Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!







Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 20th, 2006, 12:36 PM   #61
Miffy
Senior Member
 
Miffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: My home
Posts: 5,826
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to Miffy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrelWJ
I'm kind of interested in the subject of Fate that someone brought up earlier. As my physics classes have taught me... the universe likes to keep its options open. That's why we can't nail down certain aspects of it, because once we figure one thing out, another problem arises. Heck, I know they made a quantum computer recently that yielded better results with it OFF than when it was turned ON. Or the fact that they've figured out changing an atom (I think that's what the experiment was) on one side of the world, changed another on the other side. They just can't predict HOW it's going to change, just that it does. As the way things work, if the universe is as random as we currently know it to be... how can we say that things were fated to happen when even the physical world around us doesn't even have a set path?

Then are we not choosing our own Fate? Our Action are what cause change . and the only thing constent in life is change.
Miffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 12:42 PM   #62
General Lee
Slice of Starsage Anyone?
 
General Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 5,070
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to General Lee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffy
Then are we not choosing our own Fate? Our Action are what cause change . and the only thing constent in life is change.
Our actions? How are you sure that we are not fated to complete those actions?

(Sorry Deke)
Ephesians 2:10
" For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."
General Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 12:45 PM   #63
Miffy
Senior Member
 
Miffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: My home
Posts: 5,826
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to Miffy
Default

[QUOTE=General Lee]Our actions? How are you sure that we are not fated to complete those actions?

Because we are in his image. and can think on our own.
Miffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 12:59 PM   #64
General Lee
Slice of Starsage Anyone?
 
General Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 5,070
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to General Lee
Default

[QUOTE=Miffy]
Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee
Our actions? How are you sure that we are not fated to complete those actions?

Because we are in his image. and can think on our own.
Numbers 16:28
"And Moses said: 'By this you shall know that the LORD has sent me to do all these works, for I have not done them of my own will. '"

John 14:10
" Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works."

I was superman for holloween. My mom made the costume, and I looked just like him, but I couldn't fly. God made us in his Holy Image, but we cannot do the works of God.

Moses and Jesus were the smart ones who knew that their actions were not of their own doing; they were guided by the hand of God.
General Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 01:13 PM   #65
Miffy
Senior Member
 
Miffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: My home
Posts: 5,826
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to Miffy
Default

And God helps those whom help themselves. When I was a child this couple I was babysitting for were putting in a new bay window. It was giving them trouble and they stoped for a day and prayed that it would get fixed. Do you think God did this or do you think that maybe they had done this themselves?
Don't take me wrong I believe in God and Do pray for things that I feel he can help me with . but do you think he has the time or energy to answer every little thing that comes up for everyone?

now can I buy you a
Miffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 01:18 PM   #66
RyeBread
Catch the wave
 
RyeBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Fenton
Posts: 7,945
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffy
but do you think he has the time or energy to answer every little thing that comes up for everyone?

now can I buy you a
this is a cliche'd quote, but be careful for what/how you pray for

sorta like that old teach a man to fish, as opposed to giving him a fish.

teach someone to believe/cope/endure/etc...
RyeBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 01:25 PM   #67
General Lee
Slice of Starsage Anyone?
 
General Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 5,070
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to General Lee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffy
And God helps those whom help themselves. When I was a child this couple I was babysitting for were putting in a new bay window. It was giving them trouble and they stoped for a day and prayed that it would get fixed. Do you think God did this or do you think that maybe they had done this themselves?
Don't take me wrong I believe in God and Do pray for things that I feel he can help me with . but do you think he has the time or energy to answer every little thing that comes up for everyone?

now can I buy you a
God doesn't necessarily help those who help themselves, but he helps those who call on his name.

Did God litterally reach down from heaven and put the window in? Probably not, or we wouldn't be having this debate (actually, several people would claim that it didn't happen, and others would blame the action on aliens, so we would probably still be here, but, either way).

God may have given them the strength to do it, or may have altered some other effect. As the quotes I have sent you have shown God works through people.

As for the time and energy part:

I am usually pretty busy, and I have a ton of things on my plate. I still manage to be doing above Dean's List at school, get promotions and raises at work, keep a band, cook dinner, study for exams, keep up with family events and gatherings, have online conversations like this, have a happy girlfriend, and have parents that love me dearly (I don't have a running Jeep, but I'm getting there...). This is just a short list, but if I (a little 19 year old engineering student) can keep track of this quite large list of responsabilities and activities, then how many things can the Creator of the Universe manage? You're questioning the extent of God's power, and, if you truly believe that God is all powerful (as I do), then the answer is obviously: yes!

I am very glad that you have faith and that you do pray. I pray that your questioning will draw you closer to God as you find answers. Please keep with the faith and realize that every little thing that you come up with is a concern of God's because you are one of his precious children.

Oh, and thanks for the offer. I regret to inform you that I quit drinking...it was becoming a problem. I'll take an orange juice though. That stuff is GOOD!
General Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 01:56 PM   #68
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Deke, two questions:

1. How did you become so bodacious?

2. Wassup with the duck-billed platypus, was God on something?
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 02:03 PM   #69
Deke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: gheyville
Posts: 2,097
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKerwin
Deke, two questions:

1. How did you become so bodacious?

2. Wassup with the duck-billed platypus, was God on something?
dude I cant tell you how glad I am to see you in here.


I'll get to the posts now.
Deke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 02:04 PM   #70
Monkeyevil
I <3 Miatas
 
Monkeyevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 8,983
iTrader: (16)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Monkeyevil
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKerwin
Deke, two questions:

1. How did you become so bodacious?
Quote:
bo·da·cious also bow·da·cious (bō-dā'shəs) pronunciation or bar·da·cious (bär-) Southern & South Midland U.S.
adj.

1. Remarkable; prodigious.
2. Audacious; gutsy.

adv.

1. Completely; extremely.
2. Audaciously; boldly.
Deke I don't understand. Are you looking for Christianity to be validated? Or are you looking to discredit it?
__________________
JcrOffroad
Zoom Zoom!
Monkeyevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 02:04 PM   #71
Deke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: gheyville
Posts: 2,097
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee
"Then the Lord answered Job..." was preceding the whole batch of text.

Who said it?

The Bible is the inspired word of God. Maybe God didn't write it down, but he said it.
I'm inspired by myself to reply to this. So....am I my own god?



















nope, i'm not that egocentric. sorry.
Deke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 02:06 PM   #72
Deke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: gheyville
Posts: 2,097
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrelWJ
I'm kind of interested in the subject of Fate that someone brought up earlier. As my physics classes have taught me... the universe likes to keep its options open. That's why we can't nail down certain aspects of it, because once we figure one thing out, another problem arises. Heck, I know they made a quantum computer recently that yielded better results with it OFF than when it was turned ON. Or the fact that they've figured out changing an atom (I think that's what the experiment was) on one side of the world, changed another on the other side. They just can't predict HOW it's going to change, just that it does. As the way things work, if the universe is as random as we currently know it to be... how can we say that things were fated to happen when even the physical world around us doesn't even have a set path?
By the bibles account god is all knowing and all everything.

each. atom. is controlled and has a path for all eternity.

yup. The human mind has 13 terabytes of data and god is pushing atoms.



Then again... that goes back to the age thing. 2,000 years ago a million was huge.
13 tera is big now.... whats gona be big in 2,000 years?
Deke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 02:07 PM   #73
Deke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: gheyville
Posts: 2,097
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee
Maybe this one is clearer (I'll try to stick to the more direct verses for you):

Romans 7:6
" But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter."

Better? The old laws are moot. We are freed from the old laws, and now we serve in the newness of our spirit in the laws that the risen Lord has set forth.
Somewhere in .... well do recent.


Quote:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,
establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common
defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the
United States of America.
sounds.... oddly similar.

"we're making better and thus... this is the new law of the land"
Deke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 02:09 PM   #74
Deke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: gheyville
Posts: 2,097
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee
Help me out Deke, what flaw am I using? (I can't stand up for myself unless I know what I'm being accused of).

I'm a little confused about the last part, Deke.

I myself can prove nothing to you. I am flesh and blood as you are, and my words are just like anyone elses. You ask me to put down the Bible and prove God to you? I will tell you that I cannot do this of my own power, but that God's word can acomplish what I am not able to do.

You say that the Bible discredits God? Then why do so many people read the Bible and believe in Him?
Faith. You get put in and where facts dont exsist you tie the bonds with faith. Its the very basis of a religion. Its that fuzzy glue that holds all the things together.

God's word? Why must god's word be learned from via humans? Why must the all everything. the man who created my path and everything. why not....

faith... i must have faith to believe. Wellllll A lotta people got faith they are gona win the lottery. blind faith that hey.... technically... this number could come up.
Deke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 02:10 PM   #75
Deke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: gheyville
Posts: 2,097
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee
Our actions? How are you sure that we are not fated to complete those actions?

(Sorry Deke)
Ephesians 2:10
" For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."
"for you are still quoting mans word and I shall do the same"


"I will have my wifes jeep done by easter ~ BILL"

DAMN.
Deke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 02:12 PM   #76
General Lee
Slice of Starsage Anyone?
 
General Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 5,070
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to General Lee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deke
I'm inspired by myself to reply to this. So....am I my own god?

nope, i'm not that egocentric. sorry.
These men were inspired by God.

You were inspired by Deke.

That is the word of God.

This is the word of Deke.

That was the word of Jim.
General Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 02:14 PM   #77
General Lee
Slice of Starsage Anyone?
 
General Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-09-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 5,070
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to General Lee
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deke
By the bibles account god is all knowing and all everything.

each. atom. is controlled and has a path for all eternity.

yup. The human mind has 13 terabytes of data and god is pushing atoms.



Then again... that goes back to the age thing. 2,000 years ago a million was huge.
13 tera is big now.... whats gona be big in 2,000 years?
What are you trying to say here? Are you putting a limit on God's power? Are you saying his power is outdated?

My chem lab teacher is doing huge experiments that I couldn't even hope to attempt, but he still helps me "push atoms" in labs. Are you saying that God is limited to pushing atoms, but can't keep up with everything else?
General Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 02:17 PM   #78
Deke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: gheyville
Posts: 2,097
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee
God doesn't necessarily help those who help themselves, but he helps those who call on his name.
So he programed people to go against his word? And thus... god would no be perfect?

Or is this the devils influence? in which case.. if god was see all know all and programed it all. wouldnt that be.... dumb?

Quote:
Did God litterally reach down from heaven and put the window in?
If he did it all, then yes. He put the path for someone to put the window in. He made the material to make the window. etc. etc. etc. Its a TOTAL thing. You cant jsut have weee lil parts that ya like.

Quote:
Probably not, or we wouldn't be having this debate (actually, several people would claim that it didn't happen, and others would blame the action on aliens, so we would probably still be here, but, either way).
And this little piggy went to the market
and this lil piggy ran down to the river
and this old piggy got in the grand(edit H3) and got stuck

Isnt god .... by the very definition...an alien. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ition&ct=title

Quote:
God may have given them the strength to do it, or may have altered some other effect. As the quotes I have sent you have shown God works through people.
so he isnt really showing us his love then? I mean.... why have a kid then forget to love it till its dead? again, I could be missing the bigger picture on that one, but god never addressed it to me. For the fact of the matter... never directly addressed anything....

Quote:
As for the time and energy part:

I am usually pretty busy, and I have a ton of things on my plate. I still manage to be doing above Dean's List at school, get promotions and raises at work, keep a band, cook dinner, study for exams, keep up with family events and gatherings, have online conversations like this, have a happy girlfriend, and have parents that love me dearly (I don't have a running Jeep, but I'm getting there...). This is just a short list, but if I (a little 19 year old engineering student) can keep track of this quite large list of responsabilities and activities, then how many things can the Creator of the Universe manage? You're questioning the extent of God's power, and, if you truly believe that God is all powerful (as I do), then the answer is obviously: yes!
You shot yourself in the foot on that one. College is great for teaching you time management skills. Good luck with the engineering; its a toughie. Do you believe that you directly controll how your daily/weekly/monthly/yearly outcome will be.... or has god already programed that to happen. and is controlling you to do your home work or not. To drink or not?

I entertained the idea that god.... would be like I want ___ to happen. and from there it was just happening. Different ways to skin a cat.

Quote:
I am very glad that you have faith and that you do pray. I pray that your questioning will draw you closer to God as you find answers. Please keep with the faith and realize that every little thing that you come up with is a concern of God's because you are one of his precious children.

Oh, and thanks for the offer. I regret to inform you that I quit drinking...it was becoming a problem. I'll take an orange juice though. That stuff is GOOD!
:tonka:
Deke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 02:18 PM   #79
Deke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: gheyville
Posts: 2,097
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee
What are you trying to say here? Are you putting a limit on God's power? Are you saying his power is outdated?

My chem lab teacher is doing huge experiments that I couldn't even hope to attempt, but he still helps me "push atoms" in labs. Are you saying that God is limited to pushing atoms, but can't keep up with everything else?
No. I'm saying by gods all everything power he has literally done and caused EVERYTHING.


ALL of it.




ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of it.



total in nature. get it?
Deke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 20th, 2006, 02:19 PM   #80
Deke
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: gheyville
Posts: 2,097
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee
These men were inspired by God.

You were inspired by Deke.

That is the word of God.

This is the word of Deke.

That was the word of Jim.
Well how do you know that "god" really isnt those guy's favorite hooker?

Or a dog?

Or god really translated into the word of the shit we smoke after a few brews?

GOD = Good old dope? who knows. I dont. Gimmie some facts.

I can name a MILLLION ways it couldnt be and not have to prove a single one. What you need to do is take it and prove it once. just once totally prove it.
Deke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:37 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Copyright ©2005 - 2012 Cracker Enterprises - Powered by Linux
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=
Page generated in 0.28811 seconds with 50 queries