My fiat was made In Mexico, engine in Michigan, trans in Italy. The car shouldn't work, but it kind of does. I'm pretty sure my Toyota Tundra is more American.

I've never worked for an American car company, so why should I buy one?

And used beater cars don't really matter, you had to buy it from an American, you are going to buy Chinese made parts from an American. Honestly I try to buy American whenever I can for everything else, but cars I just can't always support their failed attempts at making a better product. Often times they just farm out their engineering to Mexico China or Korea. So I'm going to buy a Korean designed car to pad some executives portfolio while my neighbor or myself get screwed out of an engineering job? No thanks I'll just get the car I want.

 

This is the Pub, no room for your logic here.

 

the econobox DD doesn't make sense when gas is this cheap. When it gets back to $4 a gal, I'll get a cheap commuter car again if the numbers work out. But between maintenance, registration and insurance, you really need to drive a ton to make a dedicated commuter car pay off. Right now a DD a crewcab F150 (albeit with 212K miles on her). The difference is, the wife has a great commuter car for road trips when we need it.

 

This is pretty much what the wife and I are doing. She drives the 2014 Sonic RS 95% of the time, and I bounce between the Jeep and the truck. I only have a 14 mile drive to work on back roads, so it doesn't matter as much as her 30 miles each way to work. We take what we deem necessary for trips.

 

:sonicjay:

 

I love my manual TDI Golf. I can fit all kinds of crap in it for how small it is. I have been toying with the idea of selling it. :naughty:

 

I like my $350 pos. It gets me from point A to point B. Thats all a commuter car really needs to do.

 

Doesn't really matter what Skoot gets, it'll be disassembled in two weeks anyway.

 

I'm fairly happy with my 5 speed 08 Caliber SE. 67k for $5k. I've only owned it for a few months though.

 

IMHO in today's world picking your house based on your job location is ridiculous. It doesn't seem like people stay at jobs long enough to make that commitment. Maybe it make sense if you are a UAW guy that's going to be a lifer at one plant, but most professional people I know bounce around from time to time. So the what was a half hour drive to work when you bought your house might end up being an hour drive for the next job.

How did housing proximity to work even become a talking point? Isn't Skoots looking for a cheap DD, not a new house or a new job?

 

How did housing proximity to work even become a talking point? Isn't Skoots looking for a cheap DD, not a new house or a new job?

Because that's how Wrath logic works.

 

I would heartily recommend getting a manual transmission, regardless of what the POS commuter car will be. At least you can entertain yourself by pretending to be a rally car driver during your commute.

 

This.

 

I'll get a Subaru once my Sonoma gets closer to death. Thanks for the quality endorsements Sean & Chad.

 

One thing I forgot to mention is that insurance is overpriced for them. Even the non-turbo models are high for what they are. Still worth it though.

 

Ours increased $10 a month for a 2015 over our 2012 focus.

This is for full coverage, multi car policy, both folks in the house over 30 yrs, no tickets, etc.

 

I figured I'd put in my quick .02: I currently drive a 2006 HHR LT for commuting and like it. It's been reliable and relatively inexpensive to fix. Pretty decent for a $3000 car.

 

Surprised this gem hasn't been posted....

'Not driving your truck to keep the miles down for resale is like not banging your girlfriend to keep it tight for the next guy'

 

It's not the resale value I'm concerned about, it's the replacement cost.

Trucks are expensive, my truck works just fine for what I need a truck for. Plus I think I need a winter car, because rust kills cars worse than mileage. I can buy an engine transmission etc, but changing frames and bodies on a modern car just isn't worth it.

 

I drive about 80 miles a day (work only). I've done the commute car. Was given a 95 G. Marquis. Put $800 into it in repairs at purchase and put 20k on it and sold it for $1k. I got 21-23 mpg. It was great. Comfy, rode awesome. I owned a v10 f250 that barely got 11 empty. When I sold the v10 and bought my 06 6.0 f250 I sold the car. The 06 was 16-18 mpg and I drove that everyday instead.

I now have a 2010 Cummins getting the same mileage as the 06. But I've spent alot more to aquire the Cummins. I plan to drive it through the winter and start driving something else when the weather turns to keep miles off it.

But I won't be looking for a "economy car". I'm hoping I can either get my Galaxie drivable and drive that, or alternate the drive between my jeep and truck.

For some reason I've always wanted a miata. Maybe I'll buy one if those instead :teehee:.

 

I had a 99 RS coupe that had 150k on it, manual trans, burned some oil but always ran good, want to say I was getting about 27mpg. 2.5 non turbo.

Wife currently has a 2015 impreza, 2.0 non turbo hatch back. Fun car to drive. Currently getting about 30-32mpg, but I am told it should get closer to rated mpg once it breaks in. We have less than 4k on it.

Head gaskets and oil consumption are hit or miss on the subaru's. Across all models and most years. The head gaskets are easy to do if you run into that, and the oil consumption is annoying, but not a problem if you keep an eye on oil levels.

Parts were not expensive when I bought them for my 1999. They were also very easy to remove/install.

I personally would not be too worried about having the turbo wrx, if you just want a reliable commuter the n/a cars do the trick, kinda slow off the line (both of ours behave the same), but once over 20 mph or so they seem "peppy" and are very fun when driven in a spirited manner. they corner well, brake well, etc.

if you want a little extra speed and are not concerned with the added reliability/cost concerns associated with the turbo, then of course the WRX is a more fun car than the ones I have owned thus far. I've driven both the WRX and the STi multiple times and they are a lot of fun in my opinion.

The subaru's hold their value well, so unless you are willing to pay for it, you're going to get a car that is either high miles, or beat on, but they seem to be pretty durable and easy to acquire parts for. Within reason.

Regarding the VW's, I've tried multiple times to buy one, but I have never been able to bring myself to do it due to horror stories about the electrical systems. Many seem to have good luck with the VW tdi's and getting good mileage, but I don't think they are worth the premium in cost (both vehicle and fuel) for the little bit of mileage advantage you're getting, unless gas goes up over $5.

I'm not sure why I'm even responding here, because you're an askhole who will do whatever you want despite recommendations, but I'll give it a go anyway.

I've had 2 of the cars on your list: a Focus and a Subaru.

The Focus was a 2001 ZX3 3 door hatch with a 5 speed. The 5 speed made it so I could at least pretend it was a fun car even though it was boring as could be. It handled ok so I could throw it around on curvy roads, but with 130hp I don't think anything other than a manual would be tolerable if you want to stay awake driving it. I got it with about 145k miles and sold it with about 175k. I didn't have to do much to it but it seemed above average to work on. Parts were cheap in both cost and quality; typical throwaway car. Good inexpensive beater, but certainly not a car built to last. Don't buy one with 200k miles and expect it to last indefinitely. Mine was awful in snow and rain, but that may have been due to crappy tires. Hydroplaning like mad, couldn't go up the slightest incline, etc.

I've had 2 different Subaru's, both 2.5RS Impreza's. Don't buy a WRX for an econobox. They're fun and powerful, but lifespan is shortened with the turbo, you'll have to run premium fuel, and you'll get worse mileage doing it. Better for a fun car, worse for a DD meant to save you money. A WRX will cost significantly more in maintenance, fuel, and insurance from day 1. Get a non-turbo 2.5L Subaru, whether it's an Impreza, Outback, Legacy, or Forester. They're all good, solid, reliable cars that still make plenty of power and torque for a commuter. Manual and auto are both good choices. Manual is obviously more fun but can suck in traffic. The 2.5L can run for 300k miles without much issue but will require typical maintenance like timing belt every 75-100k. Some have head gasket issues, which is a pretty easy job. I think they fixed the gasket design issue around 2003-2004. Subaru's are the most well thought out, easiest, non-frustrating vehicles to work on that I've ever touched. Everything just makes sense and is packaged correctly. Parts are fairly cheap too. They'll go anywhere in any weather. It's unreal how those things claw through deep snow. They're still small and light so will get pushed around at speed in deep rutted snow, but they'll go anywhere. I've had my fullsize 4WD truck with good tires struggle in deep snow that my Impreza didn't even seem to notice.
The downside: Subaru's all have crazy high resale value. It's very hard to find one for a decent price. Mine has a rebuilt title from a previous accident, and needed head gaskets, so I got it for a great price. Had I not found that kind of deal I'd still have the Focus.

I have no personal experience with TDIs, but they seem hit or miss depending on year. Some people I know with older ones love them and say they last forever, but it seems like the people with mid 2000s year range can't keep the damn things running for more than a week. Definitely do your homework if you go that route.


Cliff notes: If you can find a good deal on a 2.5 non-turbo Subaru, buy it.

The only car I would consider of your options is a Subaru . Keep an eye on oil consumption.. My nephew is putting a new motor in his 09 turbo because he asummed he could go 4000 miles between changes, without checking it.

Worked in a vw audi shop for 15 yrs, wouldn't ever buy one that wasn't aircooled. They are over complex German engineered junk. Just one example...Most car makers use one or two control arms per corner. Vw and Audi use 4-6 per wheel so any suspension work costs 4-5 times as much as a normal car. They regularly blow timing belts way before the recommended service interval and when they do they bend every valve...

Also wouldn't touch a focus, or any Ford product. They are a complete pile of shit, same as an escape. They are underpowered, raffle, shake, they are just garbage. I would buy a kia before a ford...
Dodge neon is ten times the car a focus will ever be. And I hate dodges....

As a certified tech who works on all brands of cars I would be looking at a Hyundai for a cheap beater.. Better quality then Honda or Toyota imo, and cheaper to buy and maintain.

Cobalts/G5 are damn near free at this point.

4 cylinder epsilon (Malibu or G6 or Aura) aren't far behind.

4 cylinder Fusion, if it still has a transmission in it.

Then you have the normal shitboxes that nobody cares about.

Older Fucus, they're pretty easy to work on. Most of them are getting crispy now. New ones are too much Mazda.

The only thing on your list you might be happy with is a 2.5RS Lezbaru. Easy to work on, fairly reliable, fairly cheap to fix.

If I had to drive a shitty commuter car because it was too expensive to drive something nice I'd probably either find a different job that is closer to home, move, or ask for a raise and buy something that doesn't suck to drive.

Assembled in Orion maybe, but there's probably barely a single American part on those things. Not trying to make any kind of point, just throwing that tidbit out there.


Ah the usual passive-aggressive, quasi insulting Wrath "advice". Some things never change.

Some people live where they want and work where they have to. I don't want to live where the good engineering jobs are cuz that's where everybody else lives. I'll gladly drive a bit to do so. I could afford to drive a nice truck daily just fine, but why pay more to drive an expensive purpose-built vehicle into the ground when I don't have to? I'd rather keep my nice truck nice and save money driving a decent car that I don't mind racking up miles on. Parking is easier, every day it's putting $20 in my pocket, and the little 5 speed "Lezbaru" is fun in all weather. I daily drove a truck long enough, whether I can afford it or not it's still no fun spending a small mortgage payment to drive around in a 3/4 ton truck with an empty bed and no trailer. There are better things to do with the money for most of us.

Get over it. Every auto maker sources parts to the lowest bidder these days, American or not. It's an international market and unfortunately American manufacturing hasn't been the cheapest way to go in a long time. Fortunately for us costs and issues with China have both increased, and Mexico isn't far behind, but the US still has a ways to go if we wanna be back ahead of the curve. Putting the blinders on and thinking 'Merican car companies being the only ones that benefit America isn't going to make it true. I'm a big supporter of the big 3, have worked for American automotive suppliers my whole career, and much prefer American cars to foreign, but I'm not ignorant enough to think that big 3 cars are any more American these days than your average Toyota, Nissan, Honda, or Subaru. They all provide tens of thousands of American jobs and most use comparable mixes of locally and internationally sourced parts. Very few things are truly made in America anymore, and cars sure as hell aren't one of them. Even when things are assembled here it's usually done with internationally sourced parts.


Nope I doubt many/any are. I'm all for vehicles being built here, but I bet all those people driving big 3 vehicles assembled in Mexico and Canada are just as proud of their "American made" vehicles.

What's your price range?

Cars I would consider:
Mercury grand marquis
Anything gm with ecotec and manual trans, cavalier, ion, cobalt, G5, vue, Malibu, etc.
Then obvious choices of Camry or accord civic Corolla with 3 pedals
I'm an Oldsmobile man, so I'd find anything with velour seats that isn't rusty and whistle big band music music out my ass with a smile on my face.

I was also looking at tracker and vitara prices the other day and they didn't look too bad.

I daily drive my truck because I don't have the want, need or room to put another vehicle in my driveway. I don't consider there to be a right or wrong on what a person dd's. It's personal choice.

RE American made, I'm also a big 3 supporter. World market for manufacturing? Yes. Similar content? Probably very similar. I've seen charts in the past that show the big 3 to be a little more but not a big difference. (no idea on the current contents) But I like the fact that the engineering, R&D and profits are primarily here for the big 3.

Spot on with personal choice. The first time I tried an econobox DD I did it wrong. I was DDing a lifted V8 pickup getting 10mpg when gas was going up to $4 a gallon. I ended up buying a $10k fun econobox that ultimately wasn't saving me any money and I still preferred to drive my truck. That lasted less than a year and I sold it and went back to the truck.

A few years later, longer commute, and I was putting 30k miles a year on my newer souped up diesel. Between payments, insurance, and fuel I was dropping like $1200 a month on it. I loved driving the truck, but I hated seeing the wear and tear and money flying out of my bank account. That's when I picked up a cheap ass econobox that paid for itself in a year and has been making me money ever since. I was still making the big truck payment on something I was barely driving, so I also downsized to a less overkill truck for half the price. I've put 16k miles on it in 3 years, barely had to do any maintenance/repairs, and it's value has barely depreciated at all. I still prefer driving a truck, but I also prefer not throwing money away. This is best of both worlds for me.

Agree, personal choice, everyone's situation is different. To some they don't put enough miles and depreciation into their commuter for it to matter, for others it can be silly. If skoots wants to drive an economy car for his commute to save some $$ more power to him. If he wants to drive a race car to work cause it's fun, more power to him. hell, if he gets amberlamps running and wants to drive that to work, more power to him.

Regarding the american made thing. There aren't the volume of engineers and R&D and other jobs available for companies like Nissan, Toyota, Honda, etc. But those companies still employ many of us.

The profits don't stay here in the same way, but it doesn't get me all bent out of shape like it would have years ago to see some of those brands, that I know still have Tech Centers and R&D facilities here in Michigan/US, driving down the road.

Let's not also forget some of the assembly plants, in certain towns across small town america, those manufacturing facilities are employing a high percentage of the entire local area and keeping those people working as well.

As an example, toyota has been for the last few months and the foreseeable future, interviewing over 250 line workers per week at one of their assembly facilities in the midwest. I don't have any data on the number of people they will be hiring and have hired. But that stat was dropped on a conference call yesterday. That's a lot of folks at the end of the day.

I don't drive a Chevy truck because it's american made, I drive it because I think it's the best option out there in a 1500 series truck.

I tried to drive an american made economy car that suited our needs. We all know how that has ended up for myself and a whole host of others.

We made our next purchase after driving the cruze, sonic, mazda 3, golf, passat, civic, honda fit, subaru impreza, nissan rogue, nissan juke, nissan versa, etc. The big 3 only had one offering in our class and size and style (hatchback), and that was the focus we had just gotten out of. We ended up with a car that's a touch bigger than the focus, has awd, the same mileage, and we leased it so if its a shit box we won't give a damn :sonicjay:

Gimme an AWD hatchback that gets 35+ mpg highway from the domestics, and I'll definitely consider it, you can see we considered a lot of options, but at the end of the day we chose the car that we felt had the best value for us. I think that's what skoots is trying to do, regardless of build, and I think that's what any smart consumer should do.

I had two VW rabbits. One diesel, one gas.
Both were snow warriors on winter Sierra roads with studded snow tires. Like it was on rails.
On dry, those cars handle twistys better than a Porsche. Impressive.

The diesel I heard had 400k miles on when it's next owner wrecked it. That car sold me on diesel cars.

The gas was another story. I liked everything about it and preferred it to the diesel. Then one morning at -20° it would not start. I could not figure out why.
After a couple months of pulling brain cells I took it to a VW mechanic. He could find nothing wrong with it. But could not make it run. Took it to the dealer and got the same story.

I've always been of the mindset commuter cars should be fun cars, ESPECIALLY because you are trapped in them for so much time.

My fiat was made In Mexico, engine in Michigan, trans in Italy. The car shouldn't work, but it kind of does. I'm pretty sure my Toyota Tundra is more American.

I've never worked for an American car company, so why should I buy one?

And used beater cars don't really matter, you had to buy it from an American, you are going to buy Chinese made parts from an American. Honestly I try to buy American whenever I can for everything else, but cars I just can't always support their failed attempts at making a better product. Often times they just farm out their engineering to Mexico China or Korea. So I'm going to buy a Korean designed car to pad some executives portfolio while my neighbor or myself get screwed out of an engineering job? No thanks I'll just get the car I want.

the econobox DD doesn't make sense when gas is this cheap. When it gets back to $4 a gal, I'll get a cheap commuter car again if the numbers work out. But between maintenance, registration and insurance, you really need to drive a ton to make a dedicated commuter car pay off. Right now a DD a crewcab F150 (albeit with 212K miles on her). The difference is, the wife has a great commuter car for road trips when we need it.

I probably put more thought into it than you did.



Do you drive a Subaru or something? I wasn't paying attention. I thought you had something else.

And I wouldn't compare driving a lifted diesel truck on a long commute. That's just crazy talk.

Anyway...
Let's say you have a car that costs $120 to plate. $100/month to insure. You're at $1300 a year to have it sit in the driveway. That's $1300 that can go into the fuel tank of your non-commuter vehicle. That's a lot of fuel. At today's prices, that's about 600 gallons. If you have a vehicle that only gets 15mpg then that is 9,000 miles. I drive about 20k a year.

With the exception of wear on tires of a truck or high-performance car (think BMW 7 series) vs a shitbox, pretty much everything else costs the same to maintain on a vehicle. Maybe if you drive a diesel truck that takes 3 gallons of oil and a fuel filter every oil change that isn't the case. But let's say you're comparing a mediocre BMW 3-series vs a strip model Chrysler 200. Same cost to maintain.

The depreciation on a BMW 3-series is about the same as a Chrysler 200 when comparing mileage per dollar. It's just that the 3-series goes from $35k to $25k and the Chrysler 200 goes from $20k to $10k.

Now let's go back to the more important part... where you live in relation to your work. Every minute you're driving on your own time is on your own dime. That means you're paying to go to work in both vehicle maintenance/consumables and fixed dollars... plus lost time at home. So if there is no compelling reason to live far from work then why do it? Let's say you live an hour from work and you work 5 days on premises. That means you work "for free" for 250 hours per year versus someone that commutes half an hour.

What I'm getting at is why would you want to spend two hours per day in a shitbox if it doesn't cost much more to have something quiet and enjoyable like a used CTS or MKX or BMW 5-series if it costs about the same per mile? Further, why not consider moving closer to work or bringing work closer to home?

Lastly, consider asking to work from home.

No, as usual you put thought into only your own situation and failed to grasp that everyone else's situation, and that they themselves(thankfully), are different from you and doing things for a different reason. I'm still waiting for you to figure out that other do things differently from you and that maybe, just MAYBE, you're not the smartest person in the room. No luck so far.



Yep, I drive a Subaru. They have a well earned reputations for being lesbian cars. I'm okay with that, I'll muff dive with the best of them. Mine's not a forest green wagon so that helps out my street cred at least a little bit. It's the sportiest non-turbo sedan they offer and it's about as fun as an econobox can get IMO.

Want some math? Fine. $120 to plate isn't far off. I think it's a little less but close enough. About $70/month insurance, so about $960 a year to own.

I drive about 25k miles a year. At 27mpg on the low end, that's 925 gallons, or $1850 in fuel at $2/gal, which I think we can all agree is below the average over the past 3+ years.

If I were driving my truck at 13.5mpg average, which is both the correct number and makes the math really easy since it's 1/2 the mpg of the Lezbaru, that's 1850 gallons or $3700.

So on the low end, driving the car saves me $1850 in fuel. Owning the car costs $960 so that means just the basics save me $890 a year. Then there's the fact that maintenance IS a lot cheaper than the truck. Parts are half the size and not far from half the price. Tires last almost twice as long. Oil capacity is almost half as much.

Then there's the fact that I've got about $4k into the car. I got it with 76k miles on it, have put that many on it again and I could turn around and sell it for damn near the same price again. (Buying a $20-30k car like you're talking about for an econobox is just stupid. That's not economical at all and isn't what this thread was even based on, so I won't even get into that. And yes, I'd rather drive my car than a CTS or 5 series. It gets better mileage, more fun factor, doesn't burn 2 quarts of oil between changes, and my turn signals work in traffic.)
If I had put that many miles on my truck, besides the extra maintenance costs I would have had to pay, its value would have dropped by at least $3k, or even more if it were a nicer truck like that fancy new stuff you buy. Don't even get me started on the depreciation you're putting on that truck. That alone could pay for every vehicle in my driveway.

I live less than 35 miles from work and typically spend 35 minutes in the car each way. That's not bad. I love my house, love where I live, and have zero complaints about that situation. My previous job was 40 miles and about 55 minutes each way. It was a bit much but still 100% worthwhile. Want some numbers to throw at it? Fine. Living 10 miles from work would cost conservatively $75k more for the same house on the same property in a nearby location, and probably another $1k a year in property taxes. I'm not even gonna do the math on the payback of that because I know it's not there for me. And I'd still be living somewhere I don't want to live. That's not about money, that's about happiness.

You starting to get it yet? I only did this because I don't feel like going to bed yet and it was easy math. It's all a moot point because this entire thing comes down to personal preference. People can and will do whatever the fuck they want. It doesn't make them wrong. But despite doing what I wanted to do, the math still works out greatly in my favor.

Enjoy driving your $45k truck(assuming you got a helluva deal on it) for 5 years and selling it for $20k at best. I'll enjoy driving my $4k car(really, I do enjoy it) for 5 years and selling it for $3k. Look at that, I just paid for my Jeep habit by not wasting money.

#dropsmic

No, I thought about it a lot, especially when I was choosing where to live and work. I see a lot of people that go through the same thought process and pick different things. I prefer not to be the smartest person in the room because then I have a chance at learning something.





Probably, I'd think about a Subaru for a shitbox also.

I had a Pontiac G6 that I bought new. Once we were done with it I kept it around an entire year and drove it less than 1500 miles. It just wasn't worth driving 3 vehicles around for maintenance reasons and the fuel difference even when it was $4/gallon worked out to 2 gallons per day for the G6 and 3 gallons per day for my truck. I get cheap insurance (MEEMIC) so I was ahead of the game. I bought the car for $22k and sold it 6.5 years later for $7k with 80k on the clock. Tires, brakes, shocks, struts one time. Even if I drove the car exclusively it wouldn't cover the cost of plates and insurance.

I bought my last truck for $29k out the door and sold it for $17k 6 years later with 113k on the clock. Tires and brakes one time. So, $12k in depreciation in 6 years or $166/month. G6... $184/month. Let's say I bought a used $15k Taurus SHO and sold it 5 years later for $6k or $150/month. How many trips to the lumber yard is that $16/month worth? Are plates and insurance free? Or is that "luxury of a third car" a tax of convenience when you don't want to change the oil on one and will "get to it on the weekend"?



My new truck averages 18-20mpg. If I'd keep it below 80 or not use the remote start excessively it'd do better. My wife's AWD 4 banger Equinox only gets 21-24mpg. The G6 got 24-30 depending on remote start abuse.



My 1984 K10 got better mileage than that. So, I wouldn't drive a 13.5mpg truck either as a commuter. I also wouldn't drive a Yaris. Picking some bad gas mileage 3/4 ton truck or some crew cab long box dually V10 Ford 4x4 as a baseline isn't a fair comparison.



Would it save you $1850 in fuel if you factored all the times you couldn't stop somewhere and pick something up because you didn't have a truck? I stop at the home improvement stores all the time on the way home from work (it's on the way) so I don't have to go to town as much. And I'm a lot closer to town than you are.

The last 6 vehicles I have owned (a couple Equinox, a couple trucks, the G5 we only had for 6600 miles, and the G6) have had zero maintenance other than oil changes, air filter once, wiper blades, brakes, and tires with the exception of the G6 I did replace the shocks and struts trying to quiet down the interior. Not even a headlight bulb replacement. The last two Equinoxes and this current truck I don't even have to do the first 4 oil changes. But yes, 8 quarts into my new truck is a bit pricey.



You got a deal on the car.

If you look at the used prices on a CTS they're pretty cheap.



I buy the "fancy stuff" because the math isn't that bad and I get a deal on insurance. It's nice to get into a vehicle that is fairly new. I never thought I'd like heated steering wheels... makes me think I should start wearing tapered leg jeans with the cuffs rolled up and a hemp necklace.

The depreciation on the new truck is probably going to hurt... if the last ten years is an indicator of the future I'll probably sell it for $17k less than I paid for it in 6 years. Might seem like a lot but if the past is any indicator that's pretty much all I'll "lose". I can't drive a shitbox to work every day because I do have to have people in my vehicle with me a couple times per week. So, I've got perception to deal with also. Ever noticed the people that get paid a lot and get the best raises have the nicest vehicles and whatnot? It's silly but my boss drives a 15 year old Toyota Camry and I make more money than him. I'm sure I'll get a better raise than him also this year but I digress... I also never did figure out how to stuff 8' lumber in the G6.

I'm willing to pay the extra "tax" of driving something nice. It's never depressing to get into a 6.2L truck. There is a reason when you're commuting into work you see all those people driving nice cars on their long commutes. It's not always to keep up with the Smiths.



I live 24 miles from work and 18 of it is the expressway and it takes me 25 minutes (assuming I've left by 6am). So, I don't know how you're averaging a mile per minute where you live. But anyway, it's only when it's approaching an hour you should probably look at it. Half an hour is reasonable.

I don't blame you for wanting to live where you do. It's a nice area. I prefer to live in an area where I'm the hilljack country bumpkin instead of living in an area full of hilljack country bumpkins.

You never did factor in time, or what your own time is worth. Your made-up house is about a $600/month payment. Assuming you make $60/hr and pay 25% in taxes then that's 13 hours per month you'd be paying for civilization being nearby. What are you going to do when the kidlet wants to go to soccer practice, play hockey, etc? Then you're driving for how long into town all the time? How long does it take you to go to the movies or a real grocery store? It's the same reason why I ended up buying the house I did.



I don't think you did all the math and I don't think you factored in your own time. But that is up to you. I'd rather work on my mud truck than a 10 year old Subaru that gets me back and forth to work. And I like my heated steering wheel, my power folding camper mirrors, and the fact I never have to work on it.

I also don't think you factored in depreciation on two vehicles. A truck like my old one was for sale for $3k more with only 40k on the clock... and it was a LTZ with a 6.2L. So depreciation of something around 100k or less seems to be based on age more than miles.



I actually did get it for $44k and change... I think it went a little over because I rolled plates into the sale price. I never thought I'd pay more in sales tax than I did for the entire purchase cost of most of my previous cars. And yes, I felt stupid for it, but I got out Excel and it didn't seem unreasonable.

I don't think you're only spending $1k to drive it for 5 years but that is OK. And do I think driving my truck is 10x better than your car? Or on the perceived depreciation, 17x better? Probably not, but I suspect your car would get sold if you looked at the costs. But I wouldn't enjoy driving a fat, slow, 3/4 ton truck that rode terribly every day either so maybe I'd keep the car.



OctothorpeWhiskeyTangoFoxtrotAreWeInHighSchoolAgain?

Should I say "stat" or something to sound cool? I don't know how this works.

daily driving a $3k truck 25k a year doesn't often make a lot of sense either, unless you want to spend all of your free time wrenching on said truck.

It's different for someone like you that lives 4 miles from work.

When I commuted, I was driving 120 miles a day, add in a few trips to the grocery store or to home depot and it was out of control.

Skoots owns a diesel truck, just the tires and oil changes are a consideration.

Having a dedicated commuter beater isn't for everyone. But if I ever go back to commuting I won't think twice. I already drive 20k a year for personal use.

No, I'm not missing the point. That response was to Wrath's claim that driving a shitbox doesn't make sense because it isn't what he wants. Your situation, and everybody else's on here is different. I've said half a dozen times that it comes down to personal preference. You prefer to drive a beater truck. This thread is about someone who wants to drive a beater car. Is either one wrong? No, because it's what they want to do with their money. Based on the math for many of us, the financial gain of a beater car lines up well with our desire to do so. It doesn't for you and that's perfectly fine. Even if it doesn't help financially it's still fine, cuz it's your money and your desire.


Wrath, I'm not doing another long ass response to your last post. The math is there, it saves me money, it fits damn well for my situation, and more importantly, it's what I want to do. I come out ahead, period. Justify your situation to yourself all you want, it doesn't mean it's right for anyone else but you. That doesn't make you wrong. What makes you wrong is suggesting that everybody who doesn't follow your model for your situation must then be wrong.

IMHO in today's world picking your house based on your job location is ridiculous. It doesn't seem like people stay at jobs long enough to make that commitment. Maybe it make sense if you are a UAW guy that's going to be a lifer at one plant, but most professional people I know bounce around from time to time. So the what was a half hour drive to work when you bought your house might end up being an hour drive for the next job.

How did housing proximity to work even become a talking point? Isn't Skoots looking for a cheap DD, not a new house or a new job?

The only correct thing about this statement would be premium fuel and higher insurance. The turbo does not effect longevity of a wrx. Plenty of have proven their worth with well over 200,000 to 250,000 miles all original. I had a 2004 wrx with only a cobb tuner I was getting 28 mpg consistently and I didn't drive it gingerly either. Maintenance is almost no difference you run synthetic oil and change every 3750 miles. But Insurance for myself was about $770 every 6 months with a clean record. So that sucked a little bit.

he's also correct about the mileage. Our 2015 Impreza is rated to get 38 highway. A friend has a 2012 WRX and gets 22-24 mixed driving. We're seeing 30 mixed driving. Regardless of it we run the shit out of it, or pussy foot it, we've yet to drop below 27. My 99 RS 2.5 coupe was getting 27mpg with me beating the piss out of it. Your claimed mileage is higher than anyone I have personally spoke to about mileage, you also had a tuner which may or may not have helped contribute to your better economy.

I'm told once we hit around 5-6k our mileage should improve. We'll see, with gas at $2 right now we don't really care.

My dad owned a WRX, as have numerous friends, and I understand how internal combustion engines work, so I can confidently say that you're wrong. I'm not saying WRXs are bad cars by any means, I love those things. They're just not as good of choices for econoboxes. If you use the turbo they'll use more fuel, period. If you use the turbo it'll put more wear and tear on everything, period. It's got more moving parts and is putting in more pressurized air, putting more stress on everything and requiring more fuel. That's just how it works.

The fact that the more powerful wrx doesn't have to work as hard to do the same job, and a more efficient tune will both help mpg. I'll give you that. But they're not going to defy physics. If you drive a WRX like you drive a 2.5RS the WRX will get worse mileage.

Add in the the likelihood of a performance car like a wrx having been abused more by a previous owner and the likelihood of damage or premature wear increases. So potential maintenance costs go up even more. Again, potential.

I agree with this one hundred times over. I am also a lesbian wagon driver myself.

I bought my 97 subaru legacy wagon in August for $1800 with 120k. Put 15k miles on it already with only replacing battery (seller told me it'd need one), starter (45 minutes tops in my driveway), and front rotors... I love it. I have the one with the 2.2 as opposed to the 2.5. A little less power but supposedly doesn't come with the inherent head gasket issues.

They're under the radar, get no attention. Very utilitarian, I can haul anything I want with the seats folded down. Great for long road trips and camping, both of which I do often.

Driving it like a jackass I get 22 mpg around town and average out 27-28 on highway trips.

AWD in the snow is a must and literally cuts through the two track I never plow out to my pole barn every time I've asked it to. For an $1800 car I can throw stuff in the back, scratch it on whatever, and not care. I've strapped my canoe on the factory rack and drove all over the UP with no issues.

Only thing I wish was different is that it was a manual, but for the deal I got I took the auto.

I need it to last me another 2 years until I'm done with school and on my feet a bit, and I have no hesitations it will. At which point I'll either keep it or sell it to someone else for a solid 1300-1800 and be at little if no loss, and get 3 years out of a car.

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

You're just arguing to argue with nonsensical responses.

I said:


So, that's the personal opinion response. Later I elaborated that you need to do the math to see if it truly makes sense. I've seen plenty of people go through the effort of plating, insuring, maintaining, and depreciating two vehicles instead of one in the perception of "saving their good vehicle". It's different if it's a special vehicle of some sort like a Bugatti and you're going to drive a 1999 Corolla, it's different if it's going to be a generic pickup and some econobox.

Lastly, the part I implored upon is that there is an opportunity cost associated with driving an antique econobox everywhere. First, it's not particularly enjoyable as compared to something modern. Second, you can't haul much in an econobox so every time I have to make a special trip that costs me time and I value my time at a rate that must be significantly greater than you. Third, I don't like working on crap I don't like and I find it irritating working on a commuter (my fat ass would rather split wood with a maul). Fourth, what are you going to do when your econobox fails you when the kiddo needs to get to a soccer tournament? Fifth, people think you're poor and it costs you. That is just stuff that matters to me and it may not matter to you. However, it matters to most people.



So what you're saying there is that the only thing that matters is what matters to you and because the math works for you everyone should go through the same efforts to drive an econobox like you. Do you have any black pots in your house?

In one response you're saying that it's ridiculous to pick your house based on your job location and you're saying that you don't stay in a job long enough to make that kind of commitment. So why not get a different job that is closer to home like I suggested? Unless you truly enjoy driving an econobox, I consider driving unpaid work time and reduces my hourly average wage.

My whole point has been that look "outside of the BillyBadAssSubaru" mindset of driving an econobox daily driver and look at all the variables and options to see if it really makes sense. I already *had* a commuter car that I bought new and owned naturally (was the wife's car) and it didn't make sense to keep it and we had the luxury of cheap full coverage insurance on it ($55/month).

And I'm not alone in my discovery of this. I know plenty of people that used to have two vehicles and went down to one. I actually think this phenomenon is a leftover from a cash-for-clunkers and economic downturn that keeps used vehicle prices high. So, my friend that used to have a 1/2 ton 2009 F150 (bought used) and a 2008 Civic coupe (bought new) replaced them both with a brand new Outback with a trailer hitch. He has a 58 mile commute, 55 of it on I94. He specifically had that Civic because 99.99% of the miles he drives he needs no utility. If anyone there ever was made sense to have a commuter car it was him.

If I had to drive an econobox I'd have a Cobalt XFE manual or a Subaru Imprezza 2.5RS. Equally reliable, equally easy to work on, equally inexpensive parts to buy, equally boring, and equally expensive to insure.

I drive about 80 miles a day (work only). I've done the commute car. Was given a 95 G. Marquis. Put $800 into it in repairs at purchase and put 20k on it and sold it for $1k. I got 21-23 mpg. It was great. Comfy, rode awesome. I owned a v10 f250 that barely got 11 empty. When I sold the v10 and bought my 06 6.0 f250 I sold the car. The 06 was 16-18 mpg and I drove that everyday instead.

I now have a 2010 Cummins getting the same mileage as the 06. But I've spent alot more to aquire the Cummins. I plan to drive it through the winter and start driving something else when the weather turns to keep miles off it.

But I won't be looking for a "economy car". I'm hoping I can either get my Galaxie drivable and drive that, or alternate the drive between my jeep and truck.

For some reason I've always wanted a miata. Maybe I'll buy one if those instead :teehee:.

This is just part of living in Michigan. I drive cheap junk because I like to drive cheap junk. I did not drive the Camaro last winter because of epic snow. No snow this year so I am enjoying the heated leather bun warmers.

Point is- cars suck as an investment. Unless you are just flipping them, you will always lose money. Might as well get enjoyment out of the depreciation rather than let it eat you up.

If it makes you feel better to get a beater, do it. But no matter how you skew the numbers, cars are always a losing proposition.

Oh they're gonna lose you money every time. They're a tool to get a job done. The job isn't the same for everyone. Some want to get from A to B as cheaply as possible, some are taking customers golfing, trying to impress chicks at the mall, get the ultimate driving experience, you name it. It's just a matter of how people can set things up for their own situation to spend the least money, have the most fun, waste the least time, or whatever outcome it is that they desire. Applying your own desires, your own math model, and your own made up variables to someone else's situation to tell them that they're wrong is where things get stupid. Arguing for the sake of arguing and whatnot.

So many long posts to read :teehee:

 

I like my little Mazda Protege 2.0 NA 5 speed. Picked it up from a dealer in Lowel who took it on trade for $300 out the door. It needed a mirror and front bearings and looks like someone took a bat to the body. But, I drove the thing home for $300. I have around $700 into it and drive the thing like I am mad at it.

194k or so and it just keeps running. No electronic traction control or other things makes for a fun little car, limited slip front axle also.

I don't know what has been done to it if anything. Someone put a bit of cash into a new modest stock looking exhaust at the very least on the thing.It is quiet at idle until you get on it. My next puddle jumper may be a Mazda after all the abuse this thing has taken in the couple months I have had it. It has all the options you could get with the 4 bolt rims and everything still works perfectly.

Two small vices.
The alternator sometimes squeaks when it first starts up and may last for a few seconds. It is a belt design thing and it is a common issue. If you tighten the accessory belt more it kills the alternator bearings. Just something to live with during the first few seconds.
Not having any kind of traction control and like new high mileage hard tires has made me a bit more careful in the snow. It is probably for the best as I tend to rely on these features even when I know it is stupid to do so when i have them.

 

Want to buy my fiat?

 

Have you considered a ruckus?

 

Always love a good cat fight.

 

Yes but this one is old. Can we just cover both cats in gas and see how long they continue bickerering with a open flame between them?


If you want something good on gas it is going to be slow.

If you want something fast it will require work to keep it reliable.

If you want a mix of the two it will be expensive, modern and full of electronics.

Be realistic with what you can get for what you got to spend. There will always be something better out there. The cheaper you go the more the number of better things grows.

Sometimes you just need to drive what gets you from a to b reliably. Gas mileage and 0 to 60 do not mean a dang thing if your stuck on the side of the road.


For around $1200 you can find a 10 to 15 year old reliable car on Craig's list after searching for a few days. Drive it home, insure, then drive it for a year or two until something expensive brakes. Tear it apart selling the engine and/or trans, seats, doors, rims, steering, dash, etc then scrap the rest for around $400 recoupe.

Enough screwing around back to work on the never ending project.