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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:18 AM   #21
RyeBread
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deke
Heres an idea I've had bouncing around in my head. What are the chances that the "creators" of the bible tripped real hard one night on jima-jabba sparks and their visions of talking to god was nothing more then a hard ripping trip?


On the flip side - bad trips result in hr giger style visions. Intresting how mind alerting substances produce effects with religous meanings. To much material to cover right now.
one will never definitively "know" the state of the early authors of the bible, the quran, or most other religious tomes.

as you have stated previously, at this stage in your life, you struggle with the idea of accepting things on faith. to a certain extent a lot of people do.

even those of us who do, will find from time to time temptations, and/or other tests of that faith - some such tests we fail. during such a failure however, one can derive learning experiences as well.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:19 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95geo
you cant be serious....
I'm sorry, how does religon explain dinosaurs again?
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:20 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95geo
you cant be serious....
the /religion reference implies that he was making a statement attributed to one of the "religious loonies" the / is an ending tag in html, xml, and some other coding/scripting languages, and denotes the end of something.

in this case, the end of that "quote" from the loonie - not Deke's statement per se'.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:21 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread
one will never definitively "know" the state of the early authors of the bible, the quran, or most other religious tomes.

as you have stated previously, at this stage in your life, you struggle with the idea of accepting things on faith. to a certain extent a lot of people do.

even those of us who do, will find from time to time temptations, and/or other tests of that faith - some such tests we fail. during such a failure however, one can derive learning experiences as well.
Whats to say god had an off day and... we were all an accident? Thus he just left us and is like a washed up white trash baby daddy?

Awww but the bible is all warm and fuzzy and always has the right answers and always makes ya feel better.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:25 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deke
Whats to say god had an off day and... we were all an accident? Thus he just left us and is like a washed up white trash baby daddy?

Awww but the bible is all warm and fuzzy and always has the right answers and always makes ya feel better.
we aren't reading the same passages then. there is plenty of very much the opposite of warm and fuzzy in the bible.

instead of complaining about "Warm and fuzzy" - most people complain that it's full of judgement, and thus is then mis-used by a hypocritical series of sects in organized religion. *cough* I'm thinking of some ordained priests that should be in prison as but an example *cough*
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:26 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread
the perception of early man, and in fact the writers of the bible, and even the gospels is not that of what we have today.

Arguabley, they wrote those passages from their perspectives, or "first hand accounts" of the perspectives that witnessed the events, and conveyed them as they understood

put yourself in the shoes of even someone 4, or 500 years ago. the entire concept of as an example "millions of years" just wasn't fathomable.

so, back to the original question. coming from their perspective, what does "when the world was created" mean? To them, more than likely it means the very earliest form of concious thought perhaps, and/or "memorable history".

the very concept of something coming before that is so unfathomable, that even if God "told them" the details, the millions of years, etc. how on earth would ancient man be able to write it?

One could make the analogy, based on the perspective of early man, and what we "scientifically 'know' today" that if somehow someone 2-4,000 years ago wrote down what we "know" that it would be so absurdly out of context, that it would be viewed with the same derision as most people view Scientology today.

adding to this, isn't it amazing how the order of creation matches what scientist say, as you said to a human 4000 years ago, they wouldn't understand the length of time this all occured over, but translate this into something they undserstand, like a week...

Last edited by swampjeep; April 20th, 2006 at 09:29 AM.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:27 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread
we aren't reading the same passages then. there is plenty of very much the opposite of warm and fuzzy in the bible.

instead of complaining about "Warm and fuzzy" - most people complain that it's full of judgement, and thus is then mis-used by a hypocritical series of sects in organized religion. *cough* I'm thinking of some ordained priests that should be in prison as but an example *cough*
Heh. The overall message of
"jesus loves you"
"god loves you"

etc


Sending son to die for his creation? What kinda Fed up sense is that? ok I made a jeep. Its a badddddd jeep. Lemm go off my firest born so it can be happy when it dies? GOD makes the damn rules. logic. NOT. found.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:31 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread
the /religion reference implies that he was making a statement attributed to one of the "religious loonies"
that makes sence now.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:31 AM   #29
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Error 402

religion not found.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:34 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampjeep
adding to this, isn't it amazing how the order of creation matches what scientist say, as you said to a human 4000 years ago, they wouldn't understand the length of time this all occured over, but translate this into something they undserstand, like a week...
When faced with the facts that the earth is much much older then suspected religion responded to such earthly discovers. Stating that what was told as a week long story is measure in 7 days. From there no specific length of time was created for the day. Thus a day could be a very long time. mmhmm. right.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:34 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deke
Heh. The overall message of
"jesus loves you"
"god loves you"

etc

Sending son to die for his creation? What kinda Fed up sense is that? ok I made a jeep. Its a badddddd jeep. Lemm go off my firest born so it can be happy when it dies? GOD makes the damn rules. logic. NOT. found.
this will no doubt make you roll your eyes, but whom's logic?

this is a cliche' used by some religious scholars, but many "learned people" find it insulting to suggest to them that they might be as intellectually limited, or logic-limited as a 3 year old child in comparison of some other entity, and that this limitation renders them inable to comprehend, or take the perspective of this "great entity".

funny, these same people quite often have no problem conceptually with a race of alien beings that is "millions of years more advanced" than we are, but make it a diety, and it's religious lunacy.

one can find a commonality, or analogy between the "advanced alien life forces" with the diety of most religions if one looks.

for argument's sake, maybe the "omnicient, and all powerful" statements attributed to the dieties are simply labels for abilities, and knowledge that is/was so far superior to those that authored the early religious tomes?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:36 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by RyeBread
this will no doubt make you roll your eyes, but whom's logic?

this is a cliche' used by some religious scholars, but many "learned people" find it insulting to suggest to them that they might be as intellectually limited, or logic-limited as a 3 year old child in comparison of some other entity, and that this limitation renders them inable to comprehend, or take the perspective of this "great entity".

funny, these same people quite often have no problem conceptually with a race of alien beings that is "millions of years more advanced" than we are, but make it a diety, and it's religious lunacy.

one can find a commonality, or analogy between the "advanced alien life forces" with the diety of most religions if one looks.

for argument's sake, maybe the "omnicient, and all powerful" statements attributed to the dieties are simply labels for abilities, and knowledge that is/was so far superior to those that authored the early religious tomes?

I'm just playing devil's advocate here

Hey its all good. Makes it easyier then trying to play the DA with yourself.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:37 AM   #33
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so aliens dropped us off?















ALL HAIL XENU. where my couch to jump on. I need me some placenta
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:38 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deke
When faced with the facts that the earth is much much older then suspected religion responded to such earthly discovers. Stating that what was told as a week long story is measure in 7 days. From there no specific length of time was created for the day. Thus a day could be a very long time. mmhmm. right.
so throw out time length, how did the people have any clue to the order of creation? martians told them maybe?

edit: after typing this I see in the above post a refference to aliens HAHAHA
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:38 AM   #35
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Hey its all good. Makes it easyier then trying to play the DA with yourself.
I do that sometimes during the edge of sleep, during a particularily hard workout, or a lengthy drive.

unfortunately, I am far from a disciplined analytical thinker, prefeing to explore, and "try things on" instead of taking the more logical, systematic approach.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:41 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Deke
so aliens dropped us off?
you tell me.

"Surely we are not alone in this universe, and thus surely we are not the first sentient beings, and thus since we are not the first, there must be some other life force that is millions, and millions, and millions of years more advanced than us..." /sagan, scientificapproach

one could argue, that we're all loonies, we just take "leaps of faith" towards different hypothesis/proofs/stories
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:42 AM   #37
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As Humans we seem to need leaders. I can see the points of most that do not believe. Yet there are so many things in life that can not be answered. The human brain they say is only useing a small percent to carry on with every day life as most humans do. Question's we all seem to ask of how and why thing happen. Are they just fate? Do we control what happens with out knowing it ? Are some people lucky or are they just smarter in useing others. Or is there a higher being that is guiding what happens here ? And what about Nostradamus?? what about his wrighting? Should we not all be thinking that he is some kind of God also? His wrighting were back befor any type of air planes, etc. yet he seems to see things that have happend . yet others will read the same thing and say just a lucky guess and point out how many things did not happend in his wrighting?

Or is it just as humans most need to Believe in something?

There that should keep you busy for a while!
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:45 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by RyeBread
you tell me.

"Surely we are not alone in this universe, and thus surely we are not the first sentient beings, and thus since we are not the first, there must be some other life force that is millions, and millions, and millions of years more advanced than us..." /sagan, scientificapproach

one could argue, that we're all loonies, we just take "leaps of faith" towards different hypothesis/proofs/stories
The burden of proof doesnt lie on my shoulders. I'm a questioner, not a claim staker.
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:47 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Deke
The burden of proof doesnt lie on my shoulders. I'm a questioner, not a claim staker.
as I said, we're all loonies, we just choose different "leaps of faith".
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Old April 20th, 2006, 09:50 AM   #40
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I haven't really been paying attention lately but did the GP get fired?

Obviously you have a craving for Deke.. even if it involves beating the exact same dead horse over and over again...


Why don't you find something interesting to talk about for once instead of starting the same threads over and over again...
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