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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
I think you should go play paintball so you know what fear does to you.

Your first plan should be to escape and evade. Good cardio, constantly "scanning and focusing", and paying attention to your "spider sense". You can use simple excuses at work by saying "need a bio break" or when going to the store "forgot my wallet in the car". If you're out and about you can say "dog wasn't feeling well".

I will say that police officers are what make me the most nervous. The overwhelming majority are Barney Fife.
My friend that taught the class said that most officers that get into high stress situations will have a heart rate of over 200 bpm. He says that when he trains guys to do this his goal is to get them to have normal heart beat in high stress situations.
He is SWAT trained and instructor. He teaches self defense, Krav Magra Israeli defense forces style fighting. He says there are plenty of guys throughout different dept. that mostly rely on their weapons that they have on them and the minimal training required. He says he really works to get more guys highly trained. Physical and mentally prepared for every kind of situation.
 

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Yooper In Training
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I think you should go play paintball so you know what fear does to you.

Your first plan should be to escape and evade. Good cardio, constantly "scanning and focusing", and paying attention to your "spider sense". You can use simple excuses at work by saying "need a bio break" or when going to the store "forgot my wallet in the car". If you're out and about you can say "dog wasn't feeling well".

I will say that police officers are what make me the most nervous. The overwhelming majority are Barney Fife.
Paintball isn't gonna do shit. It's a kid's game. It stings a little, but there's still no real consequence, no real stress, just simulated scenarios with no tangible real risk. If you're wanting to actually simulate a scenario that's going to make you REALLY think about consequence play with tazers or something. Seriously. I get your point, but paintball sure as hell isn't going to simulate real life-or-death stress. Hell, at least make it paintball roullette and put 25% of them in the freezer for a day first.
 

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I'll Direc your TV
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Paintball isn't gonna do shit. It's a kid's game. It stings a little, but there's still no real consequence, no real stress, just simulated scenarios with no tangible real risk. If you're wanting to actually simulate a scenario that's going to make you REALLY think about consequence play with tazers or something. Seriously. I get your point, but paintball sure as hell isn't going to simulate real life-or-death stress. Hell, at least make it paintball roullette and put 25% of them in the freezer for a day first.
Not real life stress, but at least it will get your heart rate up and adrenaline pumping. Better than sitting in a classroom.
 

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Yooper In Training
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Not real life stress, but at least it will get your heart rate up and adrenaline pumping. Better than sitting in a classroom.
Yes I agree there, but still not even remotely close to a real scenario.
 

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Desert Rat
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Classes like this are great. Your employer checks a box, the instructors share information, the class pick up something new, we cut it up here, someone else discusses it on another web site, the world is a better place. Safety, Safety, Safety!

It was always easy for me to teach fire prevention because I believed in what I was selling.
It boils down to what you do every day. Do you look for exits when you are in a large building? Have you ever checked an emergency exit for no reason? Do you notice fire extinguishers? Have you ever been in a building that was evacuated for an emergency? Do you carry a gun? If yes, do you always carry?
When the local alarm sound most people will stop, look and see what everyone else is doing. Monkey see, monkey do. If they decide to evacuate they will go for the way they came in.
I know, we are talking about shootings and suck, but to me it is the same. GTFO.

When Cape Fear was in the box office I took a date to see it in Reno, Nv.
Around the scene where DeNiro come out from under the car, everyone in the theater started looking to the back of the center isle. When Sandy looked back, I did as well. Saw nothing but people starting to stand up and move about. I looked back to the movie, then looked back again. When the double doors at the top of the center aisle opened all I could see was fire and flame on the other side. People were getting up and moving TOWARD the double doors. Sandy is saying something like “you’re a fireman, shouldn’t you do something“. I was, I grabbed her arm and was dragging her to the exits on the side of the screen. I was straight arming people in my way, most were moving to the back of the theater where the fire was or standing in the aisle. We were the first ones out the emergency exit. There were maybe twenty people in the parking lot. A couple of Reno engine companies were out front. I would guess 200 or so people stayed in the theater.
Directly across from the double doors was a padded bench that someone lit on fire. When the doors opened, from my vantage point, the hallway was fully engulfed.
Sandy was well bruised from me pulling her across the chairs.
We got tickets to watch it again, but it seemed pretty boring after that.
Good times!
 

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Project Antitube
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You need to play real paintball, not just the shit where you take a $40 marker and toss around the yard a bit. A professional .68 marker is around 25ftlbs of muzzle energy, or about half that of a recurve bow. So at 10-20ft it hurts like hell. And can kill small animals. And dent cars (don't tell my wife).

There are a ton of outfits that do milsim training in Pinckney/Hell at the paintball fields. It's a hoot and way better than sitting in a classroom learning about run > hide > fight > die. There are places all over the state where you can do other similar training where there is a real fake active shooter and you only have your red swingline to save you. Then there are other places where you can do real training with real firearms.

Some of the places that do IDPA and USPSA will offer other courses through different people. Less IDPA because it tends to be full of old fat slow people. IPSC is less common so USPSA matches are good places to find this stuff. Anyway, plenty of opportunities and even the places where they practice Fuddlore you can glean something.



Life or death stress... not going to find that out until it's too late. The exhilaration of "running for your life" in paintball is as close as you're probably going to get. Your brain works differently and your body responds differently when you're running on adrenaline or even just rapidly switch from sedentary desk job to hasty exit stage right.

You can do airsoft, but it's not as real to me because you usually have to call your shots because you probably won't feel it. There is no faking a miss with paintball. Most places won't let you crank it up so they are closer to 1ftlb of energy instead of the ~2.5ftlb they can do... which does hurt like hell on unprotected skin like necks and wrists. The nice thing about airsoft is you don't get dirty but that's about it. You can also use "real steel" gear with it because magazines fit in standard pouches, etc, but everything is lighter with airsoft and the round count is unreasonable per magazine. Anyway, that's beyond the scope of ALICE.



I've been in training before where we have a room full of airsoft pistols sitting around and we are actively being trained on active shooters... and a fake active shooter storms the room. You could see they do it the same way every time because of the damage to one desk and the floor (from the active shooter flipping the table). 3/4 of the people sat there like they were watching a Netflix documentary on the first attempt. At the end of the day when we were back in the classroom "wrapping up" they did it again and only a few people panicked but one of them actually fell and hit their head. One of the guys argued that he counted the total number of people he saw all day... all of us were in the conference room... and it wasn't possible for anyone to be in the building per our training so that is why he was surprised. Well, some asshole can prop a door open...
 

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Classes like this are great. Your employer checks a box, the instructors share information, the class pick up something new, we cut it up here, someone else discusses it on another web site, the world is a better place. Safety, Safety, Safety!

It was always easy for me to teach fire prevention because I believed in what I was selling.
It boils down to what you do every day. Do you look for exits when you are in a large building? Have you ever checked an emergency exit for no reason? Do you notice fire extinguishers? Have you ever been in a building that was evacuated for an emergency? Do you carry a gun? If yes, do you always carry?
When the local alarm sound most people will stop, look and see what everyone else is doing. Monkey see, monkey do. If they decide to evacuate they will go for the way they came in.
I know, we are talking about shootings and suck, but to me it is the same. GTFO.

When Cape Fear was in the box office I took a date to see it in Reno, Nv.
Around the scene where DeNiro come out from under the car, everyone in the theater started looking to the back of the center isle. When Sandy looked back, I did as well. Saw nothing but people starting to stand up and move about. I looked back to the movie, then looked back again. When the double doors at the top of the center aisle opened all I could see was fire and flame on the other side. People were getting up and moving TOWARD the double doors. Sandy is saying something like “you’re a fireman, shouldn’t you do something“. I was, I grabbed her arm and was dragging her to the exits on the side of the screen. I was straight arming people in my way, most were moving to the back of the theater where the fire was or standing in the aisle. We were the first ones out the emergency exit. There were maybe twenty people in the parking lot. A couple of Reno engine companies were out front. I would guess 200 or so people stayed in the theater.
Directly across from the double doors was a padded bench that someone lit on fire. When the doors opened, from my vantage point, the hallway was fully engulfed.
Sandy was well bruised from me pulling her across the chairs.
We got tickets to watch it again, but it seemed pretty boring after that.
Good times!
You are correct... In school children are taught that Fire alarms are an annoyance more than an alert system. They only teach you to acknowledge them. The act of lining up and waking slowly out the building is completely organized and conducted by the teachers. In order for adults to go to the exits and walk out, they need a conductor...i too have witnessed this. We were in Dayton Ohio staying the night in a hotel on our way back from Tennessee on spring break. About midnight the fire alarms start wailing...i get up and grab the kids and wife and head to the stairwell. We were on the 4th floor of 5. I carried my daughter and kept my other 2 daughters in front of me. My wife led the charge and my boy right behind me helping old people with the doors. We didn't run, we didn't scream, we just walked briskly down the stairs and went into the parking lot. There were maybe 10 others heading down the stairs with us. When we got down there were only about 25 people total in the lot... the hotel was packed. My wife was shocked. I wasn't. It was a false alarm, but i don't care. What if it wasn't? Then i get to try to carry my daughter and keep my other kids close by while there are 300 other people trying to vacate the building and save their own lives??? Fuck that. I'm going to be safer then sorry. I had a room key, shoes on my feet, truck keys and could get the hell out of there without my bags without a worry as long as my kids are good. Whatever, i lost 15 minutes of sleep for nothing, but if there were some sort of emergency, we were gtg because I'm not waiting for a conductor and chaos to ensue.
It's probably because I'm life Safety as well...

I know a fire Marshall who told me a story about a fire alarm at a hotel he was at..
He stated "my wife wanted to leave, but i told her to stay put because this building is fully sprinklered. It ain't going to burn." I lost the last shred of respect for that fool that day. Mother fucker, i install fire sprinklers for a living. I believe in them fully. The building i vacated was also sprinkled, but i don't trust someone else to have
(A. Done it right
(B. Turned every valve on
(C. Checked all piping before installation for obstructions, and every mech fitting's cookie has been removed and accounted for
(D. Completed the countless other checks and balances to insure a proper system discharge in the case of emergency


Dumb people are everywhere... even in life safety positions
 
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