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Old June 25th, 2008, 01:56 PM   #41
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Old June 25th, 2008, 01:57 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
I figured they would have put them in by now, are they still not there? If so, that is a huge inconsistancy.
Last I looked the figure was at roughly 22% of buses on the road being equipped that carry school children. Now, of the ones with belts the number enforcing the use of the seatbelts is less than 3%.

I agree with Ryebread in as far as there's only so much you can do to reduce the statistics. My other argument still remains though. We have the ability and some vehicles already have them standard to include booster seats or other devices to make the seat belts fit the smaller children. Why don't we put more effort into making that a nationwide standard first before making a "monetary gain" type law that this is.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 01:57 PM   #43
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I figured they would have put them in by now, are they still not there? If so, that is a huge inconsistancy.
no, they are in the majority still belt-less. how about public transit as well (e.g. city buses)
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Old June 25th, 2008, 02:00 PM   #44
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Why don't we put more effort into making that a nationwide standard first before making a "monetary gain" type law that this is.
this is another major issue that I had forgotten to bring up during my diatribe.

in my humble opinion, even though this country is technically a republic/union of states, the federal level is best served establishing the consistent motor vehicle safety standards, and in theory should serve as a standard for legislation regarding the operation of same.

(the previous misapplication of the 55 mph speed limit for so many decades however forces me to admit that the Feds are equally inept at creating reasonable standards)
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Old June 25th, 2008, 02:01 PM   #45
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He does have a good point. Why don't school buses have seat belts yet???
it would cost too much, you know the teachers need to have their pensions funded
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Old June 25th, 2008, 02:01 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Lothos View Post
Last I looked the figure was at roughly 22% of buses on the road being equipped that carry school children. Now, of the ones with belts the number enforcing the use of the seatbelts is less than 3%.

I agree with Ryebread in as far as there's only so much you can do to reduce the statistics. My other argument still remains though. We have the ability and some vehicles already have them standard to include booster seats or other devices to make the seat belts fit the smaller children. Why don't we put more effort into making that a nationwide standard first before making a "monetary gain" type law that this is.
I guess I see what you and others have said on this issue now. The most effective solution is not yet employed, and may not be because of a lesser one that is already "doing something" about the problem.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 02:07 PM   #47
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The height of the child in regards to the law is also debatable IMO as well. The measurement should be a set distance from should to opposite hip/lapbelt meeting point. One thing you can readily see when visiting an elementary school is seeing the wide variety of long legged kids and long torso'd kids. There are some I've seen that are below the 4'9 mark but tall enough in torso that a seat belt fits properly and vice versa.

On a separate note, shoulder belts in and of themselves are being re-examined for the protective ability versus potential for injury even for adults. I've seen all sorts of ideas, but my fav has to be the maxi'pad with wings idea
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Old June 25th, 2008, 02:11 PM   #48
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Do they make "extra wide" boosters for fat kids?
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Old June 25th, 2008, 03:04 PM   #49
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...........this state, and this country has an exponentially more complicated attempt at legislating common sense, and/or dumbing down safety to the lowest common denominator and it needs to fucking stop.
This has just become my signature.
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I'm aware of the majority. Keeping that thought in mind, how many children are there? How many are severely injured or killed in a car accident?

Statistically speaking, the total rate of motor vehicle deaths per annum has remained largely unchanged for 3 decades last I looked into it. (statisticians love to play with numbers, and the safety freaks will point out that deaths per mile driven have plummeted - while I'm sure that's comforting to some, there are still roughly the same number of caskets filled due to motor vehicle deaths in this country every year)

While each and every one of those is in and of itself tragic, especially for those close to the child, that fact is that no matter how much legislation we put out there, how many safety advances we put forth people in general will get injured, including children - and in fact EVERYONE DIES, it's only a matter of time...

That may seem like a cold heartless view point. Before anyone casts judgment at me regarding it, I watched my 9 month old nephew die, as well as the neighbor's 2 year old first born/only son die. I also have two children of my own.

I guess my point in sounding off on the issue by playing devil's advocate, is that about a month ago, a friend of a friend buried their 6 year old daughter. She died playing on a swingset when she was twirling around in the swing, instead of actually swinging, and hung herself... I assure you there are thousands of 6 year olds in this country that practice unsafe swinging - should we legislate that too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread
this is another major issue that I had forgotten to bring up during my diatribe.

in my humble opinion, even though this country is technically a republic/union of states, the federal level is best served establishing the consistent motor vehicle safety standards, and in theory should serve as a standard for legislation regarding the operation of same.

(the previous misapplication of the 55 mph speed limit for so many decades however forces me to admit that the Feds are equally inept at creating reasonable standards)
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Old June 25th, 2008, 03:07 PM   #50
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Do they make "extra wide" boosters for fat kids?
they don't need boosters they have built in air bags.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 03:38 PM   #51
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Or is that against the prophecy...




Let's wait and see how Brad feels about it when they gov't makes his wife sit in one. :tonka:
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Old June 25th, 2008, 03:44 PM   #52
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Old June 25th, 2008, 04:08 PM   #53
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so this means my 16 yr old niece will need one seeing how shes like 56 inches? thats BS
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Old June 25th, 2008, 05:45 PM   #54
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I am going to go out on a limb here and say that if you can't afford a $50 booster seat ($200), then you probably shouldn't be having kids.
You don't have to get a $50 one. They have some at Meijer this week for under $17. It's just the one that the kids sit on to put them at the right height and you buckle them up with the normal seat belt.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 06:59 PM   #55
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I don't remember voting for this..
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Old June 25th, 2008, 08:03 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos View Post
so, rather than use all this legislative power to make auto companies make a minor adjustment to the seat belts to fit kids and adults, it's better to make a law requiring people to spend on average $50-$200 for a booster seat for EACH child and ticket them if they didn't spend the money they didn't have in the first place. Not to mention child care facilities nor aid to put seatbelts on all buses which has yet to be accomplished. Yeah, good law.
Fuck yeah it is!

Make the auto companies pay for something not needed. I'm overjoyed parents pick up the tab and not the general population of auto buyers.

Something very similar went into effect in 1998 in automobiles - oil companies and gas station owners had better lobbyists that the automobile corps and Onboard Refuelling Vapor Recovery systems (ORVR) were phased in on passenger cars. The cars are now responsible for catching gasoline vapors when you pump gas, not the gas station (remember the "bellows" type fuel delivery nozzles?).

That initially added about $250 to the price of a new car in 1998. :stan3:

You need to fund the booster seat for Lothos Jr., not me and other auto customers.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 08:06 PM   #57
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so this means my 16 yr old niece will need one seeing how shes like 56 inches? thats BS
Learn to read. Well, maybe you did and you understand BigCuntry Math. 7 is less than 16.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 08:06 PM   #58
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onboard vapor recovery was a lost battle going in since the majority of fuel vapor lost was not during refueling.

and i'm not talking about auto co's funding booster seats. I'm talking an extra slider to adjust shoulder seat belts for smaller people in general.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 08:10 PM   #59
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onboard vapor recovery was a lost battle going in since the majority of fuel vapor lost was not during refueling.

and i'm not talking about auto co's funding booster seats. I'm talking an extra slider to adjust shoulder seat belts for smaller people in general.
Your "slider" would be a replacement for booster seats, so it would be funding another safety item to take care of stupid people.

Air bags are another great example - they are "supplementary" restraints so idiots that don't wear belts can survive better (side airbags not included) and mandated by the government to protect the stupid and irresponsible.
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Old June 25th, 2008, 08:19 PM   #60
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I'm not disputing the effectiveness of seat belts, child seats, or booster/safety seats.

I do resent government intrusion telling me I have to wear a seatbelt or be subject to penalty.

I do resent some politician deciding what's best for my child. Like it or not, it's my decision how to raise my child, and unless I'm obviously abusing them, government needs to stay out of it.

Because it's not such a leap to go from child seats to other 'protective measures' like what I can or can't feed them, teach them, or do with them.

I'm sure some zealots can make damn convincing arguments that I should have to feed my kids a vegan diet, teach them that white males have created all the evil in the world, not allow them to ride an ATV, ice skate, ride a bicycle, shoot a gun, use a bow, swim in a lake, row a shell without a lifejacket, ride in a small plane, travel to Mexico, waterski, tube, or participate in an organized sport where someone loses.

My kids have done all those things. They also were strapped into car seats when they were small because I thought it was best for their safety - not because some politician said so.
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