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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:13 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
scientific method
n.

The principles and empirical processes of discovery and demonstration considered characteristic of or necessary for scientific investigation, generally involving the observation of phenomena, the formulation of a hypothesis concerning the phenomena, experimentation to demonstrate the truth or falseness of the hypothesis, and a conclusion that validates or modifies the hypothesis.
But because this "scientific method" is carried out by humans it is flawed in that it requires us to use what understanding we have to interprete the results. Just because the results are what was expected based on the hypothesis doesn't necessarily make it true.


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Here are three quotes from my Ayn Rand Lexicon Objectivism from a-z:

Are you in a universe which is ruled by natural laws and, therefore, is stable, firm, absolute - and knowable? Or are you in an incomprehensible chaos, a realm of inexplicable miracles, an unpredictable, unknowable flux, which your mind is impotent to grasp? The nature of your actions - and of your ambition - will be different, according to which set of answers you come to accept.
I believe I'm in a universe in which there is much that is unknown, and in many ways "unknownable". Where was "I" before I was born? where will "I" go after I die. What came before the begining? what comes after the end? Is everything we know of as "life", including this very conversation, merely the bizzarr by-product of a millions of year old runaway chemical reaction or is there something unknown involved?
_____________
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To rest one's case on faith means to concede that reason is on the side of one's enemies- that one has no rational arguments to offer.
Either way it comes down to faith. Science can not "prove" that there is no God.

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The Bible declares that man ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge - he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil - he became a moral being/ He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor - he became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desire - he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which (the preachers) damn him are reason, morality, creativeness joy - all the cardinal values of his existence.
Did you ever watch your cat play and wish your life was that easy? Maybe thats the way it could have been if Adam and Eve hadn't eaten that damn apple.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:20 PM   #122
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Prove to me there is a god. You cant. put the bible down. dont bring up faith. now. prove god? Dont tell me they are fundamental to proving god because they do nothing but discredit him.
Prove that there is no god? you can't do that either.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:24 PM   #123
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Trying to find faith my brother. By questioning it I am forced to think about it. I am the minority on earth. I dont "believe" anything that sounds illogical and is without a good chunk of solid fact within a theory.
I sometimes wonder if those of us with little or no faith were put here to keep the faithful honest.
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Old April 21st, 2006, 08:09 AM   #124
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I believe I'm in a universe in which there is much that is unknown, and in many ways "unknownable". Where was "I" before I was born? where will "I" go after I die. What came before the begining? what comes after the end? Is everything we know of as "life", including this very conversation, merely the bizzarr by-product of a millions of year old runaway chemical reaction or is there something unknown involved?
_____________



Again, I believe you are siding on faith, as opposed to science. Science is looked at as faith by some, but I believe it as fact.

In this world, there is an explanation for everything, An answer for everything, and reasoning behind everything in and around us.

One more quote from my hero (ayn rand)
"The good, say the mystics of spirit, is God, a being whose only definition is that he is beyond man's power to conceive- a definition that invalidates man's consciousness and nullifies his concepts of existence...Man's mind, say the mystics of spirit, must be subordinated to the will of God... Man's standard of value, say the mystics of spirit, is the pleasure of God, whose standards are beyond man's power of comprehension and must be accepted on faith....The purpose of man's life...is to become an abject zombie who serves a purpose he does not know, for reasons he is not to question."

Heres how I will sum it up.. Why should I build my life around something that is a theory, a mystery, and non existant, when I can work, make money, have fun, and live life to my maximum enjoyment. Maximum enjoyment for me does not involve church, donating money to a church, praying, or anything else I deem a waste of time.

On the otherhand, Going to church provides maximum enjoyment for many, and donating to a church makes alot of people happy. So I say, do whatever you can do to keep happy.
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Old April 21st, 2006, 08:28 AM   #125
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Gosh, I really hate doing this, but you all feel that science is the way to go.

Let me ask you a question, but let's REALLY discuss it this time, and not just use it as a "you-don't-know-so-I-must-be-right" things.

Where did the universe come from?
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Old April 21st, 2006, 08:42 AM   #126
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Where did the universe come from?

Are we talking about from an infinite void, or how we know it today?

Nothing could not of existed before, as we are here today.

And we know you can't make something out of nothing.
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Old April 21st, 2006, 08:48 AM   #127
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Where did the universe come from?


A very big Sun went Boom and spread out planets and little suns all over the place.

Or there was a big war between a bunch of gods and each one got its own little piece of it.

Or we are just stupid little creatures and the Ants realy rule the world.

And religon is based on everyones own oppions and we will all find out the judgment day or the day we turn to dust.
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Old April 21st, 2006, 08:48 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
Are we talking about from an infinite void, or how we know it today?

Nothing could not of existed before, as we are here today.

And we know you can't make something out of nothing.
I'm talking about the beginning beginning. Where did all of this mass come from? it's not that difficult. Where did it come from?
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Old April 21st, 2006, 09:08 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by brewmenn
Prove that there is no god? you can't do that either.
If lack of evidence, evidence?

Just because I cant prove it wrong that you are horrible in bed doesnt mean its so or not so. It means I dont have enough information on the matter.
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Old April 21st, 2006, 09:08 AM   #130
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I'm talking about the beginning beginning. Where did all of this mass come from? it's not that difficult. Where did it come from?
Where did god come from?
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Old April 21st, 2006, 09:11 AM   #131
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If lack of evidence, evidence?

Just because I cant prove it wrong that you are horrible in bed doesnt mean its so or not so. It means I dont have enough information on the matter.
What is the evidence for what you believe?
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Old April 21st, 2006, 09:20 AM   #132
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pretty poor "logic" for someone that claimed to be a scientist if you ask me. If you believe that the universe as we know it started with a "big bang" and then sentient beings evolved then it stands to reason that one had to be the first. Why can't it be us? Why wouild anyone assume that other worlds evolved faster than us?
I have never claimed to be a "scientist" - perhaps you missed the /sagan part indicating I was paraphrasing what I believe to be a carl sagan-ific look at things?
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Old April 21st, 2006, 09:46 AM   #133
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I'm talking about the beginning beginning. Where did all of this mass come from? it's not that difficult. Where did it come from?

That is like me asking you when god appeared, or has god been here forever?

I believe the universe has always been here. Where is here? I'm not sure.

Once we get past the question about where the universe came from, I can use mostly facts or educated guesses to answer any questions.
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Old April 21st, 2006, 09:51 AM   #134
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What is the evidence for what you believe?
There isnt enough evidence to even remotely begin to prove anything.
Thus, I dont believe in anything.



chew on that one a little bit.
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Old April 21st, 2006, 10:02 AM   #135
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I believe the universe has always been here.
There are (incredibly) roughly 25 quintillion stars in the universe that are burning TONS AND TONS of hydrogen for fuel to produce massive amounts of light and energy, so are you are saying that the supply of hydrogen in the universe is infinite?
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Old April 21st, 2006, 10:04 AM   #136
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There are (incredibly) roughly 25 quintillion stars in the universe that are burning TONS AND TONS of hydrogen for fuel to produce massive amounts of light and energy, so are you are saying that the supply of hydrogen in the universe is infinite?
prove it.
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Old April 21st, 2006, 10:06 AM   #137
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There isnt enough evidence to even remotely begin to prove anything.
Thus, I dont believe in anything.



chew on that one a little bit.

Taste like snozzberry.:tonka:
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Old April 21st, 2006, 10:07 AM   #138
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prove it.
thsi one time, at band camp, we stayed up late at night, and counted each and every one.
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Old April 21st, 2006, 10:07 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by Deke
There isnt enough evidence to even remotely begin to prove anything.
Thus, I dont believe in anything.



chew on that one a little bit.
From the great Geddy Lee (Neil Pert actually wrote it if you want to get picky):

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

You believe something, you just consider this something to be "nothing".
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Old April 21st, 2006, 10:08 AM   #140
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From the great Geddy Lee (Neil Pert actually wrote it if you want to get picky):

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

You believe something, you just consider this something to be "nothing".
I haven't listened to Rush in a long time. Time to mix up the playlist in winamp I'm thinking.
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