[mtnbiker995]

I think I might keep my new gf around for a while. Not only is the sex great but she buys me Jeep parts! I took her to Drummond Island a couple weeks ago and blew a lockout while I was there and she said she felt bad because I had just finished the axles... So she decided to buy me Warn premium lockouts. Win.



Also side track from my build, this is the new turbo set up my cousin Zak is working on for his 24v.



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[bbaXJ]

I disagree. How will the holes not act as a dampener? No holes will make it like a spring

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And holes will make it act like a reservoir on both sides. I get the whole "breathing through a straw" train of thought, but as Thomas said, there won't be enough volume to help. Why are you so resistant to using oil? Air compresses easily, oil does not. There's a reason every shock and bump on the market uses oil for damping. Hell, even air bag suspensions still use oil shock absorbers.

 

[Plato2k5]

I think I might keep my new gf around for a while. Not only is the sex great ....

That's not what she told me......oke: lol

For bump stops Collin, there is a write up on pirate. You can buy the piston and shaft assembly fom McMaster. I could probably get them from work at Fastenal cheaper then you could make them.

 

[mtnbiker995]

And holes will make it act like a reservoir on both sides. I get the whole "breathing through a straw" train of thought, but as Thomas said, there won't be enough volume to help. Why are you so resistant to using oil? Air compresses easily, oil does not. There's a reason every shock and bump on the market uses oil for damping. Hell, even air bag suspensions still use oil shock absorbers.

That's why there would be a spring inside the bump to return the piston to the bottom of the "reservoir." It's not that I'm opposed to using oil, it's just not what I have planned on using.

That's not what she told me......oke: lol

For bump stops Collin, there is a write up on pirate. You can buy the piston and shaft assembly fom McMaster. I could probably get them from work at Fastenal cheaper then you could make them.

Lol idk about that...I couldn't find an actual write up where someone finally built a pair, only where people were talking about making them. I'm getting almost all the material for free from school and using the machine shop we have here so I'm actually not going to have that much money into these. We'll see what happens though.

 

[Lousypirate]

If you're putting a return spring in it, why don't you just put one on either end and have a progressive rate all mechanical bump?

 

[mtnbiker995]

If you're putting a return spring in it, why don't you just put one on either end and have a progressive rate all mechanical bump?

Because the spring is just to return the bump, not to absorb impact

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[bbaXJ]

Because the spring is just to return the bump, not to absorb impact

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So are you just conveniently ignoring the part about not having enough air volume for that to do any good? We're trying to help you here and you're just ignoring constructive criticism. Go ahead and do it yourself, but if you keep ignoring helpful input you're gonna be wasting lots of time. Your current design is basically a set of mini coil carriers and you're gonna be pretty disappointed with how they work.

 

[Lousypirate]

So are you just conveniently ignoring the part about not having enough air volume for that to do any good? We're trying to help you here and you're just ignoring constructive criticism. Go ahead and do it yourself, but if you keep ignoring helpful input you're gonna be wasting lots of time. Your current design is basically a set of mini coil carriers and you're gonna be pretty disappointed with how they work.

Thanks for wording that better than I could. I was trying to not be a complete asshole about it...

Building these, and then still using your stock bumps is dumb...

 

[Ryanw10]

Thanks for wording that better than I could. I was trying to not be a complete asshole about it...

Building these, and then still using your stock bumps is dumb...

Why is it dumb other than space constraints? Its like using a limit strap, extra safety

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[mtnbiker995]

So are you just conveniently ignoring the part about not having enough air volume for that to do any good? We're trying to help you here and you're just ignoring constructive criticism. Go ahead and do it yourself, but if you keep ignoring helpful input you're gonna be wasting lots of time. Your current design is basically a set of mini coil carriers and you're gonna be pretty disappointed with how they work.

I guess I just don't get how I won't have enough volume, it'll be too similar dimensions of production bumps and they have enough volume

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[mtnbiker995]

Thanks for wording that better than I could. I was trying to not be a complete asshole about it...

Building these, and then still using your stock bumps is dumb...

How is that dumb? My stock bumps are inside my coils, I'm not planning on mounting these in the same spot so why not just leave the other ones too? What if I blow a seal on the air bumps, wouldn't it be nice to still have another bump?

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[Lousypirate]

Why is it dumb other than space constraints? Its like using a limit strap, extra safety

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Maybe I misunderstood him, but I was under the impression that he was using the bump stops as his actual bumps and not getting full bump stroke out of these diy air bumps...

A limit strap limits drop, the way he described his bumps, they do not seem like they are going to limit uptravel...

Maybe I'm just a big incompetent retard that would rather spend my money than waste my time. You only have so much time on this earth, but you can always make more money.

 

[Lousypirate]

I guess I just don't get how I won't have enough volume, it'll be too similar dimensions of production bumps and they have enough volume

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They are running hundreds/thousands of psi of nitrogen. It's how they fit several hundred cubic feet of gases into a several cubic foot tank.

Put it in this perspective. I'll take your breathing through a straw principle. While it is harder to breathe, you can still do it. Now, try to push water through the same straw. Then, try to push honey through the same straw.

To get enough dampening small scale, you need something that doesn't freely flow.

Look up cfm of orifice leaks in an air compressor system, you'll shit your pants what can flow through an 1/8" hole in a minute at 90psi. Then figure out how much volume you'll actually have inside your bump.

 

[mtnbiker995]

They are running hundreds/thousands of psi of nitrogen. It's how they fit several hundred cubic feet of gases into a several cubic foot tank.

Put it in this perspective. I'll take your breathing through a straw principle. While it is harder to breathe, you can still do it. Now, try to push water through the same straw. Then, try to push honey through the same straw.

To get enough dampening small scale, you need something that doesn't freely flow.

Look up cfm of orifice leaks in an air compressor system, you'll shit your pants what can flow through an 1/8" hole in a minute at 90psi. Then figure out how much volume you'll actually have inside your bump.

Like I said I'm only in the planning stage. I'll keep doing research.

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[Ryanw10]

Maybe I misunderstood him, but I was under the impression that he was using the bump stops as his actual bumps and not getting full bump stroke out of these diy air bumps...

A limit strap limits drop, the way he described his bumps, they do not seem like they are going to limit uptravel...

Maybe I'm just a big incompetent retard that would rather spend my money than waste my time. You only have so much time on this earth, but you can always make more money.

Our current bumps are inside the coils and the air bumps will not be mounted there. There is absolutely no reason to get rid of them.
The limit strap was just an anology. The limit strap prevents the shock from over extending just like a hard bump can help prevent an air bump from blowing up
You can always make more money but guess what, that takes time

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[mtnbiker995]

Our current bumps are inside the coils and the air bumps will not be mounted there. There is absolutely no reason to get rid of them.
The limit strap was just an anology. The limit strap prevents the shock from over extending just like a hard bump can help prevent an air bump from blowing up
You can always make more money but guess what, that takes time

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At least someone understands what I'm talking about

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[RDK_YJ88]

I guess I just don't get how I won't have enough volume, it'll be too similar dimensions of production bumps and they have enough volume

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In the production bumps an oil does the dampening. The nitrogen is used to push the piston back out, and more importantly it keeps the oil from foaming under repeated rapid movement. If you use a compressible fluid (air or nitrogen) you will need a lot of volume and travel of the piston to get any dampening.


I'm all for building your own parts, that's why we drive jeeps and not a Prius. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Your on the right track with your idea. Try it with compressed air or nitrogen, if it doesn't work how you planned try adding oil and air.

 

[Lousypirate]

You can always make more money but guess what, that takes time

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What's your time worth to you?

How many hours do you want to spend trying to make something work when you can buy something proven?

If you spend 30 hours researching, designing, fabricating, installing, testing, redesigning, and testing again, etc to get a product that will never function as good or better than something that has thousands of hours of r&d and a lot more money invested, how far are you really ahead of just working somewhere for $15-20/hr and buying it up front?

I could design my own air lockers, but should I?

End rant. You young whipper snappers

 

[Ryanw10]

It's all a learning curve. Were both engineers so anything we learn here helps us in the real world

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[bbaXJ]

I guess I just don't get how I won't have enough volume, it'll be too similar dimensions of production bumps and they have enough volume

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As was said already, all the production bumps use oil for the dampening effect. The nitrogen is pressurizing the oil, pushing the piston and shaft down into the rest position, and helping minimize cavitation during movement. It's not doing a damn thing for the shock absorption. I can understand the orificed piston as a cheaper, simpler variant than the shim stacks. The entire purpose of the piston and shims is to control and slow the flow of fluid through its orifices, not to compress it. That's why you'll need to use the same non-compressing medium to make it work.
Never mind that a gas will flow drastically faster through a small orifice than an oil, what doesn't flow will compress. Why do you think we all have these fancy air compressors powered by puny little electric motors? Surely a closed-loop compressed oil system would provide drastically more RPM, torque, etc depending on the tool hooked to it. But there's no such system because oil is very, very difficult to compress. So much so that hydraulic systems can lift thousands of tons relying solely on the non-compressing oil. They can lift exponentially more than pneumatic systems because oil compresses exponentially less than air. Get it now?

Hell, throw tap water or used motor oil in there for all I care, just don't try and rely on a gas to do the job of a liquid. If you do then it'll be a damn good thing you left those redundant stock bumpstops in place.