Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest banner
65881 - 65900 of 65914 Posts

·
Desert Rat
Joined
·
7,523 Posts
And i agree with you in that case... they can all get bent... that situation has probably been in play for a long time, and there will likely be parties and back alley money exchanges whilst they pat themselves on the back for bringing commerce to the area:rolleyes:
This project claims are going to help fund improvements to city water and sewer improvements plus tax windfalls. Rumor has it they were pushing for a twenty year tax exemption at the last minute to help usher the project through.

Its a pretty cool beach five minutes from my house. We bonfire there several times a summer until the wee hours of the morning and pretty much have it to ourselves.

I will be thinking about them when that forty mile per hour, ten below zero north wind is pounding the front of the building In January.
I hope it suffers chronic fire sprinkler freezes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
804 Posts
This project claims are going to help fund improvements to city water and sewer improvements plus tax windfalls. Rumor has it they were pushing for a twenty year tax exemption at the last minute to help usher the project through.

Its a pretty cool beach five minutes from my house. We bonfire there several times a summer until the wee hours of the morning and pretty much have it to ourselves.

I will be thinking about them when that forty mile per hour, ten below zero north wind is pounding the front of the building In January.
I hope it suffers chronic fire sprinkler freezes.
Well, i was correct on the pat themselves on the back for the updated to the water system... but if they get any tax breaks that puts it back years and years i bet.

Your wish this time is far more conceivable than your previous one lol
 

·
Sore and Tired 24/7
1995 Ford Bronco 5.8 4X4 1996 F150 4x4 4.9
Joined
·
13,172 Posts
I hardly use Ebay anymore, unless its for used not reproduced parts. I decided to save $20 over Amazon and get a plastic fuel tank for by Big Red. Took them 4 days after printing the label to get it to UPS, UPS lost it for 4 days, Finally get it after 12 days instead of 4. And it ends up being wrong. To Amazon I go.
 

·
Project Antitube
Joined
·
1,246 Posts
I pretty much quit using eBay when they got rid of eBay bucks last year. I used to buy most of my shit on eBay (probably 3-12k a year). I think I've purchased three things on eBay in the last year. An alarm clock/flashlight combo from when I was a chillun NIB, used tires for my truck which was a huge hassle, and brakes for my wife's Equinox. The reason I bought the brakes for my wife's Equinox from there instead of Amazon is because the vendor charged less on eBay plus Chase is having 5% bonus on Paypal so it ended up offsetting the loss from the Amazon standard 5% with the Amazon card.

I largely only buy from Amazon if it's the same price or less than anywhere else, and it has free returns. No free returns I'll probably buy it somewhere else. I get a high percentage of shit from Amazon that was clearly someone else's return. Like one of the pool heaters I got this year was still wet inside, half the shit was missing, and there was still PTFE tape on the fittings. I've gotten a lot of reboxed stuff also.

Last week I removed the eBay app from my phone. No real reason to use it anymore. I used to be on it like 2-3x a day checking shit.
 

·
Hang all the thieves
Joined
·
1,840 Posts
Has anyone heard about the proposed expansion of the military base in Gaylord? Only bring it up as the subject of land grabs has been mentioned, and hadn't see anyone discussing it yet. All my information comes from a coworker who has had cabins in the Lewiston and Torch lake areas for the last 25 years or so. Apparently the want to more than double the size of the base, and start leasing it to private defense contractors to test and train on when the military themselves aren't actively training on it. It seems to have been kept pretty quiet, especially in the lower part of the state. From what I understand, this annexation will cover a large part of the trail/hunting public land up there. Including areas that were previously closed by the DNR to off-road use Including snowmobiles, due to endangered species/ and habitat. So, who's heard what?
 

·
Life=Short. Jeeps=Cool
Joined
·
4,540 Posts
Has anyone heard about the proposed expansion of the military base in Gaylord? Only bring it up as the subject of land grabs has been mentioned, and hadn't see anyone discussing it yet. All my information comes from a coworker who has had cabins in the Lewiston and Torch lake areas for the last 25 years or so. Apparently the want to more than double the size of the base, and start leasing it to private defense contractors to test and train on when the military themselves aren't actively training on it. It seems to have been kept pretty quiet, especially in the lower part of the state. From what I understand, this annexation will cover a large part of the trail/hunting public land up there. Including areas that were previously closed by the DNR to off-road use Including snowmobiles, due to endangered species/ and habitat. So, who's heard what?
Oh I'm gonna do a deep dive response when I get back to my computer... I'm directly involved with this and the narrative out there against it is a lot of fear mongering and misinformation.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 

·
Life=Short. Jeeps=Cool
Joined
·
4,540 Posts
Alright, let me start this statement with what I'm assuming most of you are already aware of. I work for the Michigan National Guard and have been part of this land lease effort with the DNR so I'm more than happy to answer any questions you all might have.

First things first, lets establish some backstory. The Camp Grayling Joint Maneuver Training Center was originally established in 1913 on land gifted to the State of Michigan by this guy (Rasmus Hanson (1846-1927) - Find a Grave Memorial) Rasmus Hanson. Who was a lumber barron during his time on earth. Since then the base has grown and expanded several times in the past 100+ years and today has several types of land that comprise it's footprint. Some of these are federal, some are State, and the overwhelming majority are DNR owned land leased for use by the Michigan National Guard (I'll refer to this as dual use land later).

Today, the totality of Camp Grayling comprises roughly 148,000 acres of land. There are three "restricted" areas that fenced in as they are dudded impact areas, along with the cantonment area of camp which was part of the original land grant. These four areas comprise an estimated 30,000 acres of land (guesstimate) that is not open to the general public at any time. The other 118,000 acres-ish are lands leased for use by the Michigan National Guard from the Department of Natural Resources. This land is used as maneuver space, bivouac sites, firing points (firing artillery into the impact areas), and other various field training needs. It is also, at times, sub-leased to defense contractors to conduct product development and testing as Grayling offers significant spectrum capability due to it's lack of large cities, interference, etc. These sub leases are also used by the Michigan Defense Force, Michigan State Police, Civil Air Patrol, and other various security forces. The most important thing that is NEVER brought up in these conversations is that the areas that are sub leased are the ones that the general public can't access anyways.

The current request is to expand the lands leased from the DNR by about 160,000 acres. This is land that will expand the maneuver space available to military personnel conducting training and provide enough training area for Large Scale Combat Operations (LSCO). During the Global War on Terror, the military was conducting what is referred to as Counter Insurgency Operations (COIN) in Iraq/Afghanistan. This was focused towards close quarters combat against an embedded enemy that was not easily identifiable, training areas were focused on the development of Military Operations in Urban Terrain (MOUT) Villages to accurately reflect the urban environments that we were conducting combat in. Over the past five years or so, the military has transitioned to a LSCO focus as it has become apparent that while we were at war our peer adversaries were watching and continuing to develop their capabilities. Unfortunately, this transition means we also must adapt our training and training spaces to accommodate this shift in mentality.

This includes incorporating technologies that are rapidly developing into the battle space, as our adversaries will utilize their own indigenous non-kinetic capabilities to sew confusion and deny, degrade, and disrupt operations by our forces. In order to be prepared for these future fights we must continue to "Train as we fight" and that fight is changing, and doing so rapidly.

I could write a dissertation on the changes in modern warfare but I'd honestly probably bust classifications in doing so. There are some very respectable concerns that have been posted by citizens in/around the Grayling area. But unfortunately, the people that are speaking out the loudest against this expansion are former employees of the base that were let go and are holding a bit of a grudge. There's a FAQ that was posted on the Michigan.gov website (https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/-/medi...009413b&hash=62D92E26E854504164191D12445527A0) and you can also see what the current base looks like here (https://gismo.ngb.army.mil/)

Lastly here's the link to the full map (Map reveals Michigan National Guard’s proposed Camp Grayling expansion | Bridge Michigan)

I'm happy to answer anyone's questions on it, can't promise I'll have ALL the answers but I'll at least try and provide the other side of the coin that is not being portrayed all over facebook
 

·
LCG HIJKLMNOP
Joined
·
7,850 Posts
I don't feel like I'm out of spectrum (bandwidth?) at the moment. Primary smart tv is hardwired, other devices are on the same WAP, but have never seen slowdowns due to users on network.

Barn is ~200ft from house. I already have gas and electric going from house/garage to barn. I really didn't want to run cable or network cable out there due to potentially requiring a 2nd trench or whatever other inconveniences it would incur. Signal is good around the property from the main WAP, except in the metal barn, with metal interior walls. The antenna only serves to workaround the metal wall issue. I get that running a wire in would as well.
Look into powerline series stuff. Plug it in the house, plug the other in the barn, connect ethernet and put a AP in the barn. Ethernet ish without running new lines.
 

·
Mr. Special Snowflake.
Joined
·
13,516 Posts
So the real question in my mind is how much of the generally used trail riding area around Grayling will be lost?
If I'm reading it correctly, none permanently, but we might see more military activities over a wider area that we'd need to watch out for and avoid.
 

·
Life=Short. Jeeps=Cool
Joined
·
4,540 Posts
So the real question in my mind is how much of the generally used trail riding area around Grayling will be lost?
If I'm reading it correctly, none permanently, but we might see more military activities over a wider area that we'd need to watch out for and avoid.
Correct, there are times that certain areas are restricted for safety. Firing points are a prime example, if I'm launching rockets into an impact area we can't have ATV's/UTV's blowing through the training area. Camp Grayling publishes a Range Report on a weekly basis on their Facebook, the Grayling Visitors Bureau Facebook, and multiple radio stations web pages. This can be inconvenient at times but it's able to be mitigated with proper planning and awareness, much like checking the weather before going out.

Now if a unit is just occupying an area, it's not uncommon to see ATV's/UTV's just riding by on the trail. Unless there's a specific reason to block access to an area the trail systems are kept open and the military/local community intermix quite well from what I've seen. Including times where we've hosted community day/demonstrations on some of the ranges and invited the people out (never seem to hear people complain during those)

The benefit is that part of the land lease is allowing MING to use engineer support to maintain trail systems and firing points, as what we move about in is often a bit larger than a UTV/ATV we need to keep the trails clear to avoid damage to systems/antenna's/etc. One of the reasons that the trail system is so well groomed around Grayling is due to the military support to the trail system to get in/around the training area. This will allow an expanded footprint of that support.

As the installation is a National Guard base it's busiest Friday-Sunday when units are conducting training and nearly dead Monday-Thursday. There are about two times a year during the summer when the base is much busier, a two-week period in June and a two-week period in August. During those times you can anticipate anywhere from 2500 - 10,000 people in/around the training area and increased military activity (That's current training).
 

·
Desert Rat
Joined
·
7,523 Posts
Correct, there are times that certain areas are restricted for safety. Firing points are a prime example, if I'm launching rockets into an impact area we can't have ATV's/UTV's blowing through the training area. Camp Grayling publishes a Range Report on a weekly basis on their Facebook, the Grayling Visitors Bureau Facebook, and multiple radio stations web pages. This can be inconvenient at times but it's able to be mitigated with proper planning and awareness, much like checking the weather before going out.

Now if a unit is just occupying an area, it's not uncommon to see ATV's/UTV's just riding by on the trail. Unless there's a specific reason to block access to an area the trail systems are kept open and the military/local community intermix quite well from what I've seen. Including times where we've hosted community day/demonstrations on some of the ranges and invited the people out (never seem to hear people complain during those)

The benefit is that part of the land lease is allowing MING to use engineer support to maintain trail systems and firing points, as what we move about in is often a bit larger than a UTV/ATV we need to keep the trails clear to avoid damage to systems/antenna's/etc. One of the reasons that the trail system is so well groomed around Grayling is due to the military support to the trail system to get in/around the training area. This will allow an expanded footprint of that support.

As the installation is a National Guard base it's busiest Friday-Sunday when units are conducting training and nearly dead Monday-Thursday. There are about two times a year during the summer when the base is much busier, a two-week period in June and a two-week period in August. During those times you can anticipate anywhere from 2500 - 10,000 people in/around the training area and increased military activity (That's current training).
I see this as a good thing.
They got to train somewhere, if that’s the best place for it, then so be it.

I spent twenty years working for the Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Training Center in the Sierra Nevada mountains. They say the terrain there is exactly like the mountains of Afghanistan. The base was located on Toyaibe National Forest land and we had an open base, no gates and few problems. Though they did have checkpoints, barricades, .50 caliber machine guns and other security measures by close of business 11 September 2001. Other than that we shared the land with touristas with very few issues.
High speed action photo included for reference.
Vehicle Motor vehicle Automotive lighting Automotive exterior Snout
 
  • Like
Reactions: aber61

·
Mr. Special Snowflake.
Joined
·
13,516 Posts
Correct, there are times that certain areas are restricted for safety. Firing points are a prime example, if I'm launching rockets into an impact area we can't have ATV's/UTV's blowing through the training area. Camp Grayling publishes a Range Report on a weekly basis on their Facebook, the Grayling Visitors Bureau Facebook, and multiple radio stations web pages. This can be inconvenient at times but it's able to be mitigated with proper planning and awareness, much like checking the weather before going out.

Now if a unit is just occupying an area, it's not uncommon to see ATV's/UTV's just riding by on the trail. Unless there's a specific reason to block access to an area the trail systems are kept open and the military/local community intermix quite well from what I've seen. Including times where we've hosted community day/demonstrations on some of the ranges and invited the people out (never seem to hear people complain during those)

The benefit is that part of the land lease is allowing MING to use engineer support to maintain trail systems and firing points, as what we move about in is often a bit larger than a UTV/ATV we need to keep the trails clear to avoid damage to systems/antenna's/etc. One of the reasons that the trail system is so well groomed around Grayling is due to the military support to the trail system to get in/around the training area. This will allow an expanded footprint of that support.

As the installation is a National Guard base it's busiest Friday-Sunday when units are conducting training and nearly dead Monday-Thursday. There are about two times a year during the summer when the base is much busier, a two-week period in June and a two-week period in August. During those times you can anticipate anywhere from 2500 - 10,000 people in/around the training area and increased military activity (That's current training).
At first I wondered why they would want to be operating in areas with civilian activity, but then I realized, given the nature of war in places like Ukraine, having to deal with civilians in the area might actually be part of the training, and not a distraction from it. I think a few times wheeling up there we inadvertently became part of the exercise.
 

·
Life=Short. Jeeps=Cool
Joined
·
4,540 Posts
At first I wondered why they would want to be operating in areas with civilian activity, but then I realized, given the nature of war in places like Ukraine, having to deal with civilians in the area might actually be part of the training, and not a distraction from it. I think a few times wheeling up there we inadvertently became part of the exercise.
I will neither confirm nor deny whether I've used snowmobilers as notional enemy for reconnaissance practice in helicopters . Gotta get creative some days!

In all honesty, the community relationship has been great my entire time in the Guard. The base supports the town and the town supports the base. The issues being brought up are definitely being taken into consideration, but much like politics these days the are people disregarding answers because they either refuse to believe them or think they're irrelevant. You can't reason with people like that and they seem to be the ones with the loudest voices.

The main guy that's pushing against it was fired from the base and seems to have a personal vendetta against the current camp commander

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 
65881 - 65900 of 65914 Posts
Top