So whos voting for him? - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 9th, 2008, 07:08 PM   #1
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,539
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default So whos voting for him?

YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old July 9th, 2008, 07:12 PM   #2
Monkeyevil
I <3 Miatas
 
Monkeyevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 8,987
iTrader: (16)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Monkeyevil
Default

I agree that being bilingual is an asset. I do not believe that it should be forced on our children.

English should be our official language. I would like to push 2 for spanish.
__________________
JcrOffroad
Zoom Zoom!
Monkeyevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 07:13 PM   #3
steveo
In the band!
 
Join Date: 03-30-07
Location: montana/wyoming
Posts: 20,293
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I wanna kick him in his pubic bone.
steveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 07:32 PM   #4
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 21,358
iTrader: (21)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Default

Yeah, let's make sure every fucking highway sign is written in English, Spanish Chinese, German, Italian, Japanese blah blah blah.

Learn the fucking language or leave. I actually have heritage to base my opinion on. My grandmother was a French war bride from WWI. She hated anyone who spoke anything but English. She would actually walk up to them in a store & chew them out.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 07:36 PM   #5
DuffMan
Your Message Here
 
DuffMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: The Ile of Grosse
Posts: 5,837
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I think a second language should be taught in early elementary schools and all children should learn at least two languages fluently.

That said, we also need a law making English the national language, and then we need to stop doing official government business in languages other than English.

No Spanish (or Farsi, Arabic, Korean, etc...) IRS forms, social security paperwork, food stamp applications,e tc...
__________________
This is the Pub. Leave common sense at the door.
DuffMan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 07:42 PM   #6
FireMedicDave
My Reality Check Bounced
 
FireMedicDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-19-06
Location: Oxford Twp., Michigan
Posts: 887
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to FireMedicDave
Default

I am!!!
FireMedicDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 08:28 PM   #7
zjkid
Senior Member
 
zjkid's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-18-07
Location: EL
Posts: 3,931
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
I think a second language should be taught in early elementary schools and all children should learn at least two languages fluently.

That said, we also need a law making English the national language, and then we need to stop doing official government business in languages other than English.

No Spanish (or Farsi, Arabic, Korean, etc...) IRS forms, social security paperwork, food stamp applications,e tc...
x2/2
zjkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 08:29 PM   #8
Rockstar
sɐƃǝʌ sɐן
 
Rockstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-25-07
Location: Taylor,Mi
Posts: 8,504
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

im not sure is he white or not?
Rockstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 08:35 PM   #9
ricmitch
Senior Member
 
ricmitch's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-03-06
Location: Howell Mi.
Posts: 194
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

nothing wrong with knowing how to speak more than one language... as for street signs, the stuff that pisses me off is when I drive down the freeway and see a mile marker every 2 tenths of a mile... thats a lot of signs , then I wonder how much time was spent on making them and installing them ... blah blah blah... and michigan is in the shitter.... the schools dont have enough money.... rant over....
ricmitch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 08:39 PM   #10
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 21,358
iTrader: (21)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffMan View Post
I think a second language should be taught in early elementary schools and all children should learn at least two languages fluently.

That said, we also need a law making English the national language, and then we need to stop doing official government business in languages other than English.

No Spanish (or Farsi, Arabic, Korean, etc...) IRS forms, social security paperwork, food stamp applications,e tc...
Right, but which second language? People complain that people speak English all over the world. Well, guess what, whether you like it or not, English is the language of international business. We are the biggest industrial and economic nation and it only makes common sense for the rest of the world to use it.

My issue is that we started out as an English speaking country and we can't cater to every single language as it comes to America.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 08:50 PM   #11
steveo
In the band!
 
Join Date: 03-30-07
Location: montana/wyoming
Posts: 20,293
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Right, but which second language? People complain that people speak English all over the world. Well, guess what, whether you like it or not, English is the language of international business. We are the biggest industrial and economic nation and it only makes common sense for the rest of the world to use it.

My issue is that we started out as an English speaking country and we can't cater to every single language as it comes to America.
that used to be the American way. now we cater to anyone who might be offended if we don't kiss their ass. remember when we used to drop atomic bombs on our enemies and didn't apologize for it?? good times.
steveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 09:08 PM   #12
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,483
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Not that i was planning on voting for him but I agree with most of what he said in that clip.

I wish I had learned another language in school. I didn't.

I also don't see what good could come from not allowing government workers to use whatever language gets the job done in government business. I'd much rather the person in front of me in line at the SOS speak Spanish and get their business done quickly than have to take twice as long because of their poor English.

And whiterhino's grandmother aside, I think that's more the exception than the rule. From stories I've heard the reality is that many immigrants of 100 years ago learned only minimal English, just enough to get by.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2008, 09:42 PM   #13
scottie
American Leyland??
 
scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sweet home Georgia on my mind
Posts: 8,489
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to scottie
Default

I know i feel kind of stupid talking to some europeans, their english is better than mine. And it's their third language. My German is Crapy, I know no Spanish, no French, No Italian, No Arabic.

Its really not that uncommon to run into immigrants that speak 4 languages.

btw, i don't know who i'm voting for
scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2008, 05:58 AM   #14
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 21,358
iTrader: (21)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
And whiterhino's grandmother aside, I think that's more the exception than the rule. From stories I've heard the reality is that many immigrants of 100 years ago learned only minimal English, just enough to get by.
She was so PROUD to be an american it was amazing. She always flew the american flag and was the first person to tell you how lucky you were to live in a land of opportunity. She represented what made this country great.

Now we worry about what everyone else around the world thinks and all it is getting us is more disrespect and a declining economy. IMO it's time to back up a bit and say if you don't like it, leave.

I'm not embarrassd a bit when I travel overseas & can't speak their language. Our company is doing business on every continent (except the poles) and how in the world can I be expected to be able to communicate in all of those languages? Shit, there's more than a dozen just in Europe. There's 2 in South Africa alone. Why do we have to keep apologizing to the rest of the world when we have brought them more technology than any other country?
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2008, 11:28 AM   #15
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,115
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Not that i was planning on voting for him but I agree with most of what he said in that clip.

I wish I had learned another language in school. I didn't.

I also don't see what good could come from not allowing government workers to use whatever language gets the job done in government business. I'd much rather the person in front of me in line at the SOS speak Spanish and get their business done quickly than have to take twice as long because of their poor English.

And whiterhino's grandmother aside, I think that's more the exception than the rule. From stories I've heard the reality is that many immigrants of 100 years ago learned only minimal English, just enough to get by.
I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you on anything....

100 years ago immigrants came here and assimilated into the American culture, they wanted to be part of it. Today that is not the case with a large portion of the immigrants. They want you to accommodate their culture and don't want to be assimilated into the existing American culture. Language is a great example of this. Multiculturalism will destroy a country where it is allowed to flourish.

If they want to come to America, then come legally, call yourself an American, embrace the culture, and speak english.

If you moved to France would you expect everyone there to speak english for you?
3-foot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2008, 12:06 PM   #16
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,689
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyevil View Post
I agree that being bilingual is an asset. I do not believe that it should be forced on our children.

English should be our official language. I would like to push 2 for spanish.
Exactly.

Just watch kids cartoons now, there is always a spanish speaking kid, it is being forced pretty hard on kids. The agenda seems to make everyone love Spanish, and to make everyone care about baby animals.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2008, 11:20 PM   #17
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,483
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
I think this is the first time I've disagreed with you on anything....

100 years ago immigrants came here and assimilated into the American culture, they wanted to be part of it. Today that is not the case with a large portion of the immigrants. They want you to accommodate their culture and don't want to be assimilated into the existing American culture. Language is a great example of this. Multiculturalism will destroy a country where it is allowed to flourish.

If they want to come to America, then come legally, call yourself an American, embrace the culture, and speak english.

If you moved to France would you expect everyone there to speak english for you?
100 years ago many immigrants came here and moved in ethnic neighborhoods. If you had gone into many of the stores, homes and churches in those ethnic neighborhood you would have heard many of the people there speaking their native language, not English. Eventually they did assimilate, but sometimes not much until the second generation.

American culture IS multiculturalism. Virtually everything in "American culture" came from some other culture, be it food, religion, music, even our form of government has it's roots in ancient cultures from other lands.

People seem to have forgotten that in a true "melting pot" that with every addition of a new element the resulting mixture is changed, and the more of one element gets added, the more the resulting mixture will look like that element. If we truly want America to be the great melting pot we need to understand and accept that.

If I moved to another country I would not expect the people there to change anything to accommodate me. I would, however, hope that they would be understanding that I came from a place with different culture and language and show some compassion and understanding that I will not assimilate overnight and may need some assistance in learning and understanding their culture and language. I would hope that I wouldn't be shunned and be blamed for the ills of society.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2008, 06:54 AM   #18
cornfed
I have an avatar. Yippee.
 
cornfed's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-04-05
Location: Happy Funtown U.S.A.
Posts: 4,115
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
Just watch kids cartoons now, there is always a spanish speaking kid, it is being forced pretty hard on kids. The agenda seems to make everyone love Spanish, and to make everyone care about baby animals.
I don't interpret that as forcing a Latin American (not European Spanish) agenda or culture. I view it as more of a marketing opportunity for a programs to be available to a wider audience.

In this example, language is a two-way street. The English-speaking kids are being introduced to Spanish in small doses. However, any Spanish-speaking kid (or kid from Spanish-speaking household) is watching a program predominantly spoken in English with minimal Spanish. It's the Latino kid being lured to English assimilation through characters he can relate to. As the largest minority (*ugh*) in the country, expect to see more token Latino kid alongside with token black kid.

Also, it's not like this is new. We're just more sensitive to it because of illegal immigration and 50M programs on cable TV. Remember Luis and Maria from Sesame Street?

YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.
cornfed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2008, 07:55 AM   #19
Rockstar
sɐƃǝʌ sɐן
 
Rockstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-25-07
Location: Taylor,Mi
Posts: 8,504
iTrader: (11)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockstar View Post
im not sure is he white or not?
it funny how this was Jacksons over the weekend
Rockstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 11th, 2008, 11:45 AM   #20
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,115
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
100 years ago many immigrants came here and moved in ethnic neighborhoods. If you had gone into many of the stores, homes and churches in those ethnic neighborhood you would have heard many of the people there speaking their native language, not English. Eventually they did assimilate, but sometimes not much until the second generation.

American culture IS multiculturalism. Virtually everything in "American culture" came from some other culture, be it food, religion, music, even our form of government has it's roots in ancient cultures from other lands.

People seem to have forgotten that in a true "melting pot" that with every addition of a new element the resulting mixture is changed, and the more of one element gets added, the more the resulting mixture will look like that element. If we truly want America to be the great melting pot we need to understand and accept that.

If I moved to another country I would not expect the people there to change anything to accommodate me. I would, however, hope that they would be understanding that I came from a place with different culture and language and show some compassion and understanding that I will not assimilate overnight and may need some assistance in learning and understanding their culture and language. I would hope that I wouldn't be shunned and be blamed for the ills of society.
America has a very distinct culture of its own.

I don't want anyone shunned either if they came here legally. I don't think people are blaming legal immigrants for anything, it's those who ignore our laws and come here illegally that are being blamed, and there are valid reasons for that.

I don't see a need/want to learn English or understand our culture, just the opposite. Some of that is our fault for allowing it to be so easy by having #2 for Spanish, etc., its political correctness and its wrong. At the same time they want us to understand their culture and language. Obama said it himself, WE should learn to speak Spanish, not THEY should learn English. Obama is wrong; the burden falls on the immigrant. (pander ... pander ...pander....)

Obama want's to turn the melting pot into a salad bowl.

It's part of the deal of coming to America. It's supposed to benefit the country not the immigrant. The deal is that you can come here to live, be free, pursue happiness. In return, you have to obey the laws, jump in the melting pot, and become a productive American citizen. American's speak English and wave old glory among other things.

I work in a multicultural environment. I don't shun the new guys from France, who can't speak English right away, but eventually they have to learn, and they do learn, because they appreciate the culture here and want to be part of it. They understand the opportunity in from of them. They never expect me to know French, the burden is on them, not me, because American's speak English and we are in America.
3-foot is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:18 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.46835 seconds with 80 queries