Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest banner
1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Gustafson
Joined
·
10,085 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
As some of you remember my comments in a previous thread, I've had my truck in for service several times over the last few months and have a put a few thousand dollars into repairs. As of today, the dealer has now recommended that we replace the motor. When I asked the reason why, they stated that the tech can't find anything else to look at that could be causing the tick and low(er) oil pressure, so now they are thinking the motor is worn out and needs replacement. They also are recommending a used motor because new ones are on backorder.

I told him I have already given you THOUSANDS of dollars to fix this and you have not. I will not be giving you anymore money. I am supposed to hear back from him today. My question to you all is; Where do I go from here? I feel like I have been scammed. I have always taken my vehicles to the dealer for service, but I feel like I have really been cheated here. I cannot afford anymore money and I still have the same issue I had before.

Should I attempt legal action to get my money back? Call the BBB? I don't know where to go from here, but the thought of having to eat all this money really makes me sick to my stomach.

EDIT:I should add that this is a 2013 GMC sierra.
 

·
Hang all the thieves
Joined
·
1,770 Posts
Who'd they have doing the work, one of the oil change bitches? There's a finite number of parts and seals involved, and it sounds like you've spent enough to have found it by now.
 

·
Gustafson
Joined
·
10,085 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Who'd they have doing the work, one of the oil change bitches? There's a finite number of parts and seals involved, and it sounds like you've spent enough to have found it by now.
Who knows.... I do know this, the guy who did all the work no longer works at this dealer....
 

·
I'll Direc your TV
Joined
·
8,822 Posts
Who knows.... I do know this, the guy who did all the work no longer works at this dealer....
Tell them to replace the motor, as the cost of what you've already paid to fix the issue, hasn't been fixed. With that, they'll replace the motor without extra costs, since they still haven't fixed it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: aber61

·
Gustafson
Joined
·
10,085 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Tell them to replace the motor, as the cost of what you've already paid to fix the issue, hasn't been fixed. With that, they'll replace the motor without extra costs, since they still haven't fixed it.
Ideally that would be fine, but something tells me that's not going to happen.
 

·
I'll Direc your TV
Joined
·
8,822 Posts
Ideally that would be fine, but something tells me that's not going to happen.
Hell no, that's definitely not going to happen. Guess i'd just lay it out; you've spent literally (assumingly) thousands of dollars on a problem that hasn't been fixed yet, on their advice and recommendation that "this issue" is the problem, when they admit it wasn't the problem, and the problem is still there, then ask them how they expect this to go. You just supposed to say "thanks for trying, here's more money".

Get a cost of a replacement engine, or a rebuild of your engine. Then, you deduct what you've already spent, and tell them the difference is what you're willing to agree to pay.

I don't expect that to really go anywhere, but it's a good lead off if you need to go any further legally wise. I'm sure there are some laws that cover work you pay to have done, but it's still not done.
 

·
I'll Direc your TV
Joined
·
8,822 Posts
Ideally that would be fine, but something tells me that's not going to happen.
Also, this thread is not giving me confidence in my truck....

Which is a shame...cause I really really like it
 

·
Project Antitube
Joined
·
1,042 Posts
I forget, what is it and what are the symptoms?

Which engine is in it? LC9? 8th digit of the VIN would be a 3 or 7... or take a gander at the RPO codes in the glovebox.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,449 Posts
Wavecrusher nailed it in that they didn't fix the problem that you brought it in for. You spent thousands of dollars and you are no farther ahead.
With you mentioning that the tech that worked on it is no longer working there says plenty. Push the issue.
 

·
Red Dragons!
Joined
·
2,015 Posts
Exactly what wave crusher said. Take it to the service manager and general manager. Bring all of your records, be organized and polite. This is by the far the best way to make progress here.
Side question, is there a known issue with oil pressure on these? That would steer me away from used…I typically find that for a very little dollar amount more you can get a factory reman with a better warranty.

There is always plan B. We help them get publicity like Big E’s sports bar.
 

·
Gustafson
Joined
·
10,085 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Exactly what wave crusher said. Take it to the service manager and general manager. Bring all of your records, be organized and polite. This is by the far the best way to make progress here.
Side question, is there a known issue with oil pressure on these? That would steer me away from used…I typically find that for a very little dollar amount more you can get a factory reman with a better warranty.

There is always plan B. We help them get publicity like Big E’s sports bar.
There are all kinds of problems with the "LS" based AFM engines. Sadly I didn't know any of this before bought it. I just knew the "LS" was legendary. Turns out its a legendary POS. (to be fair, the LS based engines before AFM were much more reliable)

I like plan B, hopefully we don't need plan B.

Also, in regards to the used engine.... I told him, why would I install a used engine with the potential to have the same problems when a reman engine is supposed to have updated components that have all the bugs worked out? He said new engines are on backorder for several months.
 

·
Red Dragons!
Joined
·
2,015 Posts
If the back order is several months, get it ordered. You have been driving the truck with this issue for how long now? I have seen back orders of “several months” be 6 weeks for major components like engines and transmissions recently.
Sorry you are going through all the trouble.
 

·
Project Antitube
Joined
·
1,042 Posts
The AFM and VVT in these engines is simple. Most AFM problems are related to the lifter for it or the VLOM. Usually problems can be detected with cylinder 1, 4, 6, 7 with emphasis on 6 and 7. If it gets stuck, #1 seems to take the most abuse.

Do you have a decent OBD tool like a Scantool MX and Torque Pro? It's kind of a PITA to set up but it's doable, as compared to what I usually use (HPtuners).

If the oil pressure is 20 or above at idle and 30 by 3500rpm it matters not. That's all it needs to get the AFM to work properly. Fresh 5w30 synthetic on a hot idle usually produces 30psi or more. A worn motor on garbage grade oil will be closer to 20psi. If it struggles to stay at 20psi with good 5w30 in it I'd try some Rotella or Delvac 10w40.

There are a ton of PIs and TSBs on what to do with that motor. Most of them do require them to spend significant time with the MDI to run diagnostics and using a bore scope to check lobes if they don't just tear down the top end. None of them involve replacing the motor. Your dealership is full of parts changers that can't read or diagnose.

If they have already been in the top end, then some idiot may have put the lifters in wrong on the plastic guides and that can cause you grief.

Is there a lifter tick or is it the pintles on the injectors? Lifter tick does not frighten me. If it's a collapsed lifter where you get misfires then it is a problem. A noisy injector can sound like lifter tick. The crazier part is that when you rev the engine the "tick" will go away in the injectors. I'm guessing it has something to do with the duty cycle.

My L76 (6.0L, VVT, AFM) had lifter tick from day one. Sold it after 113,000 hard miles and the guy is still driving it as a rustbucket today with over 240,000 miles. The guy stops by once in a while to ask my Dad when I'm going to sell my current truck. My L86 (Gen V with direct injection so different on that side, VVT, AFM) has had lifter tick since day one. However, it has a two speed pump and it goes away if you force it to high volume/high pressure. All lifters and the entire AFM (VLOM...) system has been replaced.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,922 Posts
I got a guy that will sell you an extended warranty for a reasonable price he calls me about 4 times a day, next time he calls I will give him your number.




I would ask for a meeting with the owner of the dealership and explain your case along with an emphasis on your long term relationship with the dealer before this and after.
 

·
Gustafson
Joined
·
10,085 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The AFM and VVT in these engines is simple. Most AFM problems are related to the lifter for it or the VLOM. Usually problems can be detected with cylinder 1, 4, 6, 7 with emphasis on 6 and 7. If it gets stuck, #1 seems to take the most abuse.

Do you have a decent OBD tool like a Scantool MX and Torque Pro? It's kind of a PITA to set up but it's doable, as compared to what I usually use (HPtuners).

If the oil pressure is 20 or above at idle and 30 by 3500rpm it matters not. That's all it needs to get the AFM to work properly. Fresh 5w30 synthetic on a hot idle usually produces 30psi or more. A worn motor on garbage grade oil will be closer to 20psi. If it struggles to stay at 20psi with good 5w30 in it I'd try some Rotella or Delvac 10w40.

There are a ton of PIs and TSBs on what to do with that motor. Most of them do require them to spend significant time with the MDI to run diagnostics and using a bore scope to check lobes if they don't just tear down the top end. None of them involve replacing the motor. Your dealership is full of parts changers that can't read or diagnose.

If they have already been in the top end, then some idiot may have put the lifters in wrong on the plastic guides and that can cause you grief.

Is there a lifter tick or is it the pintles on the injectors? Lifter tick does not frighten me. If it's a collapsed lifter where you get misfires then it is a problem. A noisy injector can sound like lifter tick. The crazier part is that when you rev the engine the "tick" will go away in the injectors. I'm guessing it has something to do with the duty cycle.

My L76 (6.0L, VVT, AFM) had lifter tick from day one. Sold it after 113,000 hard miles and the guy is still driving it as a rustbucket today with over 240,000 miles. The guy stops by once in a while to ask my Dad when I'm going to sell my current truck. My L86 (Gen V with direct injection so different on that side, VVT, AFM) has had lifter tick since day one. However, it has a two speed pump and it goes away if you force it to high volume/high pressure. All lifters and the entire AFM (VLOM...) system has been replaced.
Idle is low, maybe 500rpm in gear. At hot idle it sits about about 20psi. cruising down the road, it sits between 30-35psi. on the freeway (near the 2,000rpm mark) its just under 40psi. Back in April though, it was near 30psi at hot idle, 40 cruising down the road, and 45ish on the highway. So, something happened to this motor from April to the end of May and no one can figure out what it is.
 

·
I'll Direc your TV
Joined
·
8,822 Posts
I got a guy that will sell you an extended warranty for a reasonable price he calls me about 4 times a day, next time he calls I will give him your number.




I would ask for a meeting with the owner of the dealership and explain your case along with an emphasis on your long term relationship with the dealer before this and after.
lmao
 

·
I'll Direc your TV
Joined
·
8,822 Posts
@wave_crusher

Since you have the exact same truck. What are your numbers?
So far, it stays between 35-45psi cold and hot. Never noticed it going any lower than maybe 30psi. Knock on wood. Just did my first oil change in it too.

Hoping I get a good amount of time before I have to do anything in the engine.
 

·
F-U-CANCER!!!
Joined
·
5,686 Posts
Sorry to hear about the shitty service you are getting. I would try what was suggested as far as going to talk to the service manager with your notes and your conversation planned out. Make a list of questions and bullet points beforehand, that way you will not forget anything. We all get a bit forgetful and stressed in a situation like this. If the meeting seems like they will blow you of, nicely mention the next paragraph.

If that does not help, do you have an attorney that you work with or trust? Possibly go see them for a consultation and ask them to write you a letter on letterhead explaining your timeline and notes. It will let the dealer know you are not a pushover and that you mean business. Auto repair facilities work on the equation that most people will bitch, but eventually just pay and take what they get.

I hate paying people to do shit in a non business environment, it often does not go down as planned. I am currently going through that with a well company. They quoted one price and then invoiced me 28% more than the quoted price. I never approved an increase etc... At work, this rarely happens. Companies quote projects, if things are not satisfactorily delivered, no-one pays. If I quote xxx dollars and it costs us xxxx dollars to produce, we just financed a learning experience.

Good luck!!
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top