8 lug JK - Page 6 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Rig Builds and Pics
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Rig Builds and Pics Introduce your rig or post a buildup here.

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 5th, 2015, 07:31 AM   #101
mtnbiker995
American
 
Join Date: 09-07-14
Location: Dorr
Posts: 1,498
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Default

I think I might keep my new gf around for a while. Not only is the sex great but she buys me Jeep parts! I took her to Drummond Island a couple weeks ago and blew a lockout while I was there and she said she felt bad because I had just finished the axles... So she decided to buy me Warn premium lockouts. Win.



Also side track from my build, this is the new turbo set up my cousin Zak is working on for his 24v.



Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
mtnbiker995 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old November 6th, 2015, 08:30 AM   #102
bbaXJ
Yooper In Training
 
bbaXJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-29-06
Location: Fowlertucky, MI
Posts: 6,836
iTrader: (66)
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to bbaXJ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbiker995 View Post
I disagree. How will the holes not act as a dampener? No holes will make it like a spring

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
And holes will make it act like a reservoir on both sides. I get the whole "breathing through a straw" train of thought, but as Thomas said, there won't be enough volume to help. Why are you so resistant to using oil? Air compresses easily, oil does not. There's a reason every shock and bump on the market uses oil for damping. Hell, even air bag suspensions still use oil shock absorbers.
bbaXJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2015, 09:03 AM   #103
Plato2k5
In Da Faaaaaace!!!
 
Plato2k5's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-25-05
Location: WMU Kzoo Mi / Livonia, MI
Posts: 5,634
iTrader: (17)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Plato2k5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbiker995 View Post
I think I might keep my new gf around for a while. Not only is the sex great ....

That's not what she told me...... lol

For bump stops Collin, there is a write up on pirate. You can buy the piston and shaft assembly fom McMaster. I could probably get them from work at Fastenal cheaper then you could make them.
Plato2k5 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old November 6th, 2015, 02:06 PM   #104
mtnbiker995
American
 
Join Date: 09-07-14
Location: Dorr
Posts: 1,498
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbaXJ View Post
And holes will make it act like a reservoir on both sides. I get the whole "breathing through a straw" train of thought, but as Thomas said, there won't be enough volume to help. Why are you so resistant to using oil? Air compresses easily, oil does not. There's a reason every shock and bump on the market uses oil for damping. Hell, even air bag suspensions still use oil shock absorbers.
That's why there would be a spring inside the bump to return the piston to the bottom of the "reservoir." It's not that I'm opposed to using oil, it's just not what I have planned on using.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Plato2k5 View Post
That's not what she told me...... lol

For bump stops Collin, there is a write up on pirate. You can buy the piston and shaft assembly fom McMaster. I could probably get them from work at Fastenal cheaper then you could make them.
Lol idk about that...I couldn't find an actual write up where someone finally built a pair, only where people were talking about making them. I'm getting almost all the material for free from school and using the machine shop we have here so I'm actually not going to have that much money into these. We'll see what happens though.
mtnbiker995 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2015, 10:17 PM   #105
Lousypirate
Whoop Whoop
 
Lousypirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-11-08
Location: Marne 49435
Posts: 17,221
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Default

If you're putting a return spring in it, why don't you just put one on either end and have a progressive rate all mechanical bump?
__________________



The Kernel (46 CJ2a)

Mary Jane
Lousypirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2015, 11:40 PM   #106
mtnbiker995
American
 
Join Date: 09-07-14
Location: Dorr
Posts: 1,498
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousypirate View Post
If you're putting a return spring in it, why don't you just put one on either end and have a progressive rate all mechanical bump?
Because the spring is just to return the bump, not to absorb impact

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
mtnbiker995 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 09:15 AM   #107
bbaXJ
Yooper In Training
 
bbaXJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-29-06
Location: Fowlertucky, MI
Posts: 6,836
iTrader: (66)
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to bbaXJ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbiker995 View Post
Because the spring is just to return the bump, not to absorb impact

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
So are you just conveniently ignoring the part about not having enough air volume for that to do any good? We're trying to help you here and you're just ignoring constructive criticism. Go ahead and do it yourself, but if you keep ignoring helpful input you're gonna be wasting lots of time. Your current design is basically a set of mini coil carriers and you're gonna be pretty disappointed with how they work.
bbaXJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 09:25 AM   #108
Lousypirate
Whoop Whoop
 
Lousypirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-11-08
Location: Marne 49435
Posts: 17,221
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbaXJ View Post
So are you just conveniently ignoring the part about not having enough air volume for that to do any good? We're trying to help you here and you're just ignoring constructive criticism. Go ahead and do it yourself, but if you keep ignoring helpful input you're gonna be wasting lots of time. Your current design is basically a set of mini coil carriers and you're gonna be pretty disappointed with how they work.
Thanks for wording that better than I could. I was trying to not be a complete asshole about it...

Building these, and then still using your stock bumps is dumb...
__________________



The Kernel (46 CJ2a)

Mary Jane
Lousypirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 09:42 AM   #109
Ryanw10
Senior Member
 
Ryanw10's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-08-12
Location: Holland
Posts: 2,059
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousypirate View Post
Thanks for wording that better than I could. I was trying to not be a complete asshole about it...

Building these, and then still using your stock bumps is dumb...
Why is it dumb other than space constraints? Its like using a limit strap, extra safety

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
Ryanw10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 12:52 PM   #110
mtnbiker995
American
 
Join Date: 09-07-14
Location: Dorr
Posts: 1,498
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbaXJ View Post
So are you just conveniently ignoring the part about not having enough air volume for that to do any good? We're trying to help you here and you're just ignoring constructive criticism. Go ahead and do it yourself, but if you keep ignoring helpful input you're gonna be wasting lots of time. Your current design is basically a set of mini coil carriers and you're gonna be pretty disappointed with how they work.
I guess I just don't get how I won't have enough volume, it'll be too similar dimensions of production bumps and they have enough volume

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
mtnbiker995 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 12:55 PM   #111
mtnbiker995
American
 
Join Date: 09-07-14
Location: Dorr
Posts: 1,498
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousypirate View Post
Thanks for wording that better than I could. I was trying to not be a complete asshole about it...

Building these, and then still using your stock bumps is dumb...
How is that dumb? My stock bumps are inside my coils, I'm not planning on mounting these in the same spot so why not just leave the other ones too? What if I blow a seal on the air bumps, wouldn't it be nice to still have another bump?

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
mtnbiker995 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 01:06 PM   #112
Lousypirate
Whoop Whoop
 
Lousypirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-11-08
Location: Marne 49435
Posts: 17,221
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanw10 View Post
Why is it dumb other than space constraints? Its like using a limit strap, extra safety

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
Maybe I misunderstood him, but I was under the impression that he was using the bump stops as his actual bumps and not getting full bump stroke out of these diy air bumps...

A limit strap limits drop, the way he described his bumps, they do not seem like they are going to limit uptravel...

Maybe I'm just a big incompetent retard that would rather spend my money than waste my time. You only have so much time on this earth, but you can always make more money.
__________________



The Kernel (46 CJ2a)

Mary Jane
Lousypirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 01:11 PM   #113
Lousypirate
Whoop Whoop
 
Lousypirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-11-08
Location: Marne 49435
Posts: 17,221
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbiker995 View Post
I guess I just don't get how I won't have enough volume, it'll be too similar dimensions of production bumps and they have enough volume

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
They are running hundreds/thousands of psi of nitrogen. It's how they fit several hundred cubic feet of gases into a several cubic foot tank.

Put it in this perspective. I'll take your breathing through a straw principle. While it is harder to breathe, you can still do it. Now, try to push water through the same straw. Then, try to push honey through the same straw.

To get enough dampening small scale, you need something that doesn't freely flow.

Look up cfm of orifice leaks in an air compressor system, you'll shit your pants what can flow through an 1/8" hole in a minute at 90psi. Then figure out how much volume you'll actually have inside your bump.
__________________



The Kernel (46 CJ2a)

Mary Jane
Lousypirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 01:52 PM   #114
mtnbiker995
American
 
Join Date: 09-07-14
Location: Dorr
Posts: 1,498
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousypirate View Post
They are running hundreds/thousands of psi of nitrogen. It's how they fit several hundred cubic feet of gases into a several cubic foot tank.

Put it in this perspective. I'll take your breathing through a straw principle. While it is harder to breathe, you can still do it. Now, try to push water through the same straw. Then, try to push honey through the same straw.

To get enough dampening small scale, you need something that doesn't freely flow.

Look up cfm of orifice leaks in an air compressor system, you'll shit your pants what can flow through an 1/8" hole in a minute at 90psi. Then figure out how much volume you'll actually have inside your bump.
Like I said I'm only in the planning stage. I'll keep doing research.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
mtnbiker995 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 02:30 PM   #115
Ryanw10
Senior Member
 
Ryanw10's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-08-12
Location: Holland
Posts: 2,059
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lousypirate View Post
Maybe I misunderstood him, but I was under the impression that he was using the bump stops as his actual bumps and not getting full bump stroke out of these diy air bumps...

A limit strap limits drop, the way he described his bumps, they do not seem like they are going to limit uptravel...

Maybe I'm just a big incompetent retard that would rather spend my money than waste my time. You only have so much time on this earth, but you can always make more money.
Our current bumps are inside the coils and the air bumps will not be mounted there. There is absolutely no reason to get rid of them.
The limit strap was just an anology. The limit strap prevents the shock from over extending just like a hard bump can help prevent an air bump from blowing up
You can always make more money but guess what, that takes time

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
Ryanw10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 04:27 PM   #116
mtnbiker995
American
 
Join Date: 09-07-14
Location: Dorr
Posts: 1,498
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanw10 View Post
Our current bumps are inside the coils and the air bumps will not be mounted there. There is absolutely no reason to get rid of them.
The limit strap was just an anology. The limit strap prevents the shock from over extending just like a hard bump can help prevent an air bump from blowing up
You can always make more money but guess what, that takes time

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
At least someone understands what I'm talking about

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
mtnbiker995 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 04:59 PM   #117
RDK_YJ88
589 Fabrication
 
RDK_YJ88's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-16-06
Location: Fenton, MI
Posts: 3,532
iTrader: (43)
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to RDK_YJ88
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbiker995 View Post
I guess I just don't get how I won't have enough volume, it'll be too similar dimensions of production bumps and they have enough volume

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
In the production bumps an oil does the dampening. The nitrogen is used to push the piston back out, and more importantly it keeps the oil from foaming under repeated rapid movement. If you use a compressible fluid (air or nitrogen) you will need a lot of volume and travel of the piston to get any dampening.


I'm all for building your own parts, that's why we drive jeeps and not a Prius. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Your on the right track with your idea. Try it with compressed air or nitrogen, if it doesn't work how you planned try adding oil and air.
RDK_YJ88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 05:35 PM   #118
Lousypirate
Whoop Whoop
 
Lousypirate's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-11-08
Location: Marne 49435
Posts: 17,221
iTrader: (46)
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanw10 View Post
You can always make more money but guess what, that takes time

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
What's your time worth to you?

How many hours do you want to spend trying to make something work when you can buy something proven?

If you spend 30 hours researching, designing, fabricating, installing, testing, redesigning, and testing again, etc to get a product that will never function as good or better than something that has thousands of hours of r&d and a lot more money invested, how far are you really ahead of just working somewhere for $15-20/hr and buying it up front?

I could design my own air lockers, but should I?

End rant. You young whipper snappers
__________________



The Kernel (46 CJ2a)

Mary Jane
Lousypirate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 07:49 PM   #119
Ryanw10
Senior Member
 
Ryanw10's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-08-12
Location: Holland
Posts: 2,059
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Default

It's all a learning curve. Were both engineers so anything we learn here helps us in the real world

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
Ryanw10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 09:56 PM   #120
bbaXJ
Yooper In Training
 
bbaXJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-29-06
Location: Fowlertucky, MI
Posts: 6,836
iTrader: (66)
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to bbaXJ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbiker995 View Post
I guess I just don't get how I won't have enough volume, it'll be too similar dimensions of production bumps and they have enough volume

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
As was said already, all the production bumps use oil for the dampening effect. The nitrogen is pressurizing the oil, pushing the piston and shaft down into the rest position, and helping minimize cavitation during movement. It's not doing a damn thing for the shock absorption. I can understand the orificed piston as a cheaper, simpler variant than the shim stacks. The entire purpose of the piston and shims is to control and slow the flow of fluid through its orifices, not to compress it. That's why you'll need to use the same non-compressing medium to make it work.
Never mind that a gas will flow drastically faster through a small orifice than an oil, what doesn't flow will compress. Why do you think we all have these fancy air compressors powered by puny little electric motors? Surely a closed-loop compressed oil system would provide drastically more RPM, torque, etc depending on the tool hooked to it. But there's no such system because oil is very, very difficult to compress. So much so that hydraulic systems can lift thousands of tons relying solely on the non-compressing oil. They can lift exponentially more than pneumatic systems because oil compresses exponentially less than air. Get it now?

Hell, throw tap water or used motor oil in there for all I care, just don't try and rely on a gas to do the job of a liquid. If you do then it'll be a damn good thing you left those redundant stock bumpstops in place.
bbaXJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Rig Builds and Pics

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Barnes 4WD Mid Width Jeep JK Bumper Barnes 4wd Vendors 0 September 8th, 2015 01:58 PM
Barnes 4WD JK Crossmembers Barnes 4wd Vendors 1 September 5th, 2015 03:21 PM
14 bolt and dana 60 rear axles -- 6 and 8 lug ftdperformance Parts for sale 1 May 6th, 2015 11:25 AM
Barnes 4WD Pro Series Jeep JK Front Axle Truss Barnes 4wd Vendors 0 April 23rd, 2015 07:29 PM
Barnes 4WD JK Inner C Gussets Barnes 4wd Vendors 0 February 19th, 2015 02:34 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:50 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
 
Page generated in 0.77569 seconds with 87 queries