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Old August 3rd, 2008, 09:59 PM   #21
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hes too young to trust. the president should be old and at the END of his political career. less reason to abuse the power.
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Old August 3rd, 2008, 10:06 PM   #22
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haha, im pretty sure the majority of those 800,000 leos will quit the day they're told to go house to house collecting guns, or they just wont do it. Itll be really interesting when they tell the military to do it.
I would quit right after I arrested the asshole who gave me the order to do so.
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Old August 3rd, 2008, 10:09 PM   #23
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why do you guys wanna nuke iran so bad? we should just send in our best, quietest killers to kill those in power. have puppet leaders waiting...
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Old August 3rd, 2008, 10:16 PM   #24
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I would quit right after I arrested the asshole who gave me the order to do so.
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Old August 3rd, 2008, 10:18 PM   #25
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I would quit right after I arrested the asshole who gave me the order to do so.
your name is on the list written in green pen.
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Old August 3rd, 2008, 10:35 PM   #26
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why do you guys wanna nuke iran so bad? we should just send in our best, quietest killers to kill those in power. have puppet leaders waiting...
Here's why I want to nuke Iran:
YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

P.S. In 1979-80, I used to beat the shit out of anybody I thought was Iranian. They were all pussies and couldn't fight.
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Old August 3rd, 2008, 10:39 PM   #27
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Here's why I want to nuke Iran
i understand your logic, but nuking is so final. once we use a nuke, that tells the world its ok to use them. the chances of a nuke being used are very slim now. lets keep it that way.
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Old August 3rd, 2008, 10:42 PM   #28
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Can't we gas em out and build another disney land?
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Old August 3rd, 2008, 10:51 PM   #29
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Here's why I want to nuke Iran:
YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

P.S. In 1979-80, I used to beat the shit out of anybody I thought was Iranian. They were all pussies and couldn't fight.
Carter was/is such a pussy.

BTW, I remember everyone wearing buttons with mickey mouse on them that said "Hey Iran" and mickey flipping the bird.
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Old August 3rd, 2008, 11:21 PM   #30
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Remember the big talk about Pelosi's first 100 hours.

Nothing came of it.

Likewise, little will come of an Obama administration.

don't have discipline or unity, unless they're opposing something . When they have to work together, they fall apart squabbling over petty details.

The bad part is that that some foreign power will test him. He's made so much noise that he's not Dubya that somebody (Iran, North Korea, etc...) will challenge him to see how he reacts. And, left without poll data and focus groups to develop his "message", he will eliminate all doubt that he's an empty suit. "Hope" won't cut it.
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Old August 4th, 2008, 09:31 AM   #31
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Things like this will happen, with no one doing a damn thing about it. Maybe even thinking it's a great idea.


MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin on Monday said it was time for Russia to rebuild links with former Cold War ally Cuba, news agencies reported.

The Kremlin is angry at U.S. plans for a missile defence system in Eastern Europe, and last month a news report suggested Russia might use Cuba, a thorn in America's side for half a century, as a refueling stop for nuclear-capable bombers.

The Russian Defence Ministry denied the report and said it had no plans to open any military bases abroad, but a top U.S. general was drawn to say such a move would cross a "red line".

Moscow was the Caribbean island's key oil, arms and grain supplier for 30 years, until subsidies propping up the economy of Fidel Castro's revolutionary government fell to a trickle and then dried up entirely after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

"We need to reestablish positions on Cuba and in other countries," news agency Interfax quoted Putin as saying at the weekly presidium meeting of key government ministers.

Just 144 km (90 miles) from the coast of U.S. state of Florida, Cuba still has no formal diplomatic ties with Washington D.C.

At the height of the Cold War in 1962, a two-week crisis over Soviet missiles on the island nearly led to full-blown war.

Putin's remarks came after Russian Deputy Prime Minister Igor Sechin reported on a recent three-day visit to Cuba, where he discussed a raft of trade and investment issues and met with Raul Castro, Fidel's brother and now the island's leader.

"We agreed on a priority direction for cooperation, this being energy, the mining industry, agriculture, transport, health care and communications," news agency RIA quoted Sechin as saying.
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Old August 4th, 2008, 09:45 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by muddin_wolverine View Post
haha, im pretty sure the majority of those 800,000 leos will quit the day they're told to go house to house collecting guns, or they just wont do it. Itll be really interesting when they tell the military to do it.
They had no problem doing this in New Orleans.
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Old August 4th, 2008, 10:13 AM   #33
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They had no problem doing this in New Orleans.
While it took Federal assistance, true dat.
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Old August 4th, 2008, 11:26 AM   #34
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Where do you folks read that Obama wants to ban guns and take them away and all that? Do any of you actually do any research and check the candidates policy sheets before you go off repeating what you hear on Fox News?

From the Obama campaign and his official policy statement on Supporting the Rights and Traditions of Sportsmen:

Quote:
Respect the Second Amendment: Millions of hunters own and use guns each year. Millions more participate in a variety of shooting sports such as sporting clays, skeet, target and trap shooting that may not necessarily involve hunting. As a former constitutional law professor, Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right, and he greatly respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting. He also believes that the right is subject to reasonable and commonsense regulation.
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Old August 4th, 2008, 11:49 AM   #35
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Where do you folks read that Obama wants to ban guns and take them away and all that? Do any of you actually do any research and check the candidates policy sheets before you go off repeating what you hear on Fox News?

From the Obama campaign and his official policy statement on Supporting the Rights and Traditions of Sportsmen:


He will start by creating more laws for handguns, and move from there.
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Old August 4th, 2008, 11:51 AM   #36
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Where do you folks read that Obama wants to ban guns and take them away and all that? Do any of you actually do any research and check the candidates policy sheets before you go off repeating what you hear on Fox News?

From the Obama campaign and his official policy statement on Supporting the Rights and Traditions of Sportsmen:
Can you read what you quote?

"He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport, and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting."

I guess if you want to purchase a gun for protection you are screwed, unless Obama calls this "target shooting".
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Old August 4th, 2008, 11:52 AM   #37
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Where do you folks read that Obama wants to ban guns and take them away and all that? Do any of you actually do any research and check the candidates policy sheets before you go off repeating what you hear on Fox News?

From the Obama campaign and his official policy statement on Supporting the Rights and Traditions of Sportsmen:
Are you fucking kidding me!!

Do you know anything about his past voting record. Or speaches/opinions he has given?
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Old August 4th, 2008, 12:01 PM   #38
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What I have read about his views on handguns for protection generally fall under states rights. I have seen/heard nothing saying that he would impose a federal ban on handguns.

He has stated in the past that regarding the recent D.C. handgun case that went to the Supreme Court, I took it as he didn't have a problem with the District's regulation because he looked at it as the District's right to enact that regulation.

In the end, it doesn't really matter because the Supreme Court sided with the citizen saying that having a handgun in your home for protection is allowed under the Second Amendment so without a total repeal of that Amendment, I wouldn't expect any vast diversion from that any time soon.
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Old August 4th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by WSU JK View Post
Where do you folks read that Obama wants to ban guns and take them away and all that? Do any of you actually do any research and check the candidates policy sheets before you go off repeating what you hear on Fox News?

From the Obama campaign and his official policy statement on Supporting the Rights and Traditions of Sportsmen:

Don't believe his propaganda. The facts speak for themselves.....


http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Bar...un_Control.htm

Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws

Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?

A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?

A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.

Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008

FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban
Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."
Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."

Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008

Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok

Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?

A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions.

Source: 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview Feb 11, 2008

Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing

Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?

A: I don't think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You've got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you've got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.

Source: 2008 Democratic debate in Las Vegas Jan 15, 2008

2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month
Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in 2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns.
Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007

Concealed carry OK for retired police officers

Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcing and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.
When I queried him about the vote, he said, "I didn't find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms."

It wasn't until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police.

Source: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell, p.250-251 Aug 14, 2007

Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities

Q: How would you address gun violence that continues to be the #1 cause of death among African-American men?

A: You know, when the massacre happened at Virginia Tech, I think all of us were grief stricken and shocked by the carnage. But in this year alone, in Chicago, we've had 34 Chicago public school students gunned down and killed. And for the most part, there has been silence. We know what to do. We've got to enforce the gun laws that are on the books. We've got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren't loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they're not made in our communities. There aren't any gun manufacturers here, right here in the middle of Detroit. But what we also have to do is to make sure that we change our politics so that we care just as much about those 30-some children in Chicago who've been shot as we do the children in Virginia Tech. That's a mindset that we have to have in the White House and we don't have it right now.

Source: 2007 NAACP Presidential Primary Forum Jul 12, 2007

Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality

I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do ew need to punish thatman for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there's a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair.
Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006

Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban

KEYES: [to Obama]: I am a strong believer in the second amendment. The gun control mentality is ruthlessly absurd. It suggests that we should pass a law that prevents law abiding citizens from carrying weapons. You end up with a situation where the crook have all the guns and the law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves. I guess that's good enough for Senator Obama who voted against the bill that would have allowed homeowners to defend themselves if their homes were broken into.

OBAMA: Let's be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.

Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions

Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:
Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
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Old August 4th, 2008, 12:11 PM   #40
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While he voted "No" on prohibiting lawsuits against manufacturers, he also voted "Yes" on a bill that prohibited the confiscation of guns by the federal government especially during emergencies and disasters.
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