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Old December 2nd, 2019, 11:18 AM   #41
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Research takes lots of money to do. The ones making the most noise tend to get that money from the government to do the research and we see that usually they come up with bogus claims to make situations look so terrible that they need more money to do more research. I have read about how they have placed bouys in the oceans to read water temps and bouys in the ballast of ships to read water temps. They use the temps in the ships and say the temps are rising from 20 years ago when they pulled the records from bouys in the oceans. Falsifying data to prove their flawed theory. Only to get more money to run with the data to prove their theory but rejecting studies from their peers who make contradictory claims.
They have been doing this since the late 60's and into the 70's when they ramped up their efforts to push the hoax that if we don't do something we are all going to die.
Yep, and if you check you'll find that several of the scientists cited in the article you posted claiming there is no problem were funded by the oil industry.
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Old December 2nd, 2019, 11:24 AM   #42
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Agreed. The problem becomes an issue when a theory creates policy without being confirmed as fact.
Yes, but the problem with that is the only way to really confirm it as fact is to just let it happen, but then it's too late. I see it as preventative maintenance.

If you doctor said that you have a problem that if not corrected might lead to a heart attack, are you going to do nothing until you actually do have a heart attack, just to make sure he was right?
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Old December 2nd, 2019, 12:35 PM   #43
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Yes, but the problem with that is the only way to really confirm it as fact is to just let it happen, but then it's too late. I see it as preventative maintenance.

If you doctor said that you have a problem that if not corrected might lead to a heart attack, are you going to do nothing until you actually do have a heart attack, just to make sure he was right?
Depends on how stupid his preventative maintenance is. If he says I need to stop eating all meat when my Dad is a meat eater who has lived into his 90's, I'm going to tell the doc to pound sand. If he says to cut back on fat, it would make sense.
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Old December 2nd, 2019, 01:04 PM   #44
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Yep, and if you check you'll find that several of the scientists cited in the article you posted claiming there is no problem were funded by the oil industry.
If there was a group of people making claims to remove your job and you knew they were fake you would find evidence to prove them wrong.
Besides you will find many if not all of the scientists that oppose climate change are creation scientists that see things from a creation world view and not an old world view.
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Old December 2nd, 2019, 03:22 PM   #45
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If there was a group of people making claims to remove your job and you knew they were fake you would find evidence to prove them wrong.
Besides you will find many if not all of the scientists that oppose climate change are creation scientists that see things from a creation world view and not an old world view.
2 more reasons to ignore the deniers.
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Old December 2nd, 2019, 03:52 PM   #46
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2 more reasons to ignore the deniers.
the alarmists have been ringing that bell since the 60's and have lived through every disaster they predicted.
We are not covered in ice and snow, we survived acid rain, the ozone hole that was supposed to allow radiation from the sun in to kill us all, global warming has ceased to a cooling period where we are now but they alarmists are telling us that climate change is caused by man and carbon is killing us.
Funny, I hear greenhouse growers using carbon producing machines to increase growth and yield in their crops.
Its a way to tax the people for something they have no control over.
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Old December 2nd, 2019, 08:38 PM   #47
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the alarmists have been ringing that bell since the 60's and have lived through every disaster they predicted.
We are not covered in ice and snow, we survived acid rain, the ozone hole that was supposed to allow radiation from the sun in to kill us all, global warming has ceased to a cooling period where we are now but they alarmists are telling us that climate change is caused by man and carbon is killing us.
Funny, I hear greenhouse growers using carbon producing machines to increase growth and yield in their crops.
Its a way to tax the people for something they have no control over.
Yes, excellent questions. What did ever happen to the hole in the ozone layer and acid rain?

Acid rain has been known about for over a century, and it's long been known to be largely caused by burning of coal and other fossil fuels, which dumps sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide into the atmosphere. Then in the 1970's some scientists got the wild idea that we should do something about it. It took over a decade to enact regulations, but once they did acid rain because less of the problem. Studies show that in some places it has dropped by 65% since 1976. We continue to find ways to reduce out emissions of those chemicals, and because of that acid rain is not as big of a problem anymore.

Then came the hole in the ozone layer...
The scientists told us that the hole in the ozone layer was caused by CFC's, chemicals used in aerosol sprays and refrigerants, among other things. The media stirred people into a panic. People quit using aerosol sprays and demanded action. CFC's were banned and other replacement chemicals we developed to take their place. And you know what happened next? After we stopped dumping CFC's into the atmosphere the ozone layer stopped shrinking and has started to recover, just like those scientists said it would. It's not fully recovered yet, but is expected to in the coming decades.

So the reason you don't hear much about those things anymore is not because they were a hoax, not because they were real, not because it was just to take control of us, it was because we listened to the scientist, we did what they suggested we do, and it helped clean up the problem.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 08:31 AM   #48
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Yes, excellent questions. What did ever happen to the hole in the ozone layer and acid rain?

Acid rain has been known about for over a century, and it's long been known to be largely caused by burning of coal and other fossil fuels, which dumps sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide into the atmosphere. Then in the 1970's some scientists got the wild idea that we should do something about it. It took over a decade to enact regulations, but once they did acid rain because less of the problem. Studies show that in some places it has dropped by 65% since 1976. We continue to find ways to reduce out emissions of those chemicals, and because of that acid rain is not as big of a problem anymore.

Then came the hole in the ozone layer...
The scientists told us that the hole in the ozone layer was caused by CFC's, chemicals used in aerosol sprays and refrigerants, among other things. The media stirred people into a panic. People quit using aerosol sprays and demanded action. CFC's were banned and other replacement chemicals we developed to take their place. And you know what happened next? After we stopped dumping CFC's into the atmosphere the ozone layer stopped shrinking and has started to recover, just like those scientists said it would. It's not fully recovered yet, but is expected to in the coming decades.

So the reason you don't hear much about those things anymore is not because they were a hoax, not because they were real, not because it was just to take control of us, it was because we listened to the scientist, we did what they suggested we do, and it helped clean up the problem.
x2 on this. Excellent points.


The simple thing I can't wrap my head around, is how do you people not believe that we (humans) are polluting the world? Do you not believe it flat out, or do you not believe that it is affecting the world?

Enough with the "climate change is normal", we know. That's not what anyone is talking about. Humans are disrupting the NORMAL change in climate by introducing pollutants and reducing greenage. How many times has there been some disaster that affected the ecosystem negatively, how many times has a man made fire destroyed over 1,000 acres of forest. On the converse side, how many times has there been a breakthrough that's saved 1,000 acres of forest, how many times has a disaster benefited the ecosystem.

The global temperature seems to be something that people take for granted. It's risen 1.2 degrees in the last 150 years, the most in history. Prospective seems to be the issue with why people don't think 1 degree is a big deal. that one degree is the equivalent of being 1 tooth off for timing an engine, or being one bolt short on a bearing cap of an engine. It's not much, but that 1 degree has a lot of effect on the global climate.

What's happened the last 150 years that could possibly have had an effect that accelerated climate change...wonder if there was some sort of industrial revolution, development of nuclear energy, maybe there was the development of fossil fuel burning wheeled thingys....shoot, maybe even companies and corporations started building or making things that has some sort of byproduct, emissions type stuff......it's just a mystery I guess. We'll probably never know.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 11:02 AM   #49
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x2 on this. Excellent points.


The simple thing I can't wrap my head around, is how do you people not believe that we (humans) are polluting the world?Absolutely, I believe we are polluting the world. Do you not believe it flat out, or do you not believe that it is affecting the world?

Enough with the "climate change is normal", we know. That's not what anyone is talking about. Humans are disrupting the NORMAL change in climate by introducing pollutants and reducing greenage. I don't know that pollutants are changing the climate, nor how much greenage changes things.How many times has there been some disaster that affected the ecosystem negatively, how many times has a man made fire destroyed over 1,000 acres of forest. I don't know that we have created any bigger fire damage than lightning.On the converse side, how many times has there been a breakthrough that's saved 1,000 acres of forest, how many times has a disaster benefited the ecosystem. Not sure what you mean here. Disasters change things for certain and a quite often a new form of life pops up. Forest fires are a great example. Some seedlings don't sprout without a fire.

The global temperature seems to be something that people take for granted. It's risen 1.2 degrees in the last 150 years, the most in history. How do we know for certain? Do we really know how quickly the earth changed going back in time? I don't think we know. Prospective seems to be the issue with why people don't think 1 degree is a big deal. that one degree is the equivalent of being 1 tooth off for timing an engine, or being one bolt short on a bearing cap of an engine. It's not much, but that 1 degree has a lot of effect on the global climate. Yes it does. I'm not discounting the change, or saying it is minute. However, I'm not convinced we are impacting it more than mother nature would on its own.

What's happened the last 150 years that could possibly have had an effect that accelerated climate change...wonder if there was some sort of industrial revolution, development of nuclear energy, maybe there was the development of fossil fuel burning wheeled thingys....shoot, maybe even companies and corporations started building or making things that has some sort of byproduct, emissions type stuff......it's just a mystery I guess. We'll probably never know.
I'm not going down the Aber rabbit hole. I think it's possible that burning fossil fuels is changing the earth's temperature. But there are experts out there who point out conflicts in the theory.

Example 1) Lots of blame placed on CO2. However, CO2 comprises less than 1/10 of 1% of our atmosphere. It's basically a trace element. And if if changes slightly, it is still a trace element. Can this really impact our climate? Some say yes, some say no.

Example 2) I recently read an article from a prominent scientist talking about the ratio of air temperature to water temperature and how much of a temperature difference in air it takes to change the temp of water. Without digging up the article and quoting specific numbers, in summary he states that the earth's air temperature would have had to skyrocket way beyond what it is to have changed the water temps as much as they have changed. Therefore, he does not believe that our meager 1.5 degree of air change has been the cause of the oceans warming. The physics say it ain't so. So what has caused it instead? Is it possible that it's simply from underwater volcanic eruptions, etc?

Do I think we need to be thoughtful about our environment? You bet. And as you mentioned, I think pollution is a far greater problem to solve than burning fossil fuels. We have been involved in some new technology in steel processing. It's interesting to discover that in China, almost ALL water has been polluted and not only is it not suitable for potable use, it is not suitable for commercial use. This is scary!
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 01:19 PM   #50
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I'm not going down the Aber rabbit hole. I think it's possible that burning fossil fuels is changing the earth's temperature. But there are experts out there who point out conflicts in the theory.

Example 1) Lots of blame placed on CO2. However, CO2 comprises less than 1/10 of 1% of our atmosphere. It's basically a trace element. And if if changes slightly, it is still a trace element. Can this really impact our climate? Some say yes, some say no.

Example 2) I recently read an article from a prominent scientist talking about the ratio of air temperature to water temperature and how much of a temperature difference in air it takes to change the temp of water. Without digging up the article and quoting specific numbers, in summary he states that the earth's air temperature would have had to skyrocket way beyond what it is to have changed the water temps as much as they have changed. Therefore, he does not believe that our meager 1.5 degree of air change has been the cause of the oceans warming. The physics say it ain't so. So what has caused it instead? Is it possible that it's simply from underwater volcanic eruptions, etc?

Do I think we need to be thoughtful about our environment? You bet. And as you mentioned, I think pollution is a far greater problem to solve than burning fossil fuels. We have been involved in some new technology in steel processing. It's interesting to discover that in China, almost ALL water has been polluted and not only is it not suitable for potable use, it is not suitable for commercial use. This is scary!
My biggest idea is that, mother nature probably does as much damage to the ecosystem as humans do, for example, one volcano eruption puts more CO2 in the atmosphere than all of the automobiles combines. That's nature, that's doing what it's supposed to do, and what it evolved to do.

Humanity is exasperating the problem, not because we're doing anything that drastically different from what nature does, but we make it happen more often and frequently than what nature can adapt to.

I do agree that pollution and byproducts are a more problem than simply burning fossil fuels.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 09:22 PM   #51
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"Mother nature" will be just fine. As temperature rises more plants will grow over more area, helped by the higher CO2 levels. Eventually CO2 levels will fall again.

It's not about "saving the planet", it's about keeping it habitable by humans.
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Old December 3rd, 2019, 11:52 PM   #52
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Accept Climate Change. ADAPT!

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ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
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Old December 4th, 2019, 11:02 AM   #53
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"Mother nature" will be just fine. As temperature rises more plants will grow over more area, helped by the higher CO2 levels. Eventually CO2 levels will fall again.

It's not about "saving the planet", it's about keeping it habitable by humans.
I cant believe it. We agree on something.
With just one burp from a volcano it produces more pollution than everything man produces as far as pollution. What we contribute is minimal but also not good.
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Old December 4th, 2019, 11:11 AM   #54
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I cant believe it. We agree on something.
With just one burp from a volcano it produces more pollution than everything man produces as far as pollution. What we contribute is minimal but also not good.
I researched this one time and found it to not be true.
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Old December 4th, 2019, 11:14 AM   #55
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Accept Climate Change. ADAPT!

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ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
Lenard Nemoy scare tactics. I remember watching this as a kid and it did scare me. Thinking that we will all have to live in extreme cold.
As time went on that passed and things got warmer. Then the next hoax appeared. Global warming and that passed and not to cover all the weather changes or cover all the bases they call it climate change.
Its all a way to tax the people and to collect revenue to study the weather and make predictions that will never come true.
As responsible people we need to care for the place we live.
God created the planet, He flooded it once and there is proof of a world wide flood. He also said he would destroy the planet by fire next. Are we ready to meet our Maker?
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Old December 4th, 2019, 11:18 AM   #56
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I researched this one time and found it to not be true.
The images of an erupting volcano seem to produce soot and ash that can be seem from space and pollution on a large scale is also seen from space. Where does all the pollution go? Absorbed in the atmosphere? As a way of scrubbing and cleaning the air?
We see images from China and their air is really bad. Developing countries seem to have no care of what they pump up and out.
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Old December 4th, 2019, 04:37 PM   #57
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the earth has been warming since the last ice age.
it will keep doing so till the next one.
JMHO

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Old December 4th, 2019, 08:04 PM   #58
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The images of an erupting volcano seem to produce soot and ash that can be seem from space and pollution on a large scale is also seen from space. Where does all the pollution go? Absorbed in the atmosphere? As a way of scrubbing and cleaning the air?
We see images from China and their air is really bad. Developing countries seem to have no care of what they pump up and out.
Yes, volcanoes spew stuff into the air, but human activity does much more.

Yes, things are much worse in some other poorer countries. This is why we need to be careful to not destroy our economy trying to fix the problems. It's our affluence that affords us the ability to worry about the environment.

Yes, developing nations do not seem to care what they pump out, but neither did we while we were developing. For this reason, I think we should cut them some slack, do our part, and help them.
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