Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
SLAYER!!
Joined
·
553 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So my brother is a Grand National Drag race guy and hes saying that water with an additive is waayyy better than a standard 50/50 coolant mix and most of what i came up with via interweb is that theres no real diffrence just that most race tracks wont let you use coolant since its to slick.

Im goin wheelin at the end of the month and since my cherokee is getting prety far into the "woh thats alot of miles" age (230k or so) i want her to stay ask cool as possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
723 Posts
He is right. I know lots of people that use water with an additive. Water cools alot faster then coolant. Make sure you use distilled water so that your cooling system doesnt corrode like it would with tap water. Any additive will work such as water wetter by redline or purple ice by royal purple. If i were you though i would try and do like a 75/25 mix with an additive. And dont forget to drain it before it gets cold out and go back to a 50/50 mix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
777 Posts
also i have read up lots on this, water with a additive is better if your using it short term like in a race or off road only application, and using a high pressure system, but for most people and a daily driver i would stick with a 60/40 mix.
 

·
Mall Crawler
Joined
·
2,632 Posts
x3 on him being right.

Water Wetter (or purple ice) decreases the surface tension in the water, allowing for more surface area contact in the tiny metal crevices (less vapor barrier), which leads to better heat transfer.


I added a bottle of wetter to my DD camaro with a 50/50 mix and saw a nearly 10° drop in running temp. IIRC the bottle claimed as much as a 30° drop if used in place of standard glycol, but provided no freeze protection.
 

·
Mr. Special Snowflake.
Joined
·
13,110 Posts
Way better at what?

Cooling? yes.
Protecting against corrosion? Not sure
Protecting against freezing? no.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Am I just stupid or wouldn't water with water wetter boil WAY earlier than 50/50 coolant/water mix?

I can see it being fine for 1/4 passes but for a long hot day out on the trail I'd guess you'd be blowing steam out your radiator cap pretty quickly.
 

·
Keep on truckin
Joined
·
5,937 Posts
you can't use just water and a coolant additive such as water wetter. there is no boil over protection, and no freeze protection. read the description below. it has nothing to do with increasing the boiling point of water. it's to be used as an additive in ADDITION to your existing 50/50 glycol antifreeze.

These products include a unique agent that lowers temperatures by reducing or eliminating bubbles or vapor barrier that form on hot metal surfaces

* Reduces or eliminates bubbles or vapor barrier that form on hot metal surfaces to reduce coolant temperatures by up to 20°
* Superior heat transfer properties compared to glycol-based antifreeze
* Compatible with new or used antifreeze (including DEX-COOL and long-life versions) to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems
* Improves heat transfer and reduces cylinder head temperature

if you want your engine to run cooler make sure your fan is working properly and make sure the antifreeze you have in there is in good condition. use an antifreeze tester.
 

·
I fix stuff!
Joined
·
13,804 Posts
I did a little research on the subject. Straight water has a higher specific heat capacity than a 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze; therefore a gallon of staight water can absorb and transfere more BTU's per given volume of cooling system capacity. As far as boil over protection, that is what a pressurized cooling system is for. As you increase the pressure on top of the liquid, its ability to vaporize is reduced (increase in boiling point). Regarding water pump lubrication and corrosion, there are products out there that will allow you to run straight water with no ill effects regarding corrosion or water pump failure.

Water wetter is an interesting product. I believe it works by decreasing the surface tension and allowing smaller bubbles to form at the water jackets. Heat transfer at the cylinder sleeve is inhibited when large bubbles form at the surface. In a large bubble, all the vapor inside the bubble (away from the surface) is is doing nothing to transfer its thermal energy to the surrounding water. If the surface tension is modified, the bubbles will be much smaller thus allowing a much greater surface area for gas/liquid heat transfere to take place.

In summary: Staight water is capable is removing more heat per volume than 50/50 antifreeze but I wouldn't recommend it unless you are running a competition vehicle.
 

·
I fix stuff!
Joined
·
13,804 Posts
I thought the pressure in the system that raised the boiling point?
A 50/50 mixture of water and antifreeze has a slightly higher boiling point than straight water. When pressure is added to the surface of either liquid, the boiling point will increase. A 50/50 solution will always boil at a slightly higher tempurature per given pressure on it's surface compared to water.
 

·
SLAYER!!
Joined
·
553 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ops nuggs got to that before me, hmm so im thinking think water will be a good idear then.

Another thought If water is cooling better the lowered boiling point won't marter then yes? So far the heep stays at 210 id like it to be a little cooler, I'm also doing a tourus fan swap before I go.
 

·
SLAYER!!
Joined
·
553 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ops nuggs got to that before me, hmm so im thinking think water will be a good idear then.

Another thought If water is cooling better the lowered boiling point won't marter then yes? So far the heep stays at 210 id like it to be a little cooler, I'm also doing a tourus fan swap before I go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,794 Posts
So far the heep stays at 210 id like it to be a little cooler, I'm also doing a tourus fan swap before I go.
You should be good to go with the Taurus fan they move a lot of air, when I went trail riding last year my truck over heated a few times with a clutch type fan reason being is because a clutch fan disengages at higher rpm like going through mud holes when your foot is in the gas but you are not moving fast enough for natural air to flow through the radiator so I learned real fast an electric fan or a direct drive fan is essential for conditions like that.

DO NOT use water wetter or purple ice and antifreeze together, I seen many examples of it jelling peoples coolant up for some reason, not sure if it was Dexcool doing this or regular green antifreeze but I hear many horror stories on the subject.
 

·
Need a strap?
Joined
·
1,007 Posts
DO NOT use water wetter or purple ice and antifreeze together, I seen many examples of it jelling peoples coolant up for some reason, not sure if it was Dexcool doing this or regular green antifreeze but I hear many horror stories on the subject.
I used water wetter with normal green antifreeze for years... never had a negative effect, only positive. Stuff worked great.
 

·
SLAYER!!
Joined
·
553 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Direct drive? Like no clutch? I was thinking of doing that since im not to shure that i will be able get all the relays and such set up for the E-fan to work trustingly before I go. So i was thinking of just bolting the clutch up.
 

·
I only wheel a boat.
Joined
·
17,273 Posts
A lot of derby guys just add a few drops of dish soap. This also is supposed to break the surface tension.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,794 Posts
Direct drive? Like no clutch? I was thinking of doing that since im not to shure that i will be able get all the relays and such set up for the E-fan to work trustingly before I go. So i was thinking of just bolting the clutch up.
Yep no clutch, I just installed a flex fan on my truck that is direct drive, flows tons of air even at idle...however one thing to worry about using one on a trail rig would be deep water crossings because there if no give like a clutch fan and you could not shut it off like an electric fan so probably not the best choice for you. I am not going to be crossing any rivers and will be doing a lot of towing with AC on this summer so I wanted a fan that would move a massive amount of air, only draw back is it is extremely loud, I can hear it inside my truck with the windows up, sounds like I have an electric leaf blower under the hood, but my temp stays right at 180.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
845 Posts
Yep no clutch, I just installed a flex fan on my truck that is direct drive, flows tons of air even at idle...however one thing to worry about using one on a trail rig would be deep water crossings because there if no give like a clutch fan and you could not shut it off like an electric fan so probably not the best choice for you. I am not going to be crossing any rivers and will be doing a lot of towing with AC on this summer so I wanted a fan that would move a massive amount of air, only draw back is it is extremely loud, I can hear it inside my truck with the windows up, sounds like I have an electric leaf blower under the hood, but my temp stays right at 180.
one thing to be careful with flex fans are that at high rpm like you would experience doing mud runs the fan blades flatten out and loose alot of effieciency. We run a circle track 22r that revs to 7300 rpm and with an aluminum flex fan we had cooling issues since the blades almost totally flatten out and dont suck any air. Our fix was going for a full plastic flex fan that most circle track guys are using. they dont flatten out like the aluminum ones and keep air flowing at high rpm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,794 Posts
one thing to be careful with flex fans are that at high rpm like you would experience doing mud runs the fan blades flatten out and loose alot of effieciency. We run a circle track 22r that revs to 7300 rpm and with an aluminum flex fan we had cooling issues since the blades almost totally flatten out and dont suck any air. Our fix was going for a full plastic flex fan that most circle track guys are using. they dont flatten out like the aluminum ones and keep air flowing at high rpm
I agree, clutch type fans also disengage at higher rpm also and cause the same issue. I dont really plan on mud bogging my Suburban though, it is used more for towing, winter daily driver, occasional trail rides, ect. I will eventually switch yo a good electric fan like a Black Magic or a Lincoln Mark VIII fan.
 

·
SLAYER!!
Joined
·
553 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ya, i wanted a flex fan sooo bad untill I realized what the flex in Flex fan was. :poke:

Im not worried about noise either, tho the water pulling the fan into the rad sounds like a bad day.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top