we are trying to do the best job we can at making a park for the people. we want to make it as much fun for everyone, while challenging at the same time. we would like to hear your opinions, suggestions of what you want, what you thought was fun, or what you didn like. lets hear what you guys want. we will try our best to get something for everyone. hope to see everyone very soon. May 16th is the opening weekend, and we will be having trail rides before then.
rocks and valleys suggestions....
lososjoyride00
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ron and i wanted to do the lockers suggested, or something along that line, but jeff insisted on having requiredto try and cut down on the ppl in a stock jeep tryin to go down the python and breaking or getting stuck in the middle, and we would be busy recovering rigs all day every day. i agree with the deep nothced trials, and will suggest it again. we have the good majority of our park modified how we want it, so now we can start slowing down and spending more time on other suggestions. Jim, i will seriously try to get a grooved, holy lay on your side trail. i like to push my stuff too, but there are way more rigs like bierdgr, or however you say his name on 33s that arent experts that pay just as much as we, or you do anyways, so that is our prime goal. we are tryin guys, and please be patient, we'll get you something to bend some metal on.
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I agree about python....but trails like frame bender can easily be done without lockers. I actually took mine out of 4x4 to drive that one so it would be more fun.
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2,336 Posts
I agree with the "Lockers Recommended" idea- So what if you get stuck trying? I noticed more than one Ranger wandering the park with a strap, and there are lots of people with winches.
I think if people knew there was someone out there to pull them out and the sign said "recommended" I think that smaller jeeps would have a ton of fun, and challenge themselves more if the trails didn't say "required"- I know that in our group there was a YJ on 33" tires that was open, and with some encouragement, he went almost everywhere the rest of us did, and he had a blast.
FWIW, We had a great time up there on 35" tires with lockers, and there were quite a few things that bring the pucker factor at that size. It's a great park, and I love the fact that when NatureboyNate got too comfortable on the trails, Ron broke out the bulldozer and fixed it. :teehee:
I think if people knew there was someone out there to pull them out and the sign said "recommended" I think that smaller jeeps would have a ton of fun, and challenge themselves more if the trails didn't say "required"- I know that in our group there was a YJ on 33" tires that was open, and with some encouragement, he went almost everywhere the rest of us did, and he had a blast.
FWIW, We had a great time up there on 35" tires with lockers, and there were quite a few things that bring the pucker factor at that size. It's a great park, and I love the fact that when NatureboyNate got too comfortable on the trails, Ron broke out the bulldozer and fixed it. :teehee:
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32,107 Posts
Eric,
I hope I'm not giving the impression that I am complaining but rather I was trying to point out that the park is quite diversified. I like to make this comparison since R&V is an offshoot of Snowsnake: To be a well rounded attraction, a park needs to have from the mild to wild. A ski resort needs a mix of green bunny hills all the way to a double black diamond. Same with Cedar point. There is something for everyone. That's the way it should be.
I also like the numbering system. Here is something I put together for GLFWDA 5 or 6 years ago. It's been changed a little bit since then but it give a person the ability to make a judgement on how their vehicle fits into the recommended requirements. It can be found here.
http://www.glfwda.org/index.php?page=trail-ratings
It used to be a downloadable document but somebody changed it. Here is the text:
Each trail has a rating of 1 to 5. Although subjective - what is a level 4 to a novice off-roader can be like a simple jaunt for a veteran - the scale is a pretty good indicator of the driving skill level and equipment needed in order to enjoy yourself on the trail. Level 1 trails are considered to be the easiest, while level 5 trails are the hardest and require experienced drivers and well equipped vehicles.
One (1)
Stock Run. This level is for the novice off-roader. 4 Wheel drive will be needed occasionally for a few "tough" spots. Bring a camera and the family. At this level everyone can relax and enjoy the ride.
Two (2)
Stock Run. For the little more experienced 'wheeler. 4 wheel drive will be needed a lot. Stock vehicles with stock tires are OK. Stock tires will be at their limit. Still an enjoyable ride, and a great way to climb into the 4x4 sport! Small hill climbs, shallow mud, loose sand and shallow water crossings should be expected.
Three (3)
Moderate Run. Action-packed and challenging, for moderately experienced 'wheelers. 32"+ aggressive treads are needed, rear locking differentials are helpful. Rocky steep terrain with deeper mud and water. Driver should expect to get stuck and require some spotting.
Four (4)
Advanced Run. High-intensity, adrenaline-pumping fun! For experienced wheelers only! 32"+ tires. One locker is a must. Dual lockers are recommended. A winch and tree strap is recommended. These trails require a co-driver / spotter and heavy concentration. Large rocks, deep mud with rocks and steep hills. Team efforts are required.
Five (5)
Extreme Run. This is the real deal for experienced off-roaders! Front and rear lockers are required. You must have a winch and tree straps, 35" or taller tires, and little regard for your rig's body panels. You can expect cosmetic and mechanical damage on some of these trails. These trails require a co-driver / spotter and your undivided attention. Bring a camera and expect to get dirty!
I had pilferred it from the Superlift Park in Hot Springs and then modified it. This is their original;
Trail Ratings
Level One
This level is for the novice off-roader. Four-wheel dive will be needed occasionally for a few "tough" spots. Bring a camera and the family. At this level everyone can relax and enjoy the ride. Level Two
For the little more experienced 'wheeler. Four-wheel drive will be needed a lot. Stock vehicles with stock tires are OK. Still an enjoyable ride, and a great way to climb into the 4x4 sport! Level Three
Action-packed and challenging, for moderately experienced 'wheelers. At least 32" aggressive treads are needed, rear locking differentials are recommended. Level 3 requires more concentration than levels 1 and 2. Level Four
High-intensity, adrenaline-pumping fun! For experienced wheelers only! At least 33" tires and front/rear lockers are a must. A winch and tree strap is recommended. These trails require a co-driver / spotter and heavy concentration. Level Five
This is the real deal for experienced off-roaders! Nobody gets on a Level 5 trail without being locked front and rear. Your must have a winch and tree straps, 36" or taller rubber, and little regard for your rig's body panels. You can expect cosmetic and mechanical damage on some of these trails. These trails require a co-driver / spotter and your undivided attention. Bring a camera and a clean change of underwear.
Hope this clarifies,
Jim
I hope I'm not giving the impression that I am complaining but rather I was trying to point out that the park is quite diversified. I like to make this comparison since R&V is an offshoot of Snowsnake: To be a well rounded attraction, a park needs to have from the mild to wild. A ski resort needs a mix of green bunny hills all the way to a double black diamond. Same with Cedar point. There is something for everyone. That's the way it should be.
I also like the numbering system. Here is something I put together for GLFWDA 5 or 6 years ago. It's been changed a little bit since then but it give a person the ability to make a judgement on how their vehicle fits into the recommended requirements. It can be found here.
http://www.glfwda.org/index.php?page=trail-ratings
It used to be a downloadable document but somebody changed it. Here is the text:
Each trail has a rating of 1 to 5. Although subjective - what is a level 4 to a novice off-roader can be like a simple jaunt for a veteran - the scale is a pretty good indicator of the driving skill level and equipment needed in order to enjoy yourself on the trail. Level 1 trails are considered to be the easiest, while level 5 trails are the hardest and require experienced drivers and well equipped vehicles.
One (1)
Stock Run. This level is for the novice off-roader. 4 Wheel drive will be needed occasionally for a few "tough" spots. Bring a camera and the family. At this level everyone can relax and enjoy the ride.
Two (2)
Stock Run. For the little more experienced 'wheeler. 4 wheel drive will be needed a lot. Stock vehicles with stock tires are OK. Stock tires will be at their limit. Still an enjoyable ride, and a great way to climb into the 4x4 sport! Small hill climbs, shallow mud, loose sand and shallow water crossings should be expected.
Three (3)
Moderate Run. Action-packed and challenging, for moderately experienced 'wheelers. 32"+ aggressive treads are needed, rear locking differentials are helpful. Rocky steep terrain with deeper mud and water. Driver should expect to get stuck and require some spotting.
Four (4)
Advanced Run. High-intensity, adrenaline-pumping fun! For experienced wheelers only! 32"+ tires. One locker is a must. Dual lockers are recommended. A winch and tree strap is recommended. These trails require a co-driver / spotter and heavy concentration. Large rocks, deep mud with rocks and steep hills. Team efforts are required.
Five (5)
Extreme Run. This is the real deal for experienced off-roaders! Front and rear lockers are required. You must have a winch and tree straps, 35" or taller tires, and little regard for your rig's body panels. You can expect cosmetic and mechanical damage on some of these trails. These trails require a co-driver / spotter and your undivided attention. Bring a camera and expect to get dirty!
I had pilferred it from the Superlift Park in Hot Springs and then modified it. This is their original;
Trail Ratings
Level One
This level is for the novice off-roader. Four-wheel dive will be needed occasionally for a few "tough" spots. Bring a camera and the family. At this level everyone can relax and enjoy the ride. Level Two
For the little more experienced 'wheeler. Four-wheel drive will be needed a lot. Stock vehicles with stock tires are OK. Still an enjoyable ride, and a great way to climb into the 4x4 sport! Level Three
Action-packed and challenging, for moderately experienced 'wheelers. At least 32" aggressive treads are needed, rear locking differentials are recommended. Level 3 requires more concentration than levels 1 and 2. Level Four
High-intensity, adrenaline-pumping fun! For experienced wheelers only! At least 33" tires and front/rear lockers are a must. A winch and tree strap is recommended. These trails require a co-driver / spotter and heavy concentration. Level Five
This is the real deal for experienced off-roaders! Nobody gets on a Level 5 trail without being locked front and rear. Your must have a winch and tree straps, 36" or taller rubber, and little regard for your rig's body panels. You can expect cosmetic and mechanical damage on some of these trails. These trails require a co-driver / spotter and your undivided attention. Bring a camera and a clean change of underwear.
Hope this clarifies,
Jim
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420 Posts
The point system is a great idea, I haven't been down the python, and others, usually I'm wandering around alone, cause I can't go where the bigger rigs go. It's mainly I'm not sure whats ahead and don't want to end up out there in a predictament without help, sure I have a winch, and that only works forward, but I want to be safe too. I have been down all the lesser trails. I would chalenge myself more if I knew I could get through and no I don't want to break down on a hard trail and not get out. Or cause a jamup. I'm a local and want to enjoy this great place as much as possible. I've heard this from many I've stopped to talk with the past few times.
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420 Posts
Hey whiterhino, just wanted to say a jeep on 33's is no comparison to many that come up. I haven't had the privalage to say hi yet and hardcore is there for people like me. When several total there rigs Rubicon for example or a experianced ranger rolls over on a trail that I'm told I can go through that makes me a little nervous I'm learning and have gone down the easy and intermediate all right, and a few black locker requires also. there is tons of wheelers up here, and only a few that would go there. I would never take a newer vehicle down most or a larger truck myself. I enjoy the wood runs the best and even the green horn, pack a lunch to some is challenging, A fullsize truck even would get some damage on those. There was some others there around the mud area and now there is that have been beefed up with tires that I can't get through and large rocks I can't get over, so I've lost a few trails I can't go through. There is mostly stock vehicles up here and we all want to enjoy too. We can't afford to go to other places, out of state parks and such so our backyard R and V is all we have. We all have to start somewhere and my little 94yj 2.5 has to be it for some time.
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32,107 Posts
Beardiedrg,
I dare say you can do a lot more than you give yourself credit for. Large tires get you over large obstacles that will get you high centered or catch a dif. Other than that, they give you basically the same traction with an equal width tire. In other words, a 12" wide 33" will get the same traction as a 12" wide 40" tire. It's just what ground clearance you have. I've been wheeling a long time and have wheeled on about every tire size between 31 and 40. I've also wheeled open difs and locked difs. If I were to look at the numbering system I noted above, I would say there are a total of 4 "#5" rated trails. Winch hill, the rock wall, the rocks in the playground and the big log crawl. Everything else can be done with a single locker or less & a 33-35" tire. Half of those on a 32-33" tire. Sure, you might have to take the easier line but it's doable with a spotter.
Take note that 3's and 4's recommend a spotter. This makes a world of difference. And, I don't care what rating you are at, I never recommend wheeling alone. The last time I wheeled alone I was exploring at the mounds. Was in a simple location but lost reverse. Took about an hour to get out of something that was 30 seconds away.
I also don't see where there are more than a couple trails there that would give a jeep body damage. Bigger trucks, yes. Jeeps, no. I have yet to hit my body or rub my roll cage.
IIRC, the rubicon that rolled ran up a tree and flopped backwards, as did shawn at OSTC. It's due to driver error. Shawn will tell you that. I've seen people stuck where they shouldn't be, flop where they shouldn't have and do all sorts of crazy stuff. Usually it's due more to a bonehead move than vehicle capability. I watched a guy barrell roll down a hill with a better built rig than mine. I felt I could idle it, he hammered it and when he got out of control, he couldn't recover.
My point is, Ron has created a great mix. I think it's a really good blend. Now he just needs to add more of the same, at all levels.
I'll tell you what, the next time I will be there, which will probably be mid-late August you are welcome to run with us. I will take time to help you get through some of the areas that give you concern. No ridiculing, and no egging you into areas that you shouldn't go. But if you really want to learn the limitations of your rig without the fear of "how am I going to get out of this?", the offer stands. By the way, no mud.:sonicjay:
I dare say you can do a lot more than you give yourself credit for. Large tires get you over large obstacles that will get you high centered or catch a dif. Other than that, they give you basically the same traction with an equal width tire. In other words, a 12" wide 33" will get the same traction as a 12" wide 40" tire. It's just what ground clearance you have. I've been wheeling a long time and have wheeled on about every tire size between 31 and 40. I've also wheeled open difs and locked difs. If I were to look at the numbering system I noted above, I would say there are a total of 4 "#5" rated trails. Winch hill, the rock wall, the rocks in the playground and the big log crawl. Everything else can be done with a single locker or less & a 33-35" tire. Half of those on a 32-33" tire. Sure, you might have to take the easier line but it's doable with a spotter.
Take note that 3's and 4's recommend a spotter. This makes a world of difference. And, I don't care what rating you are at, I never recommend wheeling alone. The last time I wheeled alone I was exploring at the mounds. Was in a simple location but lost reverse. Took about an hour to get out of something that was 30 seconds away.
I also don't see where there are more than a couple trails there that would give a jeep body damage. Bigger trucks, yes. Jeeps, no. I have yet to hit my body or rub my roll cage.
IIRC, the rubicon that rolled ran up a tree and flopped backwards, as did shawn at OSTC. It's due to driver error. Shawn will tell you that. I've seen people stuck where they shouldn't be, flop where they shouldn't have and do all sorts of crazy stuff. Usually it's due more to a bonehead move than vehicle capability. I watched a guy barrell roll down a hill with a better built rig than mine. I felt I could idle it, he hammered it and when he got out of control, he couldn't recover.
My point is, Ron has created a great mix. I think it's a really good blend. Now he just needs to add more of the same, at all levels.
I'll tell you what, the next time I will be there, which will probably be mid-late August you are welcome to run with us. I will take time to help you get through some of the areas that give you concern. No ridiculing, and no egging you into areas that you shouldn't go. But if you really want to learn the limitations of your rig without the fear of "how am I going to get out of this?", the offer stands. By the way, no mud.:sonicjay:
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420 Posts
Thanks whiterhino, I believe the biggest drawback I have is not knowing too many except the folks there. I would like to learn the right way. My goal is to be able to go to the extreme places someday, but I would have to be able to conquer whats local.
The biggest is the hangups on stuff, ground clearance, the tire obstacles I get stuck, and the softy dirt it sinks, about 20psi procomp extreme mud terrains no beadlocks. I have open diffs on front and lockrite on the back with just 30 and 35 axles stock and 488 gears. I hear and see alot of broken stuff on rigs. I think if I knew what was up ahead I'd be fine, probaly a spotter to ride along too. On new stuff sometimes you go down dips and I can't see what's comming up, rocks and such. I've had a few tense moments, and probaly need to ride with someone experienced sometime down the harder runs I haven't been on and learn. I just don't believe in risking my rig or life for my inexperience. Thanks for the invite I would enjoy that. I usually come alone or have my daughter with me who doesn't understand the sport, as far as spotting etc. Whats easy for some is hairraising for me sometimes. I haven't pushed my rig to it's point yet, but have off cambered it to where it might go.
The biggest is the hangups on stuff, ground clearance, the tire obstacles I get stuck, and the softy dirt it sinks, about 20psi procomp extreme mud terrains no beadlocks. I have open diffs on front and lockrite on the back with just 30 and 35 axles stock and 488 gears. I hear and see alot of broken stuff on rigs. I think if I knew what was up ahead I'd be fine, probaly a spotter to ride along too. On new stuff sometimes you go down dips and I can't see what's comming up, rocks and such. I've had a few tense moments, and probaly need to ride with someone experienced sometime down the harder runs I haven't been on and learn. I just don't believe in risking my rig or life for my inexperience. Thanks for the invite I would enjoy that. I usually come alone or have my daughter with me who doesn't understand the sport, as far as spotting etc. Whats easy for some is hairraising for me sometimes. I haven't pushed my rig to it's point yet, but have off cambered it to where it might go.
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22,659 Posts
Trash Barrels in the area of obstacles....
We were out yesterday and at impossible hill, winch hill, rock wall. there was trash around those areas ( assuming from spectators) our group ( well mostly Feva4u and S.Hembree) picked alot of it up and put in his jeep.
Having a 55 gallon barrel or something within the area of an popular spectating obstacle would give lazy people a place to throw their pop cans, sandwich baggies, chip bags etc... a place to put them.
Just a suggestion.
We were out yesterday and at impossible hill, winch hill, rock wall. there was trash around those areas ( assuming from spectators) our group ( well mostly Feva4u and S.Hembree) picked alot of it up and put in his jeep.
Having a 55 gallon barrel or something within the area of an popular spectating obstacle would give lazy people a place to throw their pop cans, sandwich baggies, chip bags etc... a place to put them.
Just a suggestion.
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21,342 Posts
its sad but i guess some people need that rather then just put it in there rig and throw it away later
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22,659 Posts
I totally agree, but alas their will ALWAYS be people like that.
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32,107 Posts
It's a shame but true.:whiz:
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1,143 Posts
Lazy bastards... I couldn't believe all the cans around impossible hill. I think I picked up about a dozen cans just at that spot...
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790 Posts
I have a metal 55 gallon drum and a plastic 55 gallon drum you can have. both would need the tops cut off. They are new minus the fluids that were in them. I can bring them up next time or if someone else goes up soon, please grab them if they can be of use.
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2,274 Posts
thanks for the suggestions guys, and also thanx to everyone for helping us keep the park clean. its good to hear theres actually ppl that will pick stuff up instead of just driving around it.
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5,037 Posts
Plenty of stock stuff for you
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