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Direct Drive FTW
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2,461 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, on the legal side of my build I am trying to get a answer to this question.

I am taking a 69 cj down to the stock frame installing a roll cage/body made of plastic (to avoid rusting) that has (rough) dimensions close to that of the stock cj-5. I plan on retaining the frame, grill skin(face), and the firewall. I am building then entire tub from the ground up using the firewall in a attempt to call it a 69.

The state says a "assembled" is

1. One built (assembled) from new or used materials and parts by someone not recognized as a manufacturer (usually an individual). Example: homemade vehicle.
2. One altered or modified to the extent that it no longer reflects its original manufacturer configuration. Example: a Volkswagen made into a dune buggy.
3. One which has had its body replaced with that from another vehicle. Example: pickup truck has its cab replaced.
4. One assembled from a kit (often called "kit cars"), even if a Manufacturers Certificate of Origin is provided.

So basically it would seem I fit into the top 3 right off. But, most of the cj-5 tubs I see running around are half tubs at best with most of the tub replaced due to rust and are registered as there original year.

Two things concern me. Insuring it as a oh lets just say 2012 cj-5 that will probably be called a buggy and what type of emissions bs will be required on this.
I plan on running PLPD because I am pretty much making the body with the idea of that soccer mom slamming her door into it or someone "bumping" it in a parking lot leaving nothing more then a scratch. Instead of crumpling my fender and causing the WTF I just painted this AGAIN response.

As for emissions it is a small concern right now. I will be running propane and although I will be running a y pipe into a cat before a muffler it is to reduce noise more then anything.

All the wheels will be covered (on road) with a 3 inch overhang past the tire. It will have all the marking lights, mirrors and other legal stuff in the legal spots. It will stop without issue and I am actually designing it to take quite a hard side impact(a small concern in a cj for me).


So, is there any way to call this thing a 69? Should I just kind of forget to mention the mods and insure it with PLPD just like normal.

Figure there are tons of heavily modified street driven rigs on here and I would get a good amount of advise on the right way to go about the legal side of what is needed to be "kept" to keep this from being called a full blown assembled vehicle.

Thank you.
 

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Direct Drive FTW
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2,461 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I do have the title in my name with the numbers on the firewall matching and the frame numbers matching.

The emissions would be more of a concern if I moved into a emissions state with this being titled as a 2012 or whatever.
 

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skillicous
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12,844 Posts
just leave it titled as a 69 CJ5
 

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Sore and Tired 24/7
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13,044 Posts
If you leave it as a 69 can't you get super cheap insurance through grundy or one of the other classic car ins companies.
 

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Registered
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5,329 Posts
you don't need cats. Propane burns super clean.

what you're doing is no different than swapping the tub on a CJ with a fiberglass one... you'll be fine
 

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Premium Member
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9,322 Posts
what you're doing is no different than swapping the tub on a CJ with a fiberglass one... you'll be fine[/QUOTE]

No different but still not reall legal. Glass body CJ really are supposed to have an assembled title per number 3 above


"One which has had its body replaced with that from another vehicle. Example: pickup truck has its cab replaced"
 

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Coil springs are for pens
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3,453 Posts
If you leave it as a 69 can't you get super cheap insurance through grundy or one of the other classic car ins companies.
They will not insure a vehicle that is taken off road.... as well as a huge list of other mods that will exclude the vehicle. I tried Haggerty, Grundy and a host of others. They want a showpiece that gets about 1k miles or less a year put on it.

just leave it titled as a 69 CJ5

If you want to run it as a 69' I'd be giving all this info as well as a list of other modifications to your insurance agent and asking him if his company will cover the vehicle in a crash. Better to find out now than when someone gets hurt and your insurance company walks away from you because you failed to disclose any type of 'performance' modifications or that the vehicle was assembled?

Read your insurance fine print!

I know a gal that just lost a $9600+ claim because she lied and said her Mustang was stock. When the adjuster looked at the damaged car and saw it was aftermarket supercharged he told her they were not giving her a dime and to find a new insurance company.
 

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I carry a shank
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4,543 Posts
It's an assembled vehicle.
 

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Registered
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1,196 Posts
I just assembled a bike, I had to have a bill of sale for the good frame, and good motor, they checked both checked lights and branded it a 2010. There were no emissions test or emissions sticker. A State trooper inspected it.
 

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Direct Drive FTW
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2,461 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I Know Haggerty /Grundy wont touch non stock items. This started out as a restoration but after I was told that and concerns of what would happen in a side impact in stock form the low cost insurance did not seem work risking my life over. I'm not looking to get historic tags or anything like that I just figure I will get charged a higher rate on insurance if it is listed as a never vehicle.
The emissions thing is a small concern but something I still need to think about cause this will be a secondary ride that will be road legal. I do plan on driving this and keeping it for a good amount of time as a driver with weekend trail use.

Last thing I want is to put all the work and money into this and find out it can not be driven on the roads. I am making the body/cage rather simplistic and stout so if I do hit a deer or something it can be repaired within a few days. I have heard good things about state farm as far as insurance with on road and off road.

The cat is more for keeping it quiet then emissions at this point. But it will also let me answer yes if a officer does ask if it has a cat.

The concern lies in what happens if Billy runs a red light in his Super duty and pushes me into a Motorcycle or something. I am building this dual cage to keep my butt in good shape in that scenario. But think I would injure the motorcycle badly. I want this thing Legal for use on the street as it will be driven on the street. If I can do that by just using the existing firewall and welding that to the tube frame great. But I do not want a issue where the family of the person on the motorcycle can say I should not have been on the road.

So I should look into getting it titled as a Assembled Vehicle? At what point can I do that? It would seem it would need to be fully completed and in running condition to be looked over. I do plan on using Flat DOT approved glass in all the glass areas. It is based off of the original cj-5 dimensions and will sit close to stock height and have stock length.

I have a bar along the top of the windshield that once 2 bolts are removed will slide out sideways so the windshield and top can be removed. There is also the rear outer upright bars that hold in the side glass that can be slid out the back once bolts are removed. There is one more in the rear tailgate bar that can be slid out the bottom held in with bolts that holds in the rear glass. Now these are more of a cosmetic bars not supporting the inner cage and will retain the glass and top panels in a crash or roll over by having a 1" lip encasing or holding(tongue and groove) the edge all the way around.
This is far superior then many methods or retaining movable glass today. This is also a main feature in the design of this vehicle. From a security stand point these panels are being designed to be virtually un removable unless inside the vehicle. The glass can be slid out and plastic panels put in there place to "close up" the vehicle making for a weather(hail)/ theft proof design. How can I make sure that the inspector will not say "no you can not have that on the road"?
 

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Direct Drive FTW
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2,461 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I assumed the tub on a 69 jeep would be completely rotted away. The frame was what I was looking at with the body going to be replaced or trashed. But after looking at the body more despite the sides being covered in a lot of bondo this one is in rather good condition.

If this needs to be titled as a assembled vehicle making the existing firewall useless it would be a shame to cut it out of the tub. I am going to take the badges no matter what so if I do need them I have them. But, if I could get rid of the tub and such as a "trail" or restoration tub then it will not be a total waste. Otherwise the tub will be cut up after taking final measurements to save time and get at the frame faster.
 
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