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I'll Direc your TV
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Somewhat related topic...but who knows of good backpacking trails in the UP? I know that's broad as those kinds of trails are a dime a dozen in michigan, but like an actual route or trail to take for say a long weekend? I am planning a hiking/backpacking trip with my brother for springtime-ish and want to do somewhere in the UP. Prefeerably easter just for time sake getting there.

Will be possibly a 2 night, 3 day trip, with packing in and out gear.
 

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Yooper In Training
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We camp 5-6 times a year, would love to do more but rarely have the time to commit to it. Usually we do at least 3 or 4 day weekends to make the most of it, with 1 full week trip usually around 4th of July. It's my happy place because it's the only time I don't have projects. We like state park campgrounds, but do some private ones too. Usually up around the Boyne, Indian River, and Petoskey areas, but we vary it a bit now and then to Rifle River, Leelanau, etc. Been trying to make it to PJ Hoffmaster for a few years but it hasn't happened yet. My wife is getting her long-talked-about OBX vacation with a bunch of family friends this summer, so I told her next summer we're doing a week in the UP, probably split between the Keweenaw and Marquette area. I'm really looking forward to that one!

Fall camping is my favorite; cooler weather, less people, nice colors, etc. The AC sure is nice to have in the hot summer camping, but I still spend most of my time outside in the shade with a cold beer or 20.

I like tent camping, but we ended up buying my in-laws' 2001 31' Jayco Eagle for dirt cheap about 3 years ago, so now it's glamping. It's definitely nice for packing and having comfort and space with 2 little kids and 2 big dogs, but 95% of the time if I'm awake, I'm outside anyway. I always figured with kids we'd get a pop-up but the price was right on our big bumper pull, so here we are. I'll have to dig up some pics later.

I'd love to have a setup to be back in the woods like roll bar bob does!
 

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Yooper In Training
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Making lots of good family memories with our hand-me-down camper.











Now though, my wife will probably not want to ever tent camp again cause she's been spoiled by the camper lol
Same. Even though our camper is old, it's big and convenient and I doubt we'll end up with anything much smaller when we eventually get something newer. This one is in good shape though and I'm gradually doing upgrades/updates.
 

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Gustafson
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Discussion Starter #25
Just based on the window configuration it looks like you have 2 bunks in the back, probably a sofa and dinette slide with the master bedroom up front. My parents had a prowler in the 90s with the same layout. Worked well for the 4 of us and the dog. I miss that camper.

Thanks for sharing! Looks like you guys have gone to some great spots.
 

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Yooper In Training
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Just based on the window configuration it looks like you have 2 bunks in the back, probably a sofa and dinette slide with the master bedroom up front. My parents had a prowler in the 90s with the same layout. Worked well for the 4 of us and the dog. I miss that camper.

Thanks for sharing! Looks like you guys have gone to some great spots.
Bingo! Pretty standard bunkhouse layout. It works well for us.
 

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Project Antitube
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I think I might actually like working on campers than actually camping. Probably because I don't have to deal with other camping patrons. Nothing makes you feel like you're in a trailer park more than listening to drunk old people nag at each other and their kids.

The 1978 GMC Royale I was working on in Wisconsin for a couple years (2016-2018). Basically would drive over there to work on various things my in-laws would pay asshats to fuck up. I actually worked on it in a few different shops' parking lots. I found a pair of pliers under the intake manifold, for example. This was March of 2018. The air cleaner stud was "lost" and dropped down the throttle body that cracked the block. The crazy thing is it still ran on 6 cylinders.

My in-laws call it my inheritance, I call it my Albatross. See, 3 years ago after countless problems and tens of thousands of dollars donated to idiots, my in-laws tried to sell it when the motor ate stud. I told them if they couldn't find someone to buy it for $10k that they could get it towed to my place and I'd work on it in my spare time. The crazy part is that it looks like crap in this picture but a lot of money had already been spent at this point upgrading it (probably around $25k, but I'm not sure). They said I could have it if I paid to tow it and I said I need it like I need another hole in my head. Few months later it showed up in my driveway.
278791



$1500 later, it was towed by an idiot behind a Class 5 and destroyed most everything behind the rear tires, but this was the culprit of killing (cracked block) the first Cadillac 500. I still can't believe it moved with a hole in two pistons and a cracked block.
278792


The 1978 GMC Royale I put together, shortly after paint when I took it to my parents so we could compare the size of to their 30' Freelander circa late May 2020 after about 1500 hours and a couple motors.
278790


On its way to Commiefornia circa September 2020 after a grand total of 1700 hours and three summers working on the damn thing.
278793
 

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I think I might actually like working on campers than actually camping. Probably because I don't have to deal with other camping patrons. Nothing makes you feel like you're in a trailer park more than listening to drunk old people nag at each other and their kids.

The 1978 GMC Royale I was working on in Wisconsin for a couple years (2016-2018). Basically would drive over there to work on various things my in-laws would pay asshats to fuck up. I actually worked on it in a few different shops' parking lots. I found a pair of pliers under the intake manifold, for example. This was March of 2018. The air cleaner stud was "lost" and dropped down the throttle body that cracked the block. The crazy thing is it still ran on 6 cylinders.

My in-laws call it my inheritance, I call it my Albatross. See, 3 years ago after countless problems and tens of thousands of dollars donated to idiots, my in-laws tried to sell it when the motor ate stud. I told them if they couldn't find someone to buy it for $10k that they could get it towed to my place and I'd work on it in my spare time. The crazy part is that it looks like crap in this picture but a lot of money had already been spent at this point upgrading it (probably around $25k, but I'm not sure). They said I could have it if I paid to tow it and I said I need it like I need another hole in my head. Few months later it showed up in my driveway.
View attachment 278791


$1500 later, it was towed by an idiot behind a Class 5 and destroyed most everything behind the rear tires, but this was the culprit of killing (cracked block) the first Cadillac 500. I still can't believe it moved with a hole in two pistons and a cracked block.
View attachment 278792

The 1978 GMC Royale I put together, shortly after paint when I took it to my parents so we could compare the size of to their 30' Freelander circa late May 2020 after about 1500 hours and a couple motors.
View attachment 278790

On its way to Commiefornia circa September 2020 after a grand total of 1700 hours and three summers working on the damn thing.
View attachment 278793
For it being a 78, and with that paint job you did on it, it doesn't look that old. You did a great job. Did you upgrade the interior as well?
My wife has been tossing the idea around of a fifth wheel or a motorhome. She has been looking at property up north for summer and something south(Florida) for the winter. Her aunt has a place on the water in Mackinaw with a great view of the bridge. She said we could park it there for the summers. Just might taker her up on that. We have friends in Englewood and North Port. Her one friend is a relator and has been looking at vacant land there for us to build on. We are still a few years from that but the more I think about it the better it sounds.
 

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Life=Short. Jeeps=Cool
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For it being a 78, and with that paint job you did on it, it doesn't look that old. You did a great job. Did you upgrade the interior as well?
My wife has been tossing the idea around of a fifth wheel or a motorhome. She has been looking at property up north for summer and something south(Florida) for the winter. Her aunt has a place on the water in Mackinaw with a great view of the bridge. She said we could park it there for the summers. Just might taker her up on that. We have friends in Englewood and North Port. Her one friend is a relator and has been looking at vacant land there for us to build on. We are still a few years from that but the more I think about it the better it sounds.
I mean mines for sale

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Project Antitube
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For it being a 78, and with that paint job you did on it, it doesn't look that old. You did a great job. Did you upgrade the interior as well?
My wife has been tossing the idea around of a fifth wheel or a motorhome. She has been looking at property up north for summer and something south(Florida) for the winter. Her aunt has a place on the water in Mackinaw with a great view of the bridge. She said we could park it there for the summers. Just might taker her up on that. We have friends in Englewood and North Port. Her one friend is a relator and has been looking at vacant land there for us to build on. We are still a few years from that but the more I think about it the better it sounds.
Interior is moderately updated. It is relative. New refrigerator/stove/sink/countertop/stainless backsplash (which was a PITA to cut and trim around). It has a new shitter and sink. The shower is original but refinished. It has been re-upholstered to the tune of paying a lady $2k to sew up new seat covers. The ceiling is now baltic birch and most of the walls are kustom tongue and groove walnut. The original cabinets (made out of walnut) make it look nice. The entire cockpit area is still original (it's all plastic). I did put neused/rebuilt seats out of a 2003 Escalade (without airbags, but with the integrated seatbelts) in it. I actually bought 4 pairs of 2000-2003 seats so I had enough parts to convert them to full 12-way power seats without the memory module, which was a PITA. The new leather was really expensive, out of a place in Texas. It originally came with just lapbelts so by the time I built new seat bases and whatnot so the shoulder belts would hold and the seat wouldn't rip out of the floor it was kind of an involved process.

The cockpit needs help, for sure. Mostly the dash. It looks fine and everything works, it just doesn't match the caliber of the rest of the coach. It is actually in surprisingly good shape except for a hole some asshat put in the dash for fog lights but I ended up using that hole for the intermittent delay rheostat for the electric wiper retrofit I put on it (originally had hydraulic wipers).

I was sick of working on it so I said if they wanted to spend the $1200 for new fiberglass bits and pay for my time I'd build a new ductwork system for the heater and do the dash for it this year. There is a company that resells a guy who makes nice fiberglass bits for the dash. I already ran all new wires for all of the instrumentation, except the speedo (which I did put a reluctor in for the digital cruise, so technically I can abandon the speedo cable). Some autometer gauges were already purchased and installed (high/low fuel pressure, mechanical oil, oil temperature, trans temperature). So it's just a case of tearing out the dash. He wanted to do it last year but then scope creep showed up (he wanted to do new windshields, one is fogging around the edges) and I didn't want to deal with that shit during COVID. My wife said it can't come back to our yard unless they're going to sell it so who knows if I have to deal with it again.

I want to buy a motorhome, a newer one, that has a bathroom big enough for people with large feet and a bed that doesn't require crawling over each other... or two beds for adults is fine. The GMC transmode bathroom design is so tiny I can't fit my sasquatch feet between the shitter and shower. So I've been eyeballing something like a circa 2009 Jayco Seneca HD 34SS or a brand new Freelander 23FS. I either want something so huge I can live in it or something small enough I can fit it in tiny camping spots. Both I want to be able to pull a Jeep or my jetboat. I could make a lot of things work, including the GMC after I relocated the air ride bits so I could move the shitter away from the shower... and put a limited slip in the front... but I'd rather have something a little bigger anyway. Freelander 23FS or a 26RS is what I've been eyeballing, emphasis on the 23FS. Mostly for its shortness to wheelbase ratio. The storage space is less than I'm used to, but I can make it work.

My parents have a 2020 Freelander 27QB which is 30' long and has a lot of motorhome behind the tire. They got this model because it has no slide and the build quality is above average for the price range. It is very nice in my opinion. My parents went from a popup for 40 years to this. They were sick of site setup and tear down. It used to take hours, now it takes 20 minutes.

I recommend taking a look at a lot of different ones, based on a wide range of prices.
 

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Gustafson
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Discussion Starter #31
My parents have a 2020 Freelander 27QB which is 30' long and has a lot of motorhome behind the tire. They got this model because it has no slide and the build quality is above average for the price range. It is very nice in my opinion. My parents went from a popup for 40 years to this. They were sick of site setup and tear down. It used to take hours, now it takes 20 minutes.

I recommend taking a look at a lot of different ones, based on a wide range of prices.
They wanted one without a slide out? It seems now a days everyone wants slides.
 

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Interior is moderately updated. It is relative. New refrigerator/stove/sink/countertop/stainless backsplash (which was a PITA to cut and trim around). It has a new shitter and sink. The shower is original but refinished. It has been re-upholstered to the tune of paying a lady $2k to sew up new seat covers. The ceiling is now baltic birch and most of the walls are kustom tongue and groove walnut. The original cabinets (made out of walnut) make it look nice. The entire cockpit area is still original (it's all plastic). I did put neused/rebuilt seats out of a 2003 Escalade (without airbags, but with the integrated seatbelts) in it. I actually bought 4 pairs of 2000-2003 seats so I had enough parts to convert them to full 12-way power seats without the memory module, which was a PITA. The new leather was really expensive, out of a place in Texas. It originally came with just lapbelts so by the time I built new seat bases and whatnot so the shoulder belts would hold and the seat wouldn't rip out of the floor it was kind of an involved process.

The cockpit needs help, for sure. Mostly the dash. It looks fine and everything works, it just doesn't match the caliber of the rest of the coach. It is actually in surprisingly good shape except for a hole some asshat put in the dash for fog lights but I ended up using that hole for the intermittent delay rheostat for the electric wiper retrofit I put on it (originally had hydraulic wipers).

I was sick of working on it so I said if they wanted to spend the $1200 for new fiberglass bits and pay for my time I'd build a new ductwork system for the heater and do the dash for it this year. There is a company that resells a guy who makes nice fiberglass bits for the dash. I already ran all new wires for all of the instrumentation, except the speedo (which I did put a reluctor in for the digital cruise, so technically I can abandon the speedo cable). Some autometer gauges were already purchased and installed (high/low fuel pressure, mechanical oil, oil temperature, trans temperature). So it's just a case of tearing out the dash. He wanted to do it last year but then scope creep showed up (he wanted to do new windshields, one is fogging around the edges) and I didn't want to deal with that shit during COVID. My wife said it can't come back to our yard unless they're going to sell it so who knows if I have to deal with it again.

I want to buy a motorhome, a newer one, that has a bathroom big enough for people with large feet and a bed that doesn't require crawling over each other... or two beds for adults is fine. The GMC transmode bathroom design is so tiny I can't fit my sasquatch feet between the shitter and shower. So I've been eyeballing something like a circa 2009 Jayco Seneca HD 34SS or a brand new Freelander 23FS. I either want something so huge I can live in it or something small enough I can fit it in tiny camping spots. Both I want to be able to pull a Jeep or my jetboat. I could make a lot of things work, including the GMC after I relocated the air ride bits so I could move the shitter away from the shower... and put a limited slip in the front... but I'd rather have something a little bigger anyway. Freelander 23FS or a 26RS is what I've been eyeballing, emphasis on the 23FS. Mostly for its shortness to wheelbase ratio. The storage space is less than I'm used to, but I can make it work.

My parents have a 2020 Freelander 27QB which is 30' long and has a lot of motorhome behind the tire. They got this model because it has no slide and the build quality is above average for the price range. It is very nice in my opinion. My parents went from a popup for 40 years to this. They were sick of site setup and tear down. It used to take hours, now it takes 20 minutes.

I recommend taking a look at a lot of different ones, based on a wide range of prices.
By the sounds of it you rebuilt the whole thing. From front to back and bottom to top.. I can see how it took you a few years to get it to where you have it today.
A friend picked up a wayfare coach with a diesel and is quite pleased with it. My wife has been looking at all types. Just glancing at the Freelander I see they are gas engines. With the price of gas going up and with the MPG's on those running at what? 8 to 10 mpg's? More homework
 

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Project Antitube
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My parents wanted one without a slideout so they could use it anywhere including a Walmart parking lot. They didn't want it to be a PITA to use without the slide pushed out. A lot of the Class B/C/S if they have a slide are unusable with the slide in. For example, our camper you can't get front to rear. It also makes it way easier for setup or teardown. 20 minutes and they're ready to go. They also don't have to worry about trees. The last thing they also wanted was it to be maneuverable enough to get around in tighter areas so it ruled out much of the larger ones.

The worst my parents' 6.0L/6L80e gasser got was 6.4MPG and that was in the mountains near salt lake. The average to California and back was 8.9MPG. I think the best he said he got was 11.4 and that was a tank somewhere around Memphis but I forget. It holds 56 gallons and they usually got 300-450 miles per day. My Dad was not kind to it, so much so he felt bad and changed the oil in California and when they got back. It was hot most of the whole trip (it was during all the fires) and they'd be driving for hours in 100+ heat.

I get 10-12mpg pulling my bumper pull with my 6.2L/8L90e truck so I think anything like a motorhome I'd probably get the same.
 

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My parents wanted one without a slideout so they could use it anywhere including a Walmart parking lot. They didn't want it to be a PITA to use without the slide pushed out. A lot of the Class B/C/S if they have a slide are unusable with the slide in. For example, our camper you can't get front to rear. It also makes it way easier for setup or teardown. 20 minutes and they're ready to go. They also don't have to worry about trees. The last thing they also wanted was it to be maneuverable enough to get around in tighter areas so it ruled out much of the larger ones.

The worst my parents' 6.0L/6L80e gasser got was 6.4MPG and that was in the mountains near salt lake. The average to California and back was 8.9MPG. I think the best he said he got was 11.4 and that was a tank somewhere around Memphis but I forget. It holds 56 gallons and they usually got 300-450 miles per day. My Dad was not kind to it, so much so he felt bad and changed the oil in California and when they got back. It was hot most of the whole trip (it was during all the fires) and they'd be driving for hours in 100+ heat.

I get 10-12mpg pulling my bumper pull with my 6.2L/8L90e truck so I think anything like a motorhome I'd probably get the same.
For a gasser that's really not bad. Mind you it could be worse. Mountain driving is where you put it through the paces. Living out west for quite a few years you get an idea of how to handle steep hills. Go as fast as you can before the climb. Hopefully you get up enough speed to still be doing 50 at the top of the other side. I've seen many tow behinds crawling half way to the top. Diesels pickup trucks pulling did better.
My wife has been watching the RV show and pointing out some some nice ones. But I can't see pulling a 35 plus footer with my half ton. I told her I would need a new truck and if we were to go that route I would prefer a diesel pusher Motor home. Then we could tow the jeep.
 

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Project Antitube
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If you're looking at used, joint some forums and on boring cold days take a gander at them. You get a feel for which ones to avoid.

I've worked on a lot of motorhomes, mostly older ones. Including diesel pushers. A lot of it was just getting them usable (a lot of suspension work) or repairing plumbing/wiring. Or fixing leaks. I have bought more dicor than an human should ever have to. I've put a lot of swaybars on to help with the scariness that is oncoming semis.

The best ones, for people that like to enjoy the outdoors as opposed to pavement pounding, are Super Cs. Freightliner is probably the best of the current generation, but if you look through history they have always been above average for the Super Cs. The old GM topkick/kodiak Super Cs were great. The Ford F550 Super Cs were great. Nice thing about Super Cs, is that since they're on a medium duty truck chassis you can usually very easily convert them to 4wd.

Anything with a Ford V10 is garbage, which is what you will find in most of the cheaper Class Cs.

I'm curious how Ford's new motor will do in their Class Cs. I haven't seen one in the wild or researched them much, but the E450 cutaway was cheap garbage chassis with a garbage motor, but it was super cheap so that's what most motorhomes got.

Chrysler got back into the market, but I haven't been too impressed. They're not bad, but I'd rather work on a E450 with a V10.

I probably wouldn't buy any Class A that didn't originally cost $250k+ in today's dollars, adjusted for inflation. I have a couple relatives that are/were fulltimers in Winnebago pushers. One of them switched back to a travel trailer and a truck after doing the pusher/corvette thing for years.

The problem with the bigger stuff is that it doesn't go anywhere. It just doesn't fit. Throw a toad behind it and it's even worse. You even have to pick your battles just getting gas. You end up dealing with 3 left turns because you can never make a right turn. With a 30' or less motorhome pulling a toad you can park on a side street in most smaller cities and hoof it to a decent restaurant. With a 40' Class A you're dropping the toad at Wally World and driving into civilization and after a while you get tired of that so you just go into Wally and buy a despair sandwich and go sit in the motorhome.
 

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If you're looking at used, joint some forums and on boring cold days take a gander at them. You get a feel for which ones to avoid.

I've worked on a lot of motorhomes, mostly older ones. Including diesel pushers. A lot of it was just getting them usable (a lot of suspension work) or repairing plumbing/wiring. Or fixing leaks. I have bought more dicor than an human should ever have to. I've put a lot of swaybars on to help with the scariness that is oncoming semis.

The best ones, for people that like to enjoy the outdoors as opposed to pavement pounding, are Super Cs. Freightliner is probably the best of the current generation, but if you look through history they have always been above average for the Super Cs. The old GM topkick/kodiak Super Cs were great. The Ford F550 Super Cs were great. Nice thing about Super Cs, is that since they're on a medium duty truck chassis you can usually very easily convert them to 4wd.

Anything with a Ford V10 is garbage, which is what you will find in most of the cheaper Class Cs.

I'm curious how Ford's new motor will do in their Class Cs. I haven't seen one in the wild or researched them much, but the E450 cutaway was cheap garbage chassis with a garbage motor, but it was super cheap so that's what most motorhomes got.

Chrysler got back into the market, but I haven't been too impressed. They're not bad, but I'd rather work on a E450 with a V10.

I probably wouldn't buy any Class A that didn't originally cost $250k+ in today's dollars, adjusted for inflation. I have a couple relatives that are/were fulltimers in Winnebago pushers. One of them switched back to a travel trailer and a truck after doing the pusher/corvette thing for years.

The problem with the bigger stuff is that it doesn't go anywhere. It just doesn't fit. Throw a toad behind it and it's even worse. You even have to pick your battles just getting gas. You end up dealing with 3 left turns because you can never make a right turn. With a 30' or less motorhome pulling a toad you can park on a side street in most smaller cities and hoof it to a decent restaurant. With a 40' Class A you're dropping the toad at Wally World and driving into civilization and after a while you get tired of that so you just go into Wally and buy a despair sandwich and go sit in the motorhome.
Thanks for your input. There is so much to look at it gets mind boggling. I have noticed with the ones with slides some you can't access the bathroom while in motion and the kitchen is pretty tight to make a samich while moving. we are still a few years out from getting one but researching now will help make a better choice when that happens. My wife did look into depreciation and found that the class A, B, C and fifth wheels lose roughly 20 percent value when you drive it off the lot. Looking for one about five years old and in good shape would save you that loss. We will keep looking and maybe rent one for a trip south this fall.
 

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Project Antitube
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It all depends on the model. Some everything is accessible, but difficult to get to. The cheaper Freelanders are navigable while moving. A lot of them that are, have folding beds.

I focus on construction first, then what materials were used to assemble it. Does it have good wiring and plumbing? Is everything well thought out or just done whatever is easiest/cheapest? Is it rodent resistant? Is it a decent refrigerator? A lot of times a more expensive version is just more expensive because they put an $80 Delta faucet in it instead of a $5 plastic one. The Leprechaun series is just a polished Freelander, for example.

The interiors are really strange in all sub-$100k RVs also. So the cabinets on a mid-level RV when you look at when you come in the door will be real wood. But the ones off the beaten path will be particle board with a sticker over them.

I get nervous about certain slide designs. It would suck to have a trip ruined because the slide quit working (has happened to multiple of my relatives). Some kinds are more prone to fail than others. The one on my camper is dirt simple (albeit huge) and easy to operate manually. The pain in the ass style are dual motor and timed, with 4 tracks. My Aunt and Uncle have always had giant Jayco Eagle 5ers and their current one has 3 slides, including the kitchen sliding out under the passenger side awning. More than once has that one failed to open or close, and required a technician come and use some fancy tools to get it to slide out.

After seeing a lot of failed kitchen slides, I'd never get one. Refrigerator... yeah, but I'd have to really look at the gas line to it.

It's tricky to figure out an honest price. For example, all last year 2020 model 23FS and 27QB (and 26RS, which I think is discontinued) was going for $60-63k with the 26DS going for a little more (like $66-68k). Right now most everywhere has them advertised for $73-82k. So, most people will overpay for them and try to sell them for $55-65k 3 years from now. But in reality I'd rather spend $66k after tax/title/registration (which will be insanely expensive) and have the warranty, because you will probably need it.

Some places, like General RV, will get close to the best price but are really firm on it. However, you can usually get them to throw in freebies. So instead of wandering the country trying to get a deal on a RV you could get one semi-locally and ask them to throw in things like a spare tire, cover, leveling blocks, surge suppressor, etc.

For window shopping, I like these places as they usually have decent information and pictures... and usually decent if not the best prices:
 

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Gustafson
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Discussion Starter #38
Some places, like General RV, will get close to the best price but are really firm on it. However, you can usually get them to throw in freebies. So instead of wandering the country trying to get a deal on a RV you could get one semi-locally and ask them to throw in things like a spare tire, cover, leveling blocks, surge suppressor, etc.
This is what we did. We bought ours from General RV. The price was decent, and we were able to negotiate some freebies.
 

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It all depends on the model. Some everything is accessible, but difficult to get to. The cheaper Freelanders are navigable while moving. A lot of them that are, have folding beds.

I focus on construction first, then what materials were used to assemble it. Does it have good wiring and plumbing? Is everything well thought out or just done whatever is easiest/cheapest? Is it rodent resistant? Is it a decent refrigerator? A lot of times a more expensive version is just more expensive because they put an $80 Delta faucet in it instead of a $5 plastic one. The Leprechaun series is just a polished Freelander, for example.

The interiors are really strange in all sub-$100k RVs also. So the cabinets on a mid-level RV when you look at when you come in the door will be real wood. But the ones off the beaten path will be particle board with a sticker over them.

I get nervous about certain slide designs. It would suck to have a trip ruined because the slide quit working (has happened to multiple of my relatives). Some kinds are more prone to fail than others. The one on my camper is dirt simple (albeit huge) and easy to operate manually. The pain in the ass style are dual motor and timed, with 4 tracks. My Aunt and Uncle have always had giant Jayco Eagle 5ers and their current one has 3 slides, including the kitchen sliding out under the passenger side awning. More than once has that one failed to open or close, and required a technician come and use some fancy tools to get it to slide out.

After seeing a lot of failed kitchen slides, I'd never get one. Refrigerator... yeah, but I'd have to really look at the gas line to it.

It's tricky to figure out an honest price. For example, all last year 2020 model 23FS and 27QB (and 26RS, which I think is discontinued) was going for $60-63k with the 26DS going for a little more (like $66-68k). Right now most everywhere has them advertised for $73-82k. So, most people will overpay for them and try to sell them for $55-65k 3 years from now. But in reality I'd rather spend $66k after tax/title/registration (which will be insanely expensive) and have the warranty, because you will probably need it.

Some places, like General RV, will get close to the best price but are really firm on it. However, you can usually get them to throw in freebies. So instead of wandering the country trying to get a deal on a RV you could get one semi-locally and ask them to throw in things like a spare tire, cover, leveling blocks, surge suppressor, etc.

For window shopping, I like these places as they usually have decent information and pictures... and usually decent if not the best prices:
Great information here, thanks a lot. Plenty of homework to do. (y)
 

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Bought this 42ft new in 2019 and we started camping. I do feel like it takes away from the "camping" aspect a little having such a big unit but we try to keep the kids outside doing things as much as possible! Spent a week at Holiday park in Traverse city this past 4th of July and took the boat with us. Currently the trucks torn down in the garage getting new paint, rockers, bigger turbo, bigger, injectors, ppe manifolds/uppipes, HSP bridge and charge pipes and general stuff to help it tow better. Setup should be good for a reliable 1200ft lbs tq and 700hp. Fifth wheel, boat, and truck are pushing 22k so wanted to give it some more power. Hoping for something better than 8mpg too lol.. For now im just hoping its done in time for are first trip april 30th to port crescent!
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