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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This thread is being put together by request . For those that do not know me i am a 30 year veteran of the towing ind . I am wreckmaster level 23 certified operator .

The following information and photos are here to help the occasional user of winches and recovery equimpent for safe use of said items .

First and formost , do NOT underestimate what your doing . Lets use a 4,000 lb rig as a base . Because the rig weighs 4,000 lbs does not mean that a recovery strap rated for 4,000 will recovery this vehicle when it is stuck .

If using a winch the winch should be rated for a minimum of 8,000 lbs to recover a 4,000 lb rig . The reason is the pull required to free a stuck vehicle will far exceed the weight . Twice the weight is recommended as a minimum , a winch supplies a stead even pull unlike a recovery strap .

If this same rig is to be freed with a recovery strap 16,000 lb strap would be bare minimum . The reasoning here is that a jerk rather then a steady pull will be applied there for creating a much larger amount of force then a winch .

I personally do not recommend purchasing any thing less then a 3 " quality recovery strap . 3" strap will be rated at or near 30,000lb depending on there quality . This is the maximum for that strap when new . Continued use will reduce its strenght over time there for i highly recommend this as a minimum .

If you wheel a full size rig that can easily weigh 6,000 + lbs then do your self a favor , purchase a 6" strap 48,000 to 55,000 lb rating . Common price is less then $100.00 It will last much longer then a 3 " , it will not break when you need it most and it will save lives when used .

Clevis is an important item to carry , DO NOT use a pin style clevis . Use a thread in clevis like the one in the photo 3/4 inch minimum on this item .

Threaded shackle and 3" strap



proper connection , make sure you and the rig you hook to have a solid hook point , do not turst the other person that there bumper is solid , tow hook and so on . 2 bolts grade 8 3/8 or larger thread size are minimum to secure a tow point for a lite weight rig .



Do not connect 2 straps together with a shackle , this is death waiting to happen . The schakle is a lethal weapon if ether strap breaks .

THIS PHOTO IS A NO NO do not use this method nor be around any one that does use it .



2 straps may be hooked together to gain lenght if needed . this can be done with an ordinary stick creating a solid connection and a much safer method . this stick weighs less then the bolt in the clevis let alone the clevis its self . The purpose of the stick is simple to get the straps back apart .




Winching . I strongly recommend synthetic rope , i have used synthtic and broken it as well . It is much lighter to work with , does not bur and injure your hands and # 1 thing , it does not fly when broken . It falls quickly and safely to the ground . If you are using wire rope aka cable then place a blanket , coat or floor mat over the cable near the center of its lenght before winching . This will reduce the potential of a broken wire rope causing injury or vehicle damage . They can be very deadly .

The point , or open end of the hook on your winch line should point up , this will force the hook downward if a tree saver of hook fails .

winch blanket



Unless you have a hell of a lot of experience please do not argue this post . Please feel free to add " good " information as i certainly have not covered every thing here . There are several injuries and some times death every year from the lack of knowledge in this matter . If you wish to argue with me please show your credentials or source of information. I am not the king of recovery and would be glad to see new ideas . Above all lets NOT lead new people in an unsafe direction .

Bigger is better when it comes to recovery , your better to over estimate then to come up short .



If your new to this sport , or recovery please take some good advise . With 30 years under my belt i still learn every day . I hope this information saves some one a hard lesson in life .

M L Farley aka Grandman
Wreck master ceritifed
Operator ID # 97496
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ebs said:
Never seen two straps connected like that using a stick, does it ever snap the stick?
I've always interlooped the two straps and used a small stick at the joint so its easier to seperate them.
thanks for pointing out what i had done , wrestling 3 grand kids while i was trying to get this done . Ill repost a proper photo when i get time .
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
jeepfreak81 said:
g-man PMing you with a question...

edit nm Ebs caught it too... I wanted to be sure as I didnt want to question your knowledge on it in public in a thread that said don't question it :sonicjay:
It says " dont argue " question every one at all times you will live much longer . Yes i screwed up the set up , trying to get it done in 2 minutes seems no ones life was at stake and it was just for photos . Ill get a correct photo of 2 straps together and repost .

Wise guy ( ME ) looking for a dumb shit award :tonka:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
RICK said:
Please explain the use of a chain,( i.e. anchor or pivot point) and if you have a link, the ways of identifying grades of chains.
For example; the chain that came with the Warn recovery accessory kit.

Some explanation of the differences in straps; i.e. a "jerk" strap vs "tow" strap vs air "sling" strap.

I witnessed an incident where a chrome front tow hook literally snapped in the middle of the bend from it's front bumper mount and rocketed through the back end of the pulling CJ, and a spare battery in the rear, into the rear seat.
Rick you make a boat load of good points , lets start with chain . In the tow trucks i will not use some one elses chain , i dont know what they have . All chain is NOT the same grade . Like bolts theres cheap shit and then theres grade 70 or grade 80 chain . If you are buying a chain the store will know what is what . If your looking at a chain you all ready have or some one elses check the links they may say on them 70 or 80 right on the link then you know you have good quality grade .

HOOKS , well chrome is a good indicator that its more show then work . unfortunately there is no gurantee some times . Look at there tow hook , if appears to be bent , dont pull on it . check that atleast 2 bolts secure it .

My knowledge between different types of straps is not good enough to explain them . I purchase a strap for its intended use , i do not know of a way to indentify a straps intended use and have not seen that information on the strap other then military straps which often state " not for lift operations " and i do think that has more to do with the " certification " of the strap then its actual strength . Jerk strap and tow strap to me are one in the same so long as it DOES NOT have attached hooks . Rating of the strap is the larger concern to me .
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yetti please do post them .

When i ask every one not to argue i simple mean dont tell me that a rachet strap is fine to jerk a jeep with . Feel free to add any helpful info to this post . If said info disputes what i have said post it any way . Just show the source of this information to be credible .

I assume your talking about the pull calculator such as wheel depth and how much resistence that creates ? that would be good to post .
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Icebreaker88 said:
G-man,

What about using Items like tree savers and shackles.
I read somewhere about always put the hook of the cable on the pin of the shackle.

Correct me if im wrong
Notice the 2nd photo , the clevis is set inline , other words your not pulling it apart by pulling on the two sides . You sould be pulling against the screw in pin and the center of the horse shoe of the clevis .
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ebs said:
Never seen two straps connected like that using a stick, does it ever snap the stick?
I've always interlooped the two straps and used a small stick at the joint so its easier to seperate them.

Here's an illustration:
I just noticed your illustration is different and appears more simple then what i have used in the past . It would provied just as safe of a connection as well .

NOTE this is not somthing we would use in the towing business but i have set it up on the trail .
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Kawierider said:
Grandman,
Do you insist on the screw type shackles for fear of the cotter pin shearing out of the pin type if the load gets offset?
its easy for the cotter pin to fall out , all so easy for a shackle to turn and put a load on the sides of it . then your trusting that cotter pin with your life . a threaded clevis is simple much stronger and safer .


Mike , i know of no reason that hook must be on the pin rather then the center of the clevis . Main point is not to pull on the sides .
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Kawierider said:
Here is an EXCELLENT article on offroad recovery. It is from Bill Vista over at pirate4x4. This has many excerpts from the military recovery manual and other quality sources of information like wire and strap suppliers.

Also has the charts that were mentioned above.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/
well damn that would of saved alot of time . Very well done post . Thanks for the link .
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Welding on D rings . I dont have a problem with welding them on " IF " it is done by a competent welder . Some one who knows how to get the proper penetration on the weld . A weld can look pretty and have no strenght .

If this is a tube bumper , like 2x6 retangular steel then no dont weld then on the face of it . You would want to bolt all the way through the bumper so both sides of the tube was holding .

whiterhino , i seldom frequent other boards so im not sure of your post you mention !
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Deaner , the same principles apply but theres more to it . If you use a block and double your line yes you reduce the load on the winch my 50% only if the lines are running straight like this

-----------------
-----------------

If the line is running at a < angle then its less then 50 % reduction .

Lets say your pulling out a larger truck with your lighter rig . Use a dead man and here is how to set that up .

put the block or pulley on the stuck rig , your winch line goes out to the block then back near you but hook it to a tree of other solid object . This method will give you nearly double the winch power plus the the tree will hold 50 % of the load being pulled . This way you dont drag your rig forward . If a second pulley is needed that goes to the tree and the winch line goes to the stuck rig once again . stuck rig has one pulley and the hook attached at that point . Your winch is 4 times the pulling power and your rig is only holding 1/4 of the load .
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Ill take some photos of rigging a dead man set up , mulitple pulley set ups tomorrow to post .

To often i see a rig tied to another rig when a deadman set up would be easier to do . Im guessing not to many know what i mean . Picture is worth a thousand words they say .:gman:
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
amc78cj7 said:
Very nice thread marv. I have heard that it is better to attach tow points with Grade 5 rather than Grade 8 bolts because when pushed grade 5 will stretch while grade 8 will just clean shear off. Any comments? It's always concerned me some, so I use one grade 5 and one grade 8 on each point.
I am not an expert in bolts , i am not afriad of a grade 5 or 8 bolt . Grade 2 ( no hash marks ) are junk .
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
KaiserJeep said:
only thing I would like to mention is when hooking 2 straps together with a stick in the middle, the stick is still very dangerous. I had a stick go through the back window of my truck, smash my GPS, and smash my windshield. Hooking 2 straps together should be avoided at all cost. When possible, use a winch safely. Its a little slower, but its a lot safer than jearking on a strap.

I had never heard of this happening before , it just goes to show what i said earlier . Theres plenty to go wrong with a well layed plan .

swamp jeep made a great point too , never hook to a trailer ball .
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
Yetti said:
sorry I missed that. I must have skipped over it the other day when the thread started.
I finished up the 2/3 training today. so the next level will be out to our shop in the fall. the teacher was outstanding for his knowlage of recovery operations.
I ran into issues with Donnie some years ago . Donnie Cruise was the orginal wreck master . He and i met up in Baltimore several years ago , at that time a few towing brains including Donnie and I were brain storming the removal of a sunken barge above the Niagra falls . Lets just say He and I didnt see eye to eye and apparently no one else liked his calculations on the barge as its still sunk there :sonicjay:

Some of there instructors are excellent but its a crap shoot with them some times . While they have a lot of neat tricks and good information , dont challenge them , They will never admit when there off on something .

Before i got on the boards or the internet i decided to shrink my company about 50% , back away from the big shot big shit work and settled back to dumb ass ******* . Its a more enjoyable way of life :hacksaw:
 

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Discussion Starter · #67 ·
2" strap is somthing i have never used . I dont even know the rating on them . I can see your point about the stretch .

You mention jeep to jeep but often the larger rig will do the pulling so if some one with a full size is near by and he hooks onto the strap you could easily see a 16,000 lb force put on the strap . You mentioned 20,000 lb rating , thats new a used strap i think you would be really pushing the straps limits .

2" can be safe if it is inspected often and you dont let some one with a full size go nuts with it . I hate to call thinks close , im an over kill sort of guy :tonka:
 

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Discussion Starter · #94 ·
FireMedicDave said:
Okay... I want to take a step toward safety using my winch.

I'm thinking about changing my steel cable to an AmSteel Synthetic line. I have a Warn 9000i and thinking I should go with 3/8 line or is 5/16 alright (almost $100.00 more)?

Does anyone know if I can fit 125' of synthetic line or would I lose some footage by going with synthetic (current steel line is 125')?
Look up on there site and it will tell you the rating for there different size lines . From experience you can put more synthetic rope on a spool then you can wire rope . So if you had 125 of wire you can put 140 -250 ' or synthetic . It spools up much nicer , does not damage its self when it cross's over its self . make sure to run a haws aluminum fairlead with synthetic rope .

I have broke synthetic too , i can attest to that fact it does not fly like wire . the 2 brokens ends were less then 5' apart when it broke .
 

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Discussion Starter · #97 ·
Just read the whole thread lots of good info. Lots to think about. Does anyone have info/links to share on creating solid recovery points? I've got some 10,000 lb tow hooks bolted to the frame of a fullsize dodge with 1/2" grade 8 bolts-after reading this it seems to be a fairly dangerous setup. What about those shackles that fit in a 2" receiver hitch? I see these all over the place but how safe are they?
First off id like to say any recovery is dangerous . Keep kids and adults out of the way . There is no need to have every one close to watch .

Your hooks with grade 8 bolts sound like a resonable set up .

your question on the reciever set up is also a resonable safe set up . There is all ways the question of how well is the reciever hook to the truck its self . all the bolts been put in ? what grade bolts ?

It is unresonable to think you could get all them answers before pulling on some one . There for use good judgment , it if is a rusted out hulk , assume its dangerous and take precautions .
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
Great info folks!:rock:
A club member (also a qualified welder)
is fabbing a rear reciever mount for the used
Mile Marker 9,000 lb. winch I bought.
Looking forward to using the info. here
to do things safely!:rock:

2 Questions:
1. Should I replace the factory bolts (6 of them) that
attach the the reciever to the truck frame with grade 8?
2. Pin rating, I see no markings on the "regular" pin or
my "locking" pin that I use with my trailer hitch (tow 30'
travel trailer 7,600 GVW).

Hope I'm not asking this question in the wrong place.
But, I thought it was as I've seen other winches on reciever mounts
and wondered about the strength of the reciever and the pin holding
the enitre load. I'm not planning any Crazy winching operations.
The quesiton here is what reciever do you have from the factory . what is its rating ? For the most part do a visual inspection , as long as that reciever is not badly rusted id say your in good shape to use it .

The pin for the reciever , if it is an actual reciever pin and not just a bolt stuck in there your fine . I have never seen one break .
 
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