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Project Antitube
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run.... hide fight call.

It's about knowing your surroundings, exit strategy, and good cardio.

A lot of people think they're a sheepdog amongst sheep. The problem is that they still die but with a yip instead of a bleat.

If there is less than 20' between you and the person with a firearm, and they are not at high ready or low ready, there is a good chance that you can close that gap before they can yeet you. The person with the gun is going to try to maintain control of the firearm, all you have to do is stick your thumb in their eye and you win.

Never do battle with an opponent with a knife. If in a knife fight, the victor dies in the ambulance while the loser dies on scene.
 

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I'll Direc your TV
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The problem with those ALICE training classes, is that is all most people take. One or two of them , and never do anything more. IMO it's worse than not taking them at all; people get a false sense of confidence thinking "ok, yea, all this makes sense"; and "I feel better educated now, maybe I wont be perfect, but I have good ideas on what to do", except it's never the "right" kind of ALICE training. It's for companies to think they're helping and avoid lawsuits, and for people to make themselves feel better. nothing more.

It's looks practice shooting; almost everyone can become a good marksman when shooting at a nice fluffy range, in a covered deck, with nice stationary targets. it's a hell of a lot different than standing in the middle of a mall, or a movie theater, with people running and screaming all around you, general panic and disorder. Good luck trying to "take a breath" and "focus" for your shot. Same thing with this training; it's always in a nice office, or classroom, or meeting room, snacks, everyone is generally comfy, bathroom breaks when you need to go...etc. Deer hunters among us know what i'm talking about; every meet someone that can't hit shit from the blind even though they go the range every Saturday, and drop dimes on paper? Same thing, all fancy, comfy target shooting; but when the adrenaline hits and that 10pt is at a trot 180 yards down range, heat beating out of your chest, sitting on an office chair that was old 10 years ago, gun hanging out of a window...it's a different story.

You want to actually get ALICE training; do it with the AC off,90 degrees in there, or no heat in the dead of winter, everyone drinks a liter of water before the 8 hour class starts, and no breaks, no snacks with yelling and screaming playing over a speaker in the background. or just a plain siren going non-stop for the entire 8 hours class. Get your heart rate up, adrenaline pumping, then try to practice proper ALICE techniques.

The class you just described above is what is called a "see we're helping" class.
 

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Project Antitube
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Knowing your surroundings is imperative. Your first instinct is to escape and evade before it even gets to a moment of potential issue. I've had bad feelings about a place and time and just go back later if necessary. Yes, even to the grocery store.

What almost none of these places or people teach you is repercussions for your actions. Not everyone is going to get as lucky as Kyle Rittenhouse. It is more likely you will be Johnny Hurley. There is a good chance that whoever you shoot (and maybe kill) will bring a lawsuit against you that will likely have a negative effect on your life going forward, regardless if you are successful in the lawsuit.

Most people suck ass when under duress. The aggressor is already likely having a mental episode because no sane person is going to attack others unprovoked (for the reasons stated above). As the sane person, you're at a handicap because that person has already entered a stage where repercussions and all the other checks and balances in the human brain are being overridden. You're still doing risk-based calculations on your likelihood you're going to die in any action choice you can pick from, they've already committed to flushing that out of their brain. What's worse, is that they have the element of surprise on their side also, which means you have a while to go before you get to the point where your brain is ready for action.

Most people hit their target 10-15% of the time when under duress and have committed to engaging the opponent. Highly trained people (optimistically speaking on the highly part, LEOs) are usually 25% successful. Speed up the split times and it gets worse for both, but most trained people can rattle off rounds with a 25% success rate with 1/3 second splits. So in the time between when you normally blink a trained person unloads a magazine. The point of this knowledge tidbit is that you don't have time for cover or thinking.

If someone is high ready or low ready with a rifle, before you complete your first step they will have already yeeted at you. If you're lucky, they'll miss on the first shot but since it takes more than a second to get to them they will likely hit you with one of the next 3 shots. The nice thing is that you likely won't die before you get to them, but you're probably on borrowed time.



If you want to know what it's like to be in a situation like this, there is plenty of available training for it. I've been through quite a bit.

However, I recommend paintball. Not airsoft. Airsoft doesn't hurt and you are relying on people to call their shots. There is no fear with airsoft. However, airsoft is great for tactics with similar gear (aka LARPing) and is easier to participate in because it's not a messy hobby. You can do it after work for an hour with your buddies. However, you can do the same with paintball, but it's just dead weight since you're relying on the markers and CO2, reloads aren't the same, etc. But paintball hurts. It's messy. There is no lying about where you're hit. Since it hurts, you get real fear and adrenaline with it. However, you will still take risks with your own life that you normally wouldn't. Getting hit in the neck with a paintball sucks but you're not going to die.

I think if you were to go play paintball as part of your training, you'd decide to focus on the escape and evade part also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Who cares what they like or want... if you take down an active shooter while concealed carrying in a communist store/ work place(school is a little different), they're going to thank you and call you a hero. Just don't let anyone know you're carrying until the day it(doesn't actually happen. this is how worried they have us... taking classes to know how to survive in an active shooter event. Something that will statistically never happen to any one of us) is necessary.
But throwing shit at him will literally just get you shot, that or some other idiot who pops up to throw shit... you're workplace isn't the a- team and will react with no Alice training whatsoever if it really does happen. Just practice your aim from a distance with your edc piece and be confident you can win a gun fight. That or walk out before you die.
Gun free zones are probably the most dangerous places to go to. I know of people that carry everywhere even in GFZ. That shooting in the mall that was a GFZ and the guy carrying did stop the shooter at 40 yards. He was labeled as a hero for stopping the bad guy. Liberals try and tell us that it is rare that a good guy with a gun will stop a bad guy with a gun but it happens more than they wish to admit.
The plan would be to get out as soon as you hear gun fire. If you never have people setting off firecrackers at work and you think that's what you hear, it's not firecrackers, its gun fire. Time to get out, fast.
 

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Project Antitube
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Trying to hit your target with your blood pressure in the 180s, adrenaline making you jittery, and the time-space continuum all messed up due to being hopped up on fear/excitement/endorphins/adrenaline is a wild ride. I do most of my "training" aka shooting these days on a one-way range with both me and my opponent moving. It's either my makeshift moving targets powered by a garage door opener or a varmint. After you do it enough, there is just blood pressure and other physiological things to deal with which is way easier to get through.

One time, not terribly long ago, I had a varmint in the chicken yard. It had spread the fence wires systematically and dug under in a spot overnight and was slaughtering my chickens one by one and drinking their blood as they died. I couldn't get it to leave ( or its buddy I didn't know about until later)... and I didn't want rabies. My wife was home and she is anti-gun so I try not to make it apparent where I have firearms except the safe. I ran my fat ass down the hill, opened up the basement garage door, unlocked the basement interior door, unlocked the safe with the key code, grabbed my trusty 870 and four #4 shells, and ran up the hill loading the gun. By the time I got to the chicken coop my wife had scared them away but they kept trying to come back for some sweeeeet chicken blood. One stuck its head out from behind a tree about 40' away and I blew its head clear off with shot #1. The other one saw that life was sucking and made a run for the coop and I blew its back half clear off blowing bits of flesh everywhere with shot #2... and it didn't know it and was still running in FWD when its lungs fell out.

All of that training made it easier for me to deal with the other problems of the excitement, but it's still nothing like a two-way range.

I do not have a CPL. The main reason is that I never want to be in a situation where I need a CPL. I avoid those situations like the plague. Carrying a firearm would just make the risk-based calculations skew more towards "standing my ground". I want to die of my own stupidity and I very much enjoy my freedom. I do not want to waste the resources and time I have left in this world in the court system.

If the world ends I will be wearing my very expensive spook plates, my old Crye Airframe, and carrying a LR308 rifle with spicy handloads looking as if I am a member of MEAL Team 6 if I have to go somewhere. The reason for that is no CPL needed to open carry and nobody is going to choose to engage someone dressed like that. Until then, I'll always make sure I can make a hasty exit.
 

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Just don't let anyone know you're carrying until the day
I pretty much live my entire life with a don't ask, don't tell policy lol.

I may or may not comply with whatever... But I will definitely not make a huge deal out of it publicly.

I'm still kinda stuck on some instructor telling people to throw staplers at active shooters though lol :LOL: . WTF kind of training is this?
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
I pretty much live my entire life with a don't ask, don't tell policy lol.

I may or may not comply with whatever... But I will definitely not make a huge deal out of it publicly.

I'm still kinda stuck on some instructor telling people to throw staplers at active shooters though lol :LOL: . WTF kind of training is this?
The whole idea of the class was to be informed of what to do and for the most part it was to get out of the building as soon as you hear something like gunfire, screaming and yelling.
If you can't get out, lock or barricade the doors. If as a last resort, you are encountered by a shooter don't just crawl under a desk and cry for your life. He doesn't care and will just kill you where you are crying for mercy.
Do what you can to survive even if that means tossing a chair or stapler or the computer on your desk. If he's distracted, you just might get lucky with whatever you threw at him.
 

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I'll Direc your TV
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It seems like they're trying to teach you the fight or flight instinct... good luck learning that if you don't already have it😔
Exactly.

Seems like people have more of a "cower" instinct than fight or flight....
 
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Skymaster
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I don't plan on ever flying passengers however there was a FedEx pilot jump seating that attempted to hijack a plane years ago. The crew were able to fight him off but he messed them up pretty good. Suspicious package more likely to take me down but there's no way of me mitigating that risk personally. I rely on the company scanning the freight.
 

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I'll Direc your TV
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I don't have a stapler in my truck or trailer. The office tools are for people working in an office with office tools.
Ok, so your 9mm in your truck or trailer is going to help you while your in the building...how? is that what the rock is for, throw it to distract the shooter, then run, get the 9mm, go back into the building and john McClane their ass? You saying that just reminds me of some jackass that claims, "oh i'd love to see someone try, i'm not worried, I got my boom boom gun gun"...blah blah, while drinking a monster and smoking a swisher sweet

I'm intentionally being difficult, because you're giving out nonsense you learned from that ALICE training that is advice that will do nothing but get someone hurt. Honestly, wtf is throwing a rock or a stapler going to do; someone that is rolling on the adrenaline high, firing a weapon at people is not going to be affected by a fawking rock or a stapler being thrown at them at all. You might as well just start yelling "psst psst psst" at them and say "no, no, no , no, we don't do that". That is the kind of advice that companies hire outside people to come into their office to teach 55 year old secretaries about how "everyone can protect themselves", when all it is meant to do is make people feel like they're learning and being "prepaired". All that is teaching them is how to give a shooter a better target of who to shoot first. "here lies Nacny, mom, wife, threw a stapler at the shooter".
 
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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Ok, so your 9mm in your truck or trailer is going to help you while your in the building...how? is that what the rock is for, throw it to distract the shooter, then run, get the 9mm, go back into the building and john McClane their ass? You saying that just reminds me of some jackass that claims, "oh i'd love to see someone try, i'm not worried, I got my boom boom gun gun"...blah blah, while drinking a monster and smoking a swisher sweet

I'm intentionally being difficult, because you're giving out nonsense you learned from that ALICE training that is advice that will do nothing but get someone hurt. Honestly, wtf is throwing a rock or a stapler going to do; someone that is rolling on the adrenaline high, firing a weapon at people is not going to be affected by a fawking rock or a stapler being thrown at them at all. You might as well just start yelling "psst psst psst" at them and say "no, no, no , no, we don't do that". That is the kind of advice that companies hire outside people to come into their office to teach 55 year old secretaries about how "everyone can protect themselves", when all it is meant to do is make people feel like they're learning and being "prepaired". All that is teaching them is how to give a shooter a better target of who to shoot first. "here lies Nacny, mom, wife, threw a stapler at the shooter".
I drink Gatorade not monster and I don't smoke swisher I like backwoods, at least I used to. Anyways back to protecting yourself from a bad guy.
The guy that taught us a few things about active shooter is a friend of mine. He is also a cop and trains other cops and regular people on what to do in case something like this ever happened.
He says that if you are caught in a situation where you didn't or weren't able to get away you need to fight with anything you can.
A guy wanting to kill one person or a bunch or people don't care if you are under our desk or a table hiding and crying about how you have kids and a wife and a life. You will be killed cowering. At least try something, run if you can because the chances of getting hit running away in a zig zag pattern are pretty slim. Like 80% you won't get hit. The chances of getting shot while hiding under a desk or in a room are a lot greater. I'm just saying I'd rather try to do something than nothing.
As far as keeping my weapon in my truck while on the job. It depends on the area or job site. I did have an incident one time and it was a drywaller on the project waving a 6 inch drywall knife around threatening to kill me because
he got wet paint on his hands. He grabbed a wet door that I just finished painting and I told him the doors are wet.
I was lucky that the GC heard this crazy guy yelling and threatening he was going to take me outside and kill me. The GC came over to the other side of the house and pulled him away. My hand was on my weapon but I did not pull my weapon out. He was close enough to where he could have been on me in 2 seconds. I was ready but my heart rate was really elevated. I'm really glad that the situation did not get worse.
 
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