side so it shows 10 guy,s can make a diffrence. i also noticed now i drive buy the dnr around here and they actually wave to me, and pete the park mgr from silver lake, always gives us vouchers for the big weekends, any time we need them! and he personaly drops them off for us!! so we are making a diffrence!!! hope it keeps going !!!
 

· Hardcore Poser
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3,526 Posts
liv2mx said:
we are fighting to keep fire tower hill open right now!! it is proposed closed but talking to the forest service(who closed it) they had no right to close it, wich they actually just wanted to get the pipe out that was causing all the eroision,and while they were there they said lets block the trail!!! so we went to the county and it,s actually a none maintained road. so it,s open again! we are trying to keep things good around the west side so it shows 10 guy,s can make a diffrence.

Right on Erin! Thanks for your efforts in keeping that area open! :rock: :woot:

It goes to show what difference one person or a small group can make. It also demonstrates that having the support of smaller local clubs is so vital to the cause as they can provide key knowledge of the areas and/or even have relationships with the local officials.

Look forward to seeing you and Sand and Swamp Off-Road at the clean-up and thanks for the support.
 

· I'm not old, honest...
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31,366 Posts
purplejeep said:
Thank you CC.
The Two Trackers have a membership of over 60 families and is growing every month. Our in state trail rides over the last year have averaged over 30 member vehicles. We are a well organized and involved bunch with some good people like Pat Brower (Trail Fanatic), Scott Miller (Patriotic Jeep), Dave Smith, Jeff Traynor and Duc Duong (Kodiac) to name a few and we ARE getting something done. Keep up the good work guys! These people volunteer and enormous amount of of their own time to the cause with no reimbursement of any kind except their own satisfaction.

Mschaffer66,
I agree there is strength in numbers but, please don't suggest the only group anyone needs to join is GLFDA. Maybe they (GLFDA) should try to work with some of the other (4x4) groups in the state instead of always preaching "You need to join our organization so we can get things done" . In other words...we would like your money. Our group has talked about joining again (I believe we were members at one time) but we don't agree with some of the policies and politics of the group. That doesn't mean we wouldn't work with them on projects to help the sport.

Hmm, maybe everyone should join the Two Trackers.:sonicjay:

Just my $.02. BTW, you rock Pat:rock:

Boy, did you read my post wrong. There are a lot better ways to make money than to ask someone to spend $35 per year! We are not looking for more members to make money. We are hoping to continue to unite the wheelers in our state to work on common goals. This has been the basis of GLFWDA for over 30 years. Nothing new or sneaky. And I hardly think anyone is preaching. Just asking for help. Plain and simple. And working with other clubs in the state? Been doing that for over 30 years also.

I would be curious about the policies that you have issues with. Or politics???Feel free to pm me.
 

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Even though GLFWDA has changed its format from an association of clubs to an association of individuals, I still think it still fills an important role for clubs. For smaller clubs like ours, it lets us take advantage of resources, political contacts, DNR contacts etc that our little 8 member club or an individual doesn't have. For bigger clubs it offers a place to combine resources and talents with other clubs in the state, both large and small. Hopefully, as we go forward and mend some fences that were broken in the past, GLFWDA can continue to be a common forum for all of us to either work through or work with to get what we all want - more places to play and common sense ORV laws (so you can leave your lawyer at home when you go wheeling).
 

· Super Jeep Guy
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377 Posts
One of the reasons our club, Two Trackers, didn't join GLFWDA was because we couldn't join as a partial group, it was all or nothing. We had several that wanted to, and several that had reservations/questions. So, we couldn't get a majority vote to approve this.

We also didn't see them doing enough to push "the cause" at the Quarterly ORV board meetings or other issues statewide. Several members of out club have been attending these lately and their rep either just complained about things or didn't say anything. That board doesn't react to that type of comments and it needs to be approached in a different way. I realize it's not an easy thing (don't get me wrong). But we just didn't see a lot of things coming out of them.

If things are changing or have changed, we'd be willing to hear what you guys (GLFWDA or others) are working on and would look to work together. I think Pat was going to send a note seeing if you'd like to attend another of our meeting to give us an update....did that happen? If not, we meet the 1st Tuesday/month and we'd like to hear what you have to say.
 

· Member since 1994
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3,166 Posts
Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
Just a quick break from the NFS comments. . .

I hope EVERYONE that has taken the time to respond to this is willing to spend AT LEAST as much time helping in SOME way!

In the spirit of UNITY I fear leaving ANYONE out.

I BELIEVE in the idea of ONE voice -- with a TON of back up.
Speak softly, but carry a big stick.

Unfortunately it's not that easy.

I know the Sundowners are a member Club of the Rustbelt 4x4 Trail Riders Assn that was formed "after the split". Sundowners have a large membership.

I doubt they're the only Club in the Association.

Perhaps it's time to approach the entire Rustbelt organization, make amends, and merge back into one LARGE association with two Divisions of ONE Army: Trail Riding and Racing.

Do those of you involved with GLFWDA think this is plausible?

The "split" happened about two years before I became "Involved" with organized off-roading, but I'd heard that was the breakdown (I may be wrong).

Are any Rustbelt members on the Forum?
I know Terry Grost is involved with Rustbelt (I'd heard President).
I could approach him or give you each others contact info if both were willing.

Back again soon,
 

· I'm not old, honest...
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As I understand it, Rustbelt is an orgazation based out of southern Michigan and northern Ohio. They have a few clubs as members but I don't know how many. I attended a meeting about 2 years ago. At that time, I was told that they only supported United because wheeling in Michigan was dead and they felt it was a waste of time. However, I understand that Terry is still attending Michigan ORV meetings.

Regarding the racers & trail riders: There was a major upheaval that is the basis of alot of old hard feelings. I was not involved but I wish it could be mended. IMO, it doesn't matter what type of wheeling you are doing, we should all be on the same page!
 

· used to be Ironman
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patrioticjeep said:
One of the reasons our club, Two Trackers, didn't join GLFWDA was because we couldn't join as a partial group, it was all or nothing. We had several that wanted to, and several that had reservations/questions. So, we couldn't get a majority vote to approve this.

Since GL has changed (because of the reason stated above) your members can now join individually and everyone has a vote if they choose to join! This is good right? PK

We also didn't see them doing enough to push "the cause" at the Quarterly ORV board meetings or other issues statewide. Several members of out club have been attending these lately and their rep either just complained about things or didn't say anything. That board doesn't react to that type of comments and it needs to be approached in a different way. I realize it's not an easy thing (don't get me wrong). But we just didn't see a lot of things coming out of them.

We do our best work after the meetings when we discuss hot topics with the players involved. GL has been involved and has never missed an ORV advisory board meeting since it's inception. We also are members of the MMRC (Michigan Motorized Recreation Council) in which the chair of the ORV advisory board, Dick Raney, serves as chairman. So we get to talk to the "ORV Advisory Board" alot. Daily if you count e-mails! Next time when you see us there say something so we know who you are and we will introduce you to the folks who really listen and can help our cause. It might suprise you as to who these folks really are. PK

If things are changing or have changed, we'd be willing to hear what you guys (GLFWDA or others) are working on and would look to work together. I think Pat was going to send a note seeing if you'd like to attend another of our meeting to give us an update....did that happen? If not, we meet the 1st Tuesday/month and we'd like to hear what you have to say.
The same invite goes for your club when GL is holding a meeting, the next quarterly meeting is in West Branch at the Forwards Convention Center June 10. Check out the GL calendar for more info www.glfwda.org PK

Respectfully,

Pat Kinne
 

· Super Jeep Guy
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Pat, great feedback! Thank you! I will note it and try to get a couple of us to attend a GL meeting. Yeah, we have talked to a couple of the GL guys at the ORV meetings. That's how we arranged for him to come to one of our meetings last year. It just didn't pan out for our club to join, but that doesn't mean it can't. It definitely sounds like there are a LOT of us out there that all want the same thing. Like Pat says....we just need to get organized and make it happen.

I know there is a lot of comments back in forth in this thread and you can really see that people are passoniate about this, which is GREAT!!! And I hope people aren't offended or turned off, because of their frustration with it all or with others (or my) comments. I've seen some great things happening from the Two Trackers sub-committee that we are quite proud of and I know that is why Pat reached out to all of you!

I've only just heard about the MMRC at our last meeting and know that Pat was going to be attending their next meeting and reporting back to our club. Do they have a website with more details?
Scott
 

· Member since 1994
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Discussion Starter · #54 · (Edited)
whiterhino said:
I was not involved but I wish it could be mended. IMO, it doesn't matter what type of wheeling you are doing, we should all be on the same page!
AMEN BROTHER!!:rock:


I'll bring up GLFWDA at our next meeting and inform the membership of the recent changes.

I've sent in my dues; you should be receiving my information soon.

I plan to attend your next meeting -- provided work allows.

I'll be at the next A.B. meeting too (June 10th @ ? pm). I have to admit, it's been a good 3 years since I've attended one. I turned my attention to other areas for a little while.

I attended the last MMRC meeting at the urging of Carla B. and invitation of Jim M. It was my original intention just to listen, learn, and report back to my Clubmates. After learning the magnitude of the project, I would love the opportunity to continue to work with the MMRC (and the A.B.). Would GLFWDA and Jim M. be interested in my assistance in this area?
 

· German cars are hot
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whiterhino said:
As I understand it, Rustbelt is an orgazation based out of southern Michigan and northern Ohio. They have a few clubs as members but I don't know how many. I attended a meeting about 2 years ago. At that time, I was told that they only supported United because wheeling in Michigan was dead and they felt it was a waste of time. However, I understand that Terry is still attending Michigan ORV meetings.
I was actually camping at Silver Lake when Rustbelt had their silver lake trip about two years ago. It is a decent sized organization, i would think just from what I saw at least as large as GL. They are really great people and were fun to camp and wheel with. When our Jeep broke down on the dunes they pulled it back to camp and helped fix it. :rock:
I also had heard that rustbelt had given up on michigan wheeling but when I talked to some of them at camp they said that wasnt true.
 

· Member since 1994
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3,166 Posts
Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Our first mission

Well, there we go.
Everyone help think of ways to unite the direction of both organizations as well as the independents.

Doesn't sound easy. :(

That's why I thought this forum might be a good avenue.
Wheelers from who-knows-where all working together from an online based discussion board.

Ideas?
 

· Premium Member
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Trail_Fanatic said:
Well, there we go.
Everyone help think of ways to unite the direction of both organizations as well as the independents.

Doesn't sound easy. :(

That's why I thought this forum might be a good avenue.
Wheelers from who-knows-where all working together from an online based discussion board.

Ideas?
Just like I posted up on GLFWDA, There is a vast seperation of people in the online offroading forums these days. Alot of clubs and or forums have their only little groups who are working for the cause. I think if everybody was centered from one place, then it would be much more effective working as a group. The problem, how to unite everybody..

I'm sure someone has an idea or two.
 

· I'm not old, honest...
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31,366 Posts
Seems to me the basic format is already in place through GLFWDA. You might say why? Some items are debateable I know but give me some slack. Just trying to give some basic ground work.

Been around a long time.
Recognized by the State.
One of the oldest associations within UFWDA
Current grant sponsor for DNR trail maintenance
Already a non profit corporation with By Laws that are geared to this very issue.
Several members who know and understand the history behind our current laws
Several members who are on a first name basis with the officers and legal (Carla Boucher) represenatives of UFWDA
Carries insurance for trail maintenance and organized events.
Puts on 2-3 (along with member clubs) organized events every year since the 70's.

I guess what I am trying to say is this: Many different people say that something needs to be done. In most cases, they do not know where to start or who to contact. GLFWDA at the very least can give insight to what is currently going on, who to contact, what laws are in effect, and so on.

Is it perfect? No............... but who or what is?

We need to pool our resources together!

Jim
 

· Member since 1994
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3,166 Posts
Discussion Starter · #59 · (Edited)
Can't argue the logic

Until we can find a way to get ALL of the other clubs and assns in Michigan to join with GL, I think we should work on :

1) Getting the word out to rejoin GL ( Won't this cause great inner
turmoil?)

2) Develop a list of willing workers and their areas of expertise.
I.E. If you've worked with the C.O. in a particular county, list it.
If you know the internet well, list it - we could use you to help with research.
If you've worked with the NFS, list the District and type of project.

3) Each give a direction we'd like to see the group move in (a poll?)
Be specific.
I.E. "Work to assure the legality of Preacers Hill", NOT "open
up trails"

4) Review the 'voluteer' and 'direction' lists and prioritize our direction in accordance with our voluteer resources.

5) Develop a plan of action for the accomplishment of said direction by the volunteers

6) Work, Work, Work 'til it's done (with frequent, maybe even scheduled, online discussions along the way).

PM me your "resume" and 'direction' and I'll compile the lists and fwd copies to all interested.

Some of you are already on it! (thanks)
 

· Buy a Fiat! Save the UAW!
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well if you guys are in the mood to do volinteer work for trails then how would you feel about helping out to reopen a 50" trail? its not that the full size guys should want to help, but its a show of faith to the state that the whole orv community stands together. its not formal trail maintenence, its reopening closed trail. the trail has been closed for the last couple of years and is now being offered up to see what kind of turn out we can muster the reopening. I think its a test by the state to see where we stand. if we show up with a hundred folks or if three guys and a weed whip show up. I know its going to be around the 20-21 of May so figure out if its something you guys want to do.
 
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