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I'll Direc your TV
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Speaking of the increased cost of..... Everything recently. I feel like I went from making a decent living to not, seemingly overnight.
Pretty much what is happening with everyone. If you're not doing anything, or less of it, and still working you're making a good wage. (not saying you're not making good money, just saying in general). A lot of places increased wages just to keep workers, that is fine and dandy right now, but in 3 months when the costs of everything really goes up, and I mean everything, that bigger wage gets back down to manageable, then low, then barley scraping by.

Kinda back to the original post; if you can get a loan or loans with a fixed rate for X months, I think that is the best security you can get. At least then you know what you are going to have to pay. Consolidate small loans right now (preferably 6 months ago), refinance your current one and get a fixed rate.
 

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Project Antitube
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1,079 Posts
I believe it is going to be worse. All loans being given out right now for homes/property; because people can "afford" them when they stopped traveling and doing things. Most people probably can do extra $X00 payments per month for a short time; but the problem comes in the long term. Those $400 a month payments get pretty stiff when you go back to normal and want start doing what you used to do; and when shit starts needing money, like the $200,000 house you just bought that now needs $4,000. Housing loans are the biggest problem IMO. Auto loans are another separate problem, nobody cares where you got your down payment money from for a new truck, and 75% of those people came up with the cash because of the government handouts like PUI and "stimulus" checks, (all fake money); and they can continue to make their $3-400 a month car payment on their $70,000 truck because of the same fake money; so that will money will dry up; not if, when.

Couple that with the increase in cost of living, think it was like 5.6/5.9% increase for 2022, everything becomes more expensive to do, see, and make. So what you can "afford" right now means nothing.
I can totally see that. I know we are caught up in it. My truck is long paid for, but it's still 6 years old and has 90k on it. My wife's car is 4 years old and hasn't hit 50k yet. In fact, all it has had is oil changes and a cabin air filter change due to chipmunks. We went from spending $700/month on fuel to nearly nothing ($70 maybe? Most to outdoor power equipment) for over a year. Between the automobile payments and the fuel bill we were north of $2000/month outgo for vehicles just on scheduled payments. We've had pretty much nothing other than insurance (which used to be ~$200 month also, but is now under $100). I've been waiting to replace my truck, trying to time it right for price vs features before the greenies ruin them but I feel like it hasn't happened yet. Plus the exact same truck would cost me nearly 50% more now.

I also noticed new car loan rates are not awesome like they used to be. My truck was 1.249% for 63 months. I haven't seen loans like that except through the financing arms and it required you to give up the rebates...

So I've gotten used to having the extra $2200-2400 a month in my pocket but how long will that last? In theory, I'm supposed to be in the office 3 days a week since July but I've been going maybe once per month. My wife is supposed to be in 3 days a week also for the last 3 months, but she's only been going two days. I've put 7,000 miles on my truck in two years, I used to drive at least 1000 a month. Not only did this lack of driving save me on fuel, but it saved me a bunch on preventative maintenance and repairs. At some point we're going to need cars, and to be honest I have only saved a fraction of that $2200/month. Most has gone into other money pits. I assume others did the same.
 

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I'll Direc your TV
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8,873 Posts
I can totally see that. I know we are caught up in it. My truck is long paid for, but it's still 6 years old and has 90k on it. My wife's car is 4 years old and hasn't hit 50k yet. In fact, all it has had is oil changes and a cabin air filter change due to chipmunks. We went from spending $700/month on fuel to nearly nothing ($70 maybe? Most to outdoor power equipment) for over a year. Between the automobile payments and the fuel bill we were north of $2000/month outgo for vehicles just on scheduled payments. We've had pretty much nothing other than insurance (which used to be ~$200 month also, but is now under $100). I've been waiting to replace my truck, trying to time it right for price vs features before the greenies ruin them but I feel like it hasn't happened yet. Plus the exact same truck would cost me nearly 50% more now.

I also noticed new car loan rates are not awesome like they used to be. My truck was 1.249% for 63 months. I haven't seen loans like that except through the financing arms and it required you to give up the rebates...

So I've gotten used to having the extra $2200-2400 a month in my pocket but how long will that last? In theory, I'm supposed to be in the office 3 days a week since July but I've been going maybe once per month. My wife is supposed to be in 3 days a week also for the last 3 months, but she's only been going two days. I've put 7,000 miles on my truck in two years, I used to drive at least 1000 a month. Not only did this lack of driving save me on fuel, but it saved me a bunch on preventative maintenance and repairs. At some point we're going to need cars, and to be honest I have only saved a fraction of that $2200/month. Most has gone into other money pits. I assume others did the same.
That's really it, I mean, saying it's easy to save money if you're not spending it is one thing, and actually doing it is completely different.

I look at it like a bigger house. The bigger house you have, the more shit you'll find to put in it. Same idea with bigger barn/bigger shed/more storage. The bigger space/room you have, you'll always find shit to fill it up with. Before you know it, you've got 15 million random things that you forget you have most of the time. Same thing with saving money; the more money you save, the more shit you'll find to spend it on. Projects you've been putting off cause you wanted to save, honey-do lists that aren't a necessity but now you have the "spare" cash....etc.

I'm in the boat, which I put myself in. Currently in the process of completely remodeling our master bathroom. Turning it from a 13x9 bathroom with 75% of it unused, into two separate rooms. a 5x9 walk in closet, and an 9x8 bathroom. Been wanting to do it for years, and finally got the motivation to do it cause we had "extra" cash. But that "extra" cash wasn't exactly extra, and this remodel is a huge pain in the ass, cause literally everything is being removed and replaced. In reality, we could have done it cheaper and not done the two separate rooms..etc, and saved a lot of money. I'm sure i'll be regretting doing the bathroom when it comes time to do the kitchen, which was the original reason for refinancing our HEL, and come to see we come up short. Probably going to happen. But nothing we can do now, it's either leave the bathroom half finished and only good for storage, or just finish it and be done with it.

Also, this bathroom is lot more fawking work than I figured...which I figured it would be, but you never actually know until you "know"
 

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F-U-CANCER!!!
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5,750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I am definitely enjoying the banter about money. Sadly, I do not do a lot of cool things to be financially produdctive. I work and have worked a lot and am very cheap. When the market failed in 07, I learned a lot about how to survive when chit hits the fan. My wages dropped a lot at the same time I became a parent. So, I learned how to use the housing market to flip houses. Made a good chunk of money and traded a few years of my life for a fairly comfortable nest-egg. Then I found an opportunity to cnc machine parts in my own garage (my lifelong line of work) which took me from a one income home back to two (promised ex wife she could be a stay at home mom)... When this downturn hits, I want to do another real-estate push. But I will try to move more houses with less contact from me which should net similar profit for less work?
The idea of investing all available recourses for a reliable 8% return sure is appealing, but makes it hard for me to have the liquid assets to do the real-estate. Sure did clean up well on my retirement moneys last year...
 

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I'll Direc your TV
Joined
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8,873 Posts
I am definitely enjoying the banter about money. Sadly, I do not do a lot of cool things to be financially produdctive. I work and have worked a lot and am very cheap. When the market failed in 07, I learned a lot about how to survive when chit hits the fan. My wages dropped a lot at the same time I became a parent. So, I learned how to use the housing market to flip houses. Made a good chunk of money and traded a few years of my life for a fairly comfortable nest-egg. Then I found an opportunity to cnc machine parts in my own garage (my lifelong line of work) which took me from a one income home back to two (promised ex wife she could be a stay at home mom)... When this downturn hits, I want to do another real-estate push. But I will try to move more houses with less contact from me which should net similar profit for less work?
The idea of investing all available recourses for a reliable 8% return sure is appealing, but makes it hard for me to have the liquid assets to do the real-estate. Sure did clean up well on my retirement moneys last year...
I make side cash like most other people, buying and flipping just about anything. I make enough cash to be our "play money".

Haven't done much in the past month or so, probably wont have time to until the remodels are done.
 

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F-U-CANCER!!!
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I make side cash like most other people, buying and flipping just about anything. I make enough cash to be our "play money".

Haven't done much in the past month or so, probably wont have time to until the remodels are done.
Yup, been doing that since I was a teen. So doing it with houses just took it to a new level.
 

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Yooper In Training
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7,428 Posts
I need to start making side cash....
All my hobbies and projects just cost me money 🤣 I guess I've made some good home improvements and am upping the value in the process, but I'm not planning to sell it soooooo......
 

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Gustafson
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10,177 Posts
All my hobbies and projects just cost me money 🤣 I guess I've made some good home improvements and am upping the value in the process, but I'm not planning to sell it soooooo......
Same here. :ROFLMAO:
 

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Project Antitube
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1,079 Posts
So when it comes to flipping things...

I look at it, and most of the time it isn't worth it to me. This is after I factor in the carrying costs. So let's say you base everything on a 8% carrying cost. That means to beat the market you need to be making $700/month per hundred thousand on top of your labor to make a "flip" worth it. How much is your labor worth to you? The longer the widget sits in your purview the more time that is wasted of yours taking care of it.

Let's say you buy pontoon boats in the fall and sell them in the spring. It's been something I've been contemplating doing for a long time. I have the acreage to let them sit and I have a pond for testing. Let's say you buy them for $3k at Labor Day a little dirty with a few broken things and sell them for $6k at Memorial Day spit polished up. That means you need $200 just to carry the cost of holding it for 8 months. That's ignoring all the other problems like risk from damage, space, winterizing, etc. That leaves you with $2800 to play with. Seems like a lot. But you're going to have to clean up the beater. Replace some vinyl. What if you have to pull all the furniture to put down new carpet? What happens when you open up the lower unit and find milk? What about all the little things that nickel and dime you to death like a new fire extinguisher, a new battery, etc. Can it be worth it? Yes, but how much time are you going to spend marketing said boat and deal with toonkickers? You can easily end up with a couple hundred hours into it and next thing you know you're working McDonald's wages. To combat that problem now you're wanting a wider spread and suddenly your "work" dries up because there are a hundred other people doing the same thing as you... but they don't value their time as much or are more careless.
 

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I'll Direc your TV
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8,873 Posts
So when it comes to flipping things...

I look at it, and most of the time it isn't worth it to me. This is after I factor in the carrying costs. So let's say you base everything on a 8% carrying cost. That means to beat the market you need to be making $700/month per hundred thousand on top of your labor to make a "flip" worth it. How much is your labor worth to you? The longer the widget sits in your purview the more time that is wasted of yours taking care of it.

Let's say you buy pontoon boats in the fall and sell them in the spring. It's been something I've been contemplating doing for a long time. I have the acreage to let them sit and I have a pond for testing. Let's say you buy them for $3k at Labor Day a little dirty with a few broken things and sell them for $6k at Memorial Day spit polished up. That means you need $200 just to carry the cost of holding it for 8 months. That's ignoring all the other problems like risk from damage, space, winterizing, etc. That leaves you with $2800 to play with. Seems like a lot. But you're going to have to clean up the beater. Replace some vinyl. What if you have to pull all the furniture to put down new carpet? What happens when you open up the lower unit and find milk? What about all the little things that nickel and dime you to death like a new fire extinguisher, a new battery, etc. Can it be worth it? Yes, but how much time are you going to spend marketing said boat and deal with toonkickers? You can easily end up with a couple hundred hours into it and next thing you know you're working McDonald's wages. To combat that problem now you're wanting a wider spread and suddenly your "work" dries up because there are a hundred other people doing the same thing as you... but they don't value their time as much or are more careless.
It's a fine line of doing it to make money, and making money to do it.

Part of it is, because you enjoy fixing stuff, and myself I do find it enjoyable. I also pick and choose what I "feel" like working on or spending time going to get/haggling on price. I don't generally buy things that have a high carrying cost, coupled with the money I use to flip small things is all "play cash". I'm not taking from the regular bank account or spare account, so if I have $300 wrapped up into say a trailer, for a month, i'm not actually out any money. Unless something catastrophic happens, you'll make that money back.

Also why I generally don't go much higher into costs for flips. I'll buy vehicles here, campers, etc. But nothing that is going to eat into a regular bank account and that money would be "missed". I'm also never going to make retirement money on doing the small flips; which i'm fine with; that's not why I do it.

To me that's the definition of smart money.
 

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F-U-CANCER!!!
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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Flipping stuff works better for some than others. And there are always going to be challenging flips. Yes, you have to somewhat enjoy it. I flip mostly things I do not mind monkeying around with at the time. I have flipped everything from atv's, cars, jeeps and golf cart's to houses and property. Most money was from houses, most fun was random from them all. The way to make real money to me involves trying to do it like production (part of my line of work). You focus on one type of product and do all of them you can. Then you look for people with similar interests and coordinate with them. Having flipped hundreds of subarus, I got to where I had others do most of the repairs. It allowed me more time to buy and sell them while someone else took care of the fixing part.
 

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I'll Direc your TV
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8,873 Posts
Flipping stuff works better for some than others. And there are always going to be challenging flips. Yes, you have to somewhat enjoy it. I flip mostly things I do not mind monkeying around with at the time. I have flipped everything from atv's, cars, jeeps and golf cart's to houses and property. Most money was from houses, most fun was random from them all. The way to make real money to me involves trying to do it like production (part of my line of work). You focus on one type of product and do all of them you can. Then you look for people with similar interests and coordinate with them. Having flipped hundreds of subarus, I got to where I had others do most of the repairs. It allowed me more time to buy and sell them while someone else took care of the fixing part.
All different kinds of ways to "flip" stuff for cash. Stocks are essentially the same thing; in a sense. cryptocurrency as well, though instead of fixing something, you're basically waiting to see if goes up in value.

There seems to be only one real way to make your money make money, and that's to spend it. Whether it's spending it on tangible items to flip, investing in stocks, or buying cryptocurrency. Leaving it sit in a bank account isn't going to generate any amount of money to make it worth not touching, IMO
 

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Project Antitube
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I've tried to do work on the cash-only repair side. Largely people bring what they want fixed to me. This solves my negotiation with tirekickers problem. I'm not selling something someone can say "I saw this on Facespace Marketfarce for <crap>" here and they waste my time. They already committed that they were willing to pay because they have something broken they want fixed versus going and buying something else.

My rates are usually:
A buck a minute. 1 hour minimum. If you want it done now, you pay setup costs also. If you want it fixed at some other point in time then you don't pay setup costs. I tell them this is because there will likely be some other person that is willing to pay setup costs for something similar.

I have found that around here no one flinches at my costs. I also found that I can tell people I'm too busy to work on it if I don't want to do it and they're not upset. I feel kind of bad sometimes because I know no one else wants to do the work for a reasonable sum but I'm really not interested. Usually because it's a crap job or working on something I don't want to work on. Sometimes I tell people that if I were them I'd try to sell whatever it is broken and go buy something else because it really isn't worth it to pay someone to fix it. But a lot of people are either emotionally attached to it or are fully invested in the sunk cost fallacy.

I know a local guy that does similar and he says people get angry at him sometimes because he charges $120/hr and he won't always take on the work. Well, he makes his living doing it, this is a side gig for me.

There is a lady that really wants me to spray her 2006 Ford Escape. It's mostly body filler at this point. I told her it'd cost about $2k (it's red) and it'd still be falling apart ugly in a couple years.
 

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Premium Member
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Does anyone know of a good budgeting app? I currently keep track of a monthly/weekly budget in Excel on my work computer. So it's not something I can access whenever I want to. I'd love to have something on my phone where I can see things in real time.
 

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Project Antitube
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I think a lot of people still use Mint. I know I got skeered and my tinfoil hat forced me back to using spreadsheets to track expenses so I don't use Mint, Quicken, Googs, or anything else.

Sadly, I do a terrible job of budgeting. I just realized that my wife quit putting her paycheck into our shared bank account... looks like it stopped going in 3 months ago when she switched jobs. The only thing we fight about is money so I'll probably let it ride. haha. Hopefully it's not going to Sierra Club or some shit.
 

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Gustafson
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I think a lot of people still use Mint. I know I got skeered and my tinfoil hat forced me back to using spreadsheets to track expenses so I don't use Mint, Quicken, Googs, or anything else.

Sadly, I do a terrible job of budgeting. I just realized that my wife quit putting her paycheck into our shared bank account... looks like it stopped going in 3 months ago when she switched jobs. The only thing we fight about is money so I'll probably let it ride. haha. Hopefully it's not going to Sierra Club or some shit.
If I didn't have a shared bank account, I'd have a lot more money. :ROFLMAO:
 

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I'm not old, honest...
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30,654 Posts
Now I am the exact opposite Mis is the saver and I am the "beggar" getting something approved through finance department takes an act of congress, but it can happen there are just a ton of hoops to jump through.

RBB
Me too. My wife is the super saver. A while back she bought some puffer thing that blows germ killer into the air - or something. Out of curiosity I asked what it cost? Her answer - "a lot less than one of your tires". LOL Lesson learned - never question what the wife spends.
 
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