[aber61]

So we get this notice in the mail the other day from DTE about how we now get to have choice in saving on the new rate increases. It really isn't a choice the way I see it. Maybe it is if you want to use candles to light your home during peak hours. Which are between 3 and 7 when kids get home from school and families are getting home from a day at work to come home and turn everything on in the house that uses electricity.

Dynamic Peak Pricing | Products | DTE Energy

Get ready for some big increases.

 

[wrath]

MPSC dictated Time Of Use pricing. The interruptible air conditioner thing is demand response, something marketed as a virtual power plant (as opposed to generating more power to meet demands, remove demands).

Lighting is a tiny portion of the power used in a home. Most usage are appliances.

 

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

I am SO thankful to be building a super tight, small, energy-efficient house with a passive solar design (mini-split/heat pump heating/cooling). Our electric bills over the last 3 months have been $54, $56, and $39 respectively. $22 of each of those amounts is basic connection fees, taxes, etc. We were shooting for low monthly overhead (and minimizing how much "the man" sticks it to us), and we're hitting that goal.

Granted, we're in East Tennessee, but we definitely get cold winter temps down here.

Craig

 

[whiterhino]

I would love to do a good solar system but don’t have anywhere to put it other than my roof. Since I invested heavily in a steel roof that should last my lifetime, I’m not interested on drilling holes in it.

 

[brewmenn]

I got a notice that I would now be on a "time of day" rate. Nothing volentary or something to sign up for. It's just happening. Not a big problem for me since i live alone and can adapt, but yea, it sucks for people with children.

 

[cerial]

Off-Peak Rate
11 cents per kWh

M - F: 11 p.m. to 7 a.m.

Weekends and holidays*

Mid-Peak Rate
16 cents per kWh

M - F: 7 a.m. to 3 p.m.

and 7 p.m. to 11 p.m.

On-Peak Rate
23 cents per kWh

Monday - Friday

3 p.m. to 7 p.m.

Critical Peak
$1.02 cents per kWh

Rare weekdays**

3 p.m. to 7 p.m.



I am one of the few who is inactive from 3pm to 7pm most weekdays and this will help.



I have an idea to reduce my home heating cost greatly next winter using only wind to heat up resistance wiring locate in my basement. It should greatly reduce my heating cost. Any time the windmill spins it directly powers the resistance wiring. The heat given off the resistance wiring acts as a radiant heater(and dehumidifier). No batteries or battery management systems and a very simple concept.


I live next to a stream and could potentially run a electric pump during off peak hours when wind was not available. when wind was available(most days) a simple belt driven pump with check valve could work.
I would fill 10 55 gallon barrels 40 feet above(over 70 feet distance) from that stream. Any excess would go to a port at the top of the last barrel and return back to the stream. This would make a 550 gallon gravity battery that could further reduce peak rates.



Also don't discount solar. I am not talking about panels I am talking about collectors. For instance using dark colored gravel or rocks can greatly reduce snow buildup around your home. If you have a seldom used room in your home that regularly sees a good amount of light making a indoor rock garden with dark colored rocks is a great way to make a indoor solar collector. Even placing pots filled with dark stones on the window sill can act as a mini solar collector.

The more area for the sun to hit the rocks the more the heat the collector will store. When the sun goes down these collectors will radiate that heat back out into your home. Now in most cases the difference is only a few degrees over around 1 to 4 hours. But that is still heat savings for very little actual work.


I picked up a book for $1 years ago called Solar Dwelling Design concepts. Tons of fun ideas and real world testing. It was funded by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development and because of this there is a FREE PDF linked below.
It discusses many solar methods and is worth reading through the 146 page PDF to make some cheap at home experiments to reduce heating cost.

Solar Dwelling Design Concepts : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Solar Dwelling Design Concepts

archive.org

 

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

Off-Peak Rate
11 cents per kWh

M - F: 11 p.m. to 7 a.m.

Weekends and holidays*

Mid-Peak Rate
16 cents per kWh

M - F: 7 a.m. to 3 p.m.

and 7 p.m. to 11 p.m.

On-Peak Rate
23 cents per kWh

Monday - Friday

3 p.m. to 7 p.m.

Critical Peak
$1.02 cents per kWh

Rare weekdays**

3 p.m. to 7 p.m.

Holy cow! Our energy rate here in East Tennessee is $0.07/kWh...something that was a deciding factor on our move decision (at the time, Michigan was around $0.16/kWh).

Also don't discount solar. I am not talking about panels I am talking about collectors. For instance using dark colored gravel or rocks can greatly reduce snow buildup around your home. If you have a seldom used room in your home that regularly sees a good amount of light making a indoor rock garden with dark colored rocks is a great way to make a indoor solar collector. Even placing pots filled with dark stones on the window sill can act as a mini solar collector.

The more area for the sun to hit the rocks the more the heat the collector will store. When the sun goes down these collectors will radiate that heat back out into your home. Now in most cases the difference is only a few degrees over around 1 to 4 hours. But that is still heat savings for very little actual work.

This is really cool stuff. For people interested in what cerial mentioned, search on "Passive Haus" or "Passive House", and "thermal mass". Our concrete slab is doing exactly what he's talking about, as our south-facing wall has three sliding glass doors. The sun shines in and heats the slab in the winter, but in the summer the sun angle is high, so it doesn't shine in.

Craig

 

[aber61]

I am SO thankful to be building a super tight, small, energy-efficient house with a passive solar design (mini-split/heat pump heating/cooling). Our electric bills over the last 3 months have been $54, $56, and $39 respectively. $22 of each of those amounts is basic connection fees, taxes, etc. We were shooting for low monthly overhead (and minimizing how much "the man" sticks it to us), and we're hitting that goal.

Granted, we're in East Tennessee, but we definitely get cold winter temps down here.

Craig

I like your idea of a small energy efficient home. When my wife and I go t married she was caring for her mom because of a disability she had. We built a large enough house to help with that, a 3000 sq ft home. 2000 sq ft main floor where the in-laws had their living space and common area with great room, kitchen, bath, bedroom and laundry room. Second floor we had 1000 sq ft master suite and an office.
Now that her mom and dad have both passed away we have this 3000 sq ft home for the two of us. Way more than we need. So are plan is to downsize, soon. we have commercial property down the street to the west of us and across the street. Commercial property to the east of us and state land behind us. Waiting for development of the three houses in our little strip to go commercial. Hopefully soon.

 

[JohnnyJ]

They are preparing us for the move to electric vehicles, electric heat, electric stoves, electric everything.

 

[aber61]

They are preparing us for the move to electric vehicles, electric heat, electric stoves, electric everything.

In Germany they are arresting people that are using power when they are not supposed to be using it. I think there is more to trying to make a shift from one source to another.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

A relatively simple thing folks could do to ease the pain, if they were a little more open minded, is run server batteries or the like on peak hours, and simply charge them off the grid on off peak hours.

Even more, just put the freezers and whatnot on timers, they really only need to run a few times a day.

I've said it many times before and will likely say it many times again, people need to be thinking about how to be self sufficient and making what moves they can to do so.

 

[1x1_Speed_Craig]

A relatively simple thing folks could do to ease the pain, if they were a little more open minded, is run server batteries or the like on peak hours, and simply charge them off the grid on off peak hours.

Even more, just put the freezers and whatnot on timers, they really only need to run a few times a day.

I've said it many times before and will likely say it many times again, people need to be thinking about how to be self sufficient and making what moves they can to do so.

Good idea! It's one I have been looking at myself. There are a lot of battery option; the EG4 has gotten pretty good reviews from solar guru Will Prowse, even though they can be charged via the grid and not just with a solar array.

Shop All - Batteries - Page 1 - Signature Solar

EDIT: I'm looking at this from a preparedness standpoint moreso than a peak energy avoidance standpoint.

 

[9T4YJ]

Yeah, you like that? I got my bill, that has the same amount of consumption this month as last, but my bill is higher this month.

I guess I just have to "choose" not to cook a meal for my kids and "choose" to stumble around in the dark, and "choose" to not have any heat during that time of day.

 

[JohnnyJ]

I guess I just have to "choose" not to cook a meal for my kids and "choose" to stumble around in the dark, and "choose" to not have any heat during that time of day.

how dare you!

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Good idea! It's one I have been looking at myself. There are a lot of battery option; the EG4 has gotten pretty good reviews from solar guru Will Prowse, even though they can be charged via the grid and not just with a solar array.

Shop All - Batteries - Page 1 - Signature Solar

EDIT: I'm looking at this from a preparedness standpoint moreso than a peak energy avoidance standpoint.

I've always looked at it from a preparedness standpoint as well, until about a month ago, then it dawned on me I could load up and dump my banks to my advantage at much lower cost lol.

 

[wave_crusher]

I don't understand policies like this....well I do, but I don't get why people think it's anything but a farce.

What's the ultimate plan here....every stops excess consumption during peak times? So then they choose to use their peak consumption during non-peak times....and turn that into the "new" peak time?

It's all a big smoke show, to make it seem like somebody is doing something. It's all just so DTE, Consumers...whomever can say "well we instituted new energy saving policies", disregarding that policy is BS.

Don't even get started on the "shift" to electric stuff. Electric ranges, electric heat...etc. All on an energy grid that barley holds on to what the demand is now. Cries about crude oil energy production ruining the county so ELECTRICITY FTW. Same old, same old. Still no talk about making that electricity since nuclear power bad even though is 5x more efficient than solar and wind. Nobody has figured out how to not kill thousands of acres of land with solar farms, or create a windmill that saves more energy than it costs to produce and maintain. Let alone the storage of that energy. It's all the same old argument that hasn't been changed in at least 15 years. (probably longer).

 

[SHARPMACHINE]

^^^^^^^ Agree 100%

Will this gain any traction??? = Breakthrough in nuclear fusion energy announced - BBC News

Or will it not fit the agenda?

 

[whiterhino]

A relatively simple thing folks could do to ease the pain, if they were a little more open minded, is run server batteries or the like on peak hours, and simply charge them off the grid on off peak hours.

Even more, just put the freezers and whatnot on timers, they really only need to run a few times a day.

I've said it many times before and will likely say it many times again, people need to be thinking about how to be self sufficient and making what moves they can to do so.

I haven't sat down to do the math to understand the actual costs of running at peak/non peak times, or how long it would take to get a return on the purchase of a good timer that can handle the load of a freezer/fridge. Making sure we do laundry at non peak times would be a biggie.

It's something I need to do.

Now on the other hand, I intend to run my welder, bridgeport etc whenever I damn well please.

 

[wrath]

I use a Vera Edge that I've had since they came out... I don't even know how old it is. 8 years? It uses zwave. I've had zwave for probably 15 years now. I still have some devices I bought when I was in college... 18 years ago.

A normal wall module is like $15. A fancy one that has flow capability is like $30.

The modern devices will let you switch heavy loads like a 220v water heater but they're expensive (~$100).

I have tons of stuff automated. Like the chicken coop (heat, waterer heat, lightning. Outdoor lighting. Pick something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-Wave

We are an entirely electric house, except we can burn oil or propane or anything else with the right burner plugged into our boiler. We mostly burn wood in a fireplace insert. We use 2200kwh or so a month. We have municipal power that's around $.09/kwh so it's pretty cheap for us. If they ever raise it I'll probably illegally put up solar panels.

One of the things I've found so amusing about those people that are anti-anything or live "off grid" are usually heavy on the dinosaur burning.

 

[cerial]

I actually planned gasoline on being above $5 a gallon back in 2015 and closer to $6 by 2020.

Electricity is going to go up for several reasons. Mostly greed mixed with poor planning.

I am heavily pro Nuclear as far as power goes. Acutally I am pro supercritical CO2 (sCO2) using nucular as a source.


Rods make heat inside a water tank,
Heat makes water hot,
Steam forms making pressure or in the case of critical sC02 pressure forms. The pressure drives a multi stage turbine then with steam it is mostly expelled.
With sCO2 your dealing with higher pressures in a closed system so a tube(s) inside of the rod tank that is heated. If you take liquid CO2 and heat it up it becomes supercritical before becoming a gas. In that supercritical state it has enough pressure to run a single or dual stage turbine about the size of a shipping container before being cooled back down via river water returning to the liquid state.

A 60x60 building housing 2 generatiors could power a town for the life if the rods. The liquid CO2 is natural, river water natural, and rods good for lets say 30 years. The entire thing could be frankly dang near controlled remotly.

Instead of having one massive nucular plant you have many small ones as common as water towers. This reduces grid transmission issues(power outages).

What do you do with all those pesky rods once they do become spent? Well locally here in Lower Michigan under all that fresh water is a large bowl of rock. Under that bowl is a very large (mostly unknown) salt mine. The mine is very deep and a great source for storage.

So next to your local water treatment plant(massive reserve of water) you will have a sCO2 nuclear power plant. Actually you could have one at your current water treatment plant right now. Outside of the transformer station and several lines coming off the building it could easily be overlooked as just another steel building.

sCO2 power plants are becoming more popular due to the lower initial cost, smaller size, and the fact you just need heat to power them. You could burn stuff and power a sCO2 power plant and if you stopped burning it would naturally cool making it super safe. Although burning trees, trash, waste, or using fuels like coal would be costly and bad. They could be done to power a city using a sCO2 in a safe manner. Nucular is obviously a much cleaner more effective methoud.

The idea of many small things adding up is nothing new.

Going back to that gravity battery. It can be done with water. But it can also be done with weight. Basically think of a elevator with concrete inside. You use wind, solar, or hydro to lift the large weight using a motor(very slowly via gearing) then when those resources are not available you lower that weight (very slowly via gearing) using the motor as a generatior.

Once again many apes strong.

These batteries can be placed in existing structures or in new ones like right next to your local water tower. Just like a water tower is a gravity "water battery" to help during increased demand this gravity "elevatior" battery could also be used during peak demand. The more gravity batteries you have the less the big "pumping station" needs to strain during those peak times. During low peak it can "top off" the gravity batteries. Further more by placing these gravity "elevatior" batteries next to existing structures like watertowers your not making a farm. The structures are spread out leaving less of a footprint. Maintaining, adding, and removing the remote "elevatior" batteries could be a fairly straightforward process unlike a farm structure.

We have lots of options to add capacity without limitation on demand. I dont feel the political and public incentive is there yet.

But hey gas is half what I expected so I obviously don't know what I am rambling on about.