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In Da Faaaaaace!!!
1988 YJ
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6,223 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know many love the non greaseable joints as they seal better and you do not need to service them. There are many talks of them being "stronger" as they do not have the cross drilled out for grease and there is no hole in the joint for a zerk. Makes sense....but how much stronger...seems there is no data from spicer that compares strength.

My rear 1410 joint at the t-case operates at a shitty angle due to running a single joint. Seems I would benefit from having a joint I could grease and just shoot grease in it before every trip/outing. My last joint failed and I'm sure its because crap got in there or the grease got out? Maybe from getting hot running at less than ideal angles?? I don't know.

That joint had probably 6 trips on it. Silver lake, bundy hill, holly oaks, 2 windrock trips, and road miles.


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F-U-CANCER!!!
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5,924 Posts
Looks like it failed from hitting something rather than wear? Was it lubed when assembled? Any u joint should last longer than that without a catastrophe.
 
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In Da Faaaaaace!!!
1988 YJ
Joined
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6,223 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Looks like it failed from hitting something rather than wear? Was it lubed when assembled? Any u joint should last longer than that without a catastrophe.
The first issue is.... I do not know how long it was bad for. When I got home from my second windrock trip, I took the driveshafts off. When I went to take the U bolts off the tcase yoke, that is when I saw how bad the joint was. I never heard it or felt it when switching from Park to Drive or reverse like you normally would.

So it could have been bad for a while....then drit/sand/water/mud got into it and just ate away at it with no grease.

I am a fan of greaseable joints.
yeah... I'll probably go that route. I have a nice DeWalt 20v grease gun that will make easy work of keeping them topped off. I was always amazed at the amount of crap that came out of the old 1310 joints when I would grease them.
 

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I'll Direc your TV
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9,208 Posts
Greaseable will always be the preferred medium over non-greaseable IMO. If I know it's got fresh grease in it, I know it's got grease in it.

As said, really looks rough for a u-joint with low miles on it? Is the angle really that bad??
 

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In Da Faaaaaace!!!
1988 YJ
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6,223 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Maybe its from smacking it on something. I did land on a damn jersey barrier launching up a hill. I know the driveshaft angle and the speeding up/slowing down action from missmatched angles will cause heavy wear....but just expected it to last longer.

Currently its a bit better than what it was. The tcase and axle is not parallel to one another. I could probably get it even better, but the driveshaft is to short. Soooooo make a new shaft and have this as a spare..... is kind of the game plan.
 

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Desert Rat
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7,461 Posts
I know many love the non greaseable joints as they seal better and you do not need to service them. There are many talks of them being "stronger" as they do not have the cross drilled out for grease and there is no hole in the joint for a zerk. Makes sense....but how much stronger...seems there is no data from spicer that compares strength.
That is the part I never got.
It always seemed to me to be the same seals, just a zerk added to the caps/cross.
Unless by “seal better” they mean you cannot over grease and break the seal on the cap.

When I replaced the unit wheel bearing on my old ram I drilled it for a zerk. I half regretted doing it thinking I possibly contaminated the bearing with shavings. But I did use one of those circle magnet chingaderras and a magnet bit. Totaled the truck before it needed replacement again, so I’ll never know.

”It’s alway better with lube”
 

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In Da Faaaaaace!!!
1988 YJ
Joined
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6,223 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think most of the bad looking stuff came from after it was on its way out... then more crap got in and there was no grease left. Kept driving and it just got worse and worse. I did hit some good rocks with the shaft as well.

The yoke is like new still. But...I'll defiantly check it out.
 

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217 Posts
Serviceable u-joints only for me. The non-serviceable are only negligibly stronger, like within the margin of error. The center area that is drilled out accounts for probably half a percent of the total strength at best.

When properly sized, a maintained greaseable u-joint will always outlast the non-serviceable because the lubricant is being replaced. The most common failure for a u-joint is loss of lubrication, then the bearings turn to dust. I think your case it's mechanical damage due to the wrong pinion angle. It's really important to have the right drive angles, or your u-joints will self-destruct because the bad angle loads the joint where it shouldn't be. As the output spins on the TC spins, the shaft will try to spin at the same speed, but the input on the differential will be constantly accelerating fast and slow which pushes the driveshaft in/out slightly and results in the vibration you'll feel. Your yokes should be parallel, within about a degree at ride height. Or with a double cardan, you have the pinion on the diff pointed at center of the yoke on the TC, and the extra u-joint will give you constant velocity.
 

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In Da Faaaaaace!!!
1988 YJ
Joined
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6,223 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Oh for sure. I don’t disagree about the angles.
I’m actually making the angles good now. Clearance the shaft so it will not bind at full droop.
Had to lengthen the shaft by 2.75”

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will be alL nicely tig welded and Should neverhave issues. I did order all new drive shaft parts to make a new one that has no splice. This will allow me to hit silver lake on Saturday :)
 

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Low Range Drifter
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8,652 Posts
I am self aware enough to know that I suck at maintenance, so I buy the non-greasable. I'll tell you it's for the strength increase, but it's really that I'm not gonna grease up a trail rig that sees minimal miles per year.

Agreed that the scuffed corner doomed that joint. I've had good luck with selling/parting out rigs before wearing out a 1410 joint.
 

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Project Antitube
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1,212 Posts
From my time in college working and having keys to rooms people should have used card readers to get into...

I used some equipment to test joints. I can tell you that without a doubt that ones that are drilled are weaker. They also usually have garbage hardening and surface treatment.

There are exceptions. But for the most part, the ones with a needle zerk on each cap were by far the strongest. I'm guessing because of the added expense of having fancy caps they put more money into the whole body.
 

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I'm not old, honest...
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31,010 Posts
From my time in college working and having keys to rooms people should have used card readers to get into...

I used some equipment to test joints. I can tell you that without a doubt that ones that are drilled are weaker. They also usually have garbage hardening and surface treatment.

There are exceptions. But for the most part, the ones with a needle zerk on each cap were by far the strongest. I'm guessing because of the added expense of having fancy caps they put more money into the whole body.
^^^ That right there is the bigger problem. Curious if you were looking at off brand joints or Spicer or Neapco? Just like gun drilled axle shafts and tubing, the difference in strength and deflection would be negligible. All joints are drilled in the cap area for grease retention. I don't think the strength in the center of the cross is compromised much by drilling.
 

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Project Antitube
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1,212 Posts
So this was almost 20 years ago at this point but...

I got an assload of universal joints (mostly 1310 and S44) at auction. Basically the old RockAuto way of buying shit from closed down auto parts stores. Nobody wanted them. I'm saying... 100s of joints and I probably had 50-60 1310 and S44 joints left after fencing them to club members and selling them on fleabay.

So I took them to work and abused them on the lab equipment.

Remember in the late 90s/early 2000s a lot of stuff was still made in the USA. Neapco and Dana were usually just in different boxes but looked identical most of the time. Most of the other brands were also sharing including whatever garbage Federal Mogul was selling at the time.

Cheap universal joints like Precision (FM) failed real easy. You could watch them deflect in the caps first and then they'd just unload. I don't know if the needles crushed first or the caps broke, but it was always really boring to watch. Some of them I vividly remember the needles dug into the surface.

Some nicer joints that were properly hardened it was the cross that failed where it was drilled and tapped for the zerk. Every time. I could watch it deflect a little and if the cap didn't fail at this point then the cross broke and shit went all over.

I had a boatload of Autovalue house brand joints and they were all junk. You never really notice how junk some things are until you compare them. I saw a couple that the zerk literally went nowhere (nothing drilled).

I never broke any of the premium solid joints in the cross, it was always the caps/needles that failed.
 

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In Da Faaaaaace!!!
1988 YJ
Joined
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6,223 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Cool you were able to do that. While I would imagine a non greaseable would be stronger… how much? Is it enough to even be a limiting factor? Like…. Is a greasable 1410 the same in strength as a solid 1350?
Damn…. I need to hit up project farm on YouTube!!!!

root then final pass.
Also one of the caps off the u joint at the axle. This is original to first install. Cross is mint.
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I'm not old, honest...
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31,010 Posts
Yes, I can see where the zerk port would be a stress riser. Is it enough to cause failure? All I can say is I have never broken a 1350 or 1410 joint so I don't know...........
 
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