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Old June 21st, 2008, 09:48 AM   #41
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Jeems,
The Aveo is made is South Korea by GM-DAT ( Daewoo ) which GM owns. GM needed a sub-compact, entry-level vehicle to fill a niche they didn't have domestically-made product in.

It was much cheaper (and quicker) to certify the Aveo than to design, test and retool a plant to produce something here. Again, the profits stay and support GM. It may be support for the "corporation", and not for the "worker", however, GM supports a lot more people in Michigan than Toyota does by producing a truck down in Texas.
your point? its not an american car, and its not really helping anyone but GM's ceo profits. i never get a check in the mail from chrysler gm or ford, i undestand they supply jobs for people which is great, but so does mcdonalds. the michigan economy sucks because michigan is the auto industry, which can't compete with cheaper better cars for around the globe so what do the american car companies do? close american plants and built them overseas. why? to compete or really built a cheaper vehicle and charge the same price. then the unions, not even gona get into that but high 20 dollar an hour wages for simple work isn't really right, considering someone making parts for a non auto industry would be makeing 10-15 for a similar job.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 09:53 AM   #42
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your point? its not an american car, and its not really helping anyone but GM's ceo profits. i never get a check in the mail from chrysler gm or ford, i undestand they supply jobs for people which is great, but so does mcdonalds. the michigan economy sucks because michigan is the auto industry, which can't compete with cheaper better cars for around the globe so what do the american car companies do? close american plants and built them overseas. why? to compete or really built a cheaper vehicle and charge the same price. then the unions, not even gona get into that but high 20 dollar an hour wages for simple work isn't really right, considering someone making parts for a non auto industry would be makeing 10-15 for a similar job.
Your point with any of that?
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Old June 21st, 2008, 09:59 AM   #43
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Your point with any of that?
uaw workers are lazy, overpaid and under worked.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:03 AM   #44
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uaw workers are lazy, overpaid and under worked.
I get that, but that still doesn't make me want to fukc our country.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:06 AM   #45
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I get that, but that still doesn't make me want to fukc our country.
ok, so buying good from overseas is fucking our country??
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:09 AM   #46
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your point? its not an american car, and its not really helping anyone but GM's ceo profits. i never get a check in the mail from chrysler gm or ford, i undestand they supply jobs for people which is great, but so does mcdonalds. the michigan economy sucks because michigan is the auto industry, which can't compete with cheaper better cars for around the globe so what do the american car companies do? close american plants and built them overseas. why? to compete or really built a cheaper vehicle and charge the same price. then the unions, not even gona get into that but high 20 dollar an hour wages for simple work isn't really right, considering someone making parts for a non auto industry would be makeing 10-15 for a similar job.

Jared,
Think for just a minute. GM brings the Aveo over from Korea to sell and it helps the bottom line of the company. This helps sell stock, generates revenue that allows the company to invest in further research (such as plug-in hybrids, HCCI, etc...) If you can't understand how the corporation's profit helps Michigan, I am at a loss at how to explain it further to you.

McDonald's' does indeed provide Michigan jobs, but they are minimum wage-based and not intended to support a family. McDonald's' does not fund over a million retirees pensions, nor does it have a large employee base of people earning $15+ an hour. Your comparison really shows your ignorance.

What you cannot seem to come to grips with / understand is that the WORLD is a global economy - GM has to play by a new set of rules, along with every other manufacturer out there. And, blaming our auto manufacturer's current state of affairs by falling back on their product of the 70's,80's and even 90's is becoming a crutch of anyone that lacks the mental facilities to step back and take in the over picture of how business has changed.

What is so hard to understand about our auto manufacturers playing by the same rules everybody else does? As you sound like you would have it, everything would be made in America, right up until the point the auto industry drives itself out of business because nobody can afford to buy their product.

Stop living in the past, Dude.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:11 AM   #47
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Jared,
Think for just a minute. GM brings the Aveo over from Korea to sell and it helps the bottom line of the company. This helps sell stock, generates revenue that allows the company to invest in further research (such as plug-in hybrids, HCCI, etc...) If you can't understand how the corporation's profit helps Michigan, I am at a loss at how to explain it further to you.

McDonald's' does indeed provide Michigan jobs, but they are minimum wage-based and not intended to support a family. McDonald's' does not fund over a million retirees pensions, nor does it have a large employee base of people earning $15+ an hour. Your comparison really shows your ignorance.

What you cannot seem to come to grips with / understand is that the WORLD is a global economy - GM has to play by a new set of rules, along with every other manufacturer out there. And, blaming our auto manufacturer's current state of affairs by falling back on their product of the 70's,80's and even 90's is becoming a crutch of anyone that lacks the mental facilities to step back and take in the over picture of how business has changed.

What is so hard to understand about our auto manufacturers playing by the same rules everybody else does? As you sound like you would have it, everything would be made in America, right up until the point the auto industry drives itself out of business because nobody can afford to buy their product.

Stop living in the past, Dude.
well said scooter.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:13 AM   #48
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uaw workers are lazy, overpaid and under worked.
It is getting increasingly better with each contract negotiation. The UAW has even realized that the auto manufacturers cannot afford to pay the old union scales. Since the UAW is out for the UAW, they have allowed bargaining that would have been unheard of 10 years ago so they can stay afloat.

No auto companies, No UAW.

Union wages are becoming much more realistic every day and the older guys are being bought off early and given retirement so they can continue close to their standard of living. New workers are hired under a lower pay scale but still have the "benefit" of union protection.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:14 AM   #49
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ok, so buying good from overseas is fucking our country??
No, but it isn't helping support our economy.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:24 AM   #50
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No, but it isn't helping support our economy.
so its my duty to spend more money than i need to on a US made product in order to help our economy.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:26 AM   #51
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so its my duty to spend more money than i need to on a US made product in order to help our economy.
If you are going to bitch and cry about the economy, then yes, that is something you can do to help.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:27 AM   #52
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so its my duty to spend more money than i need to on a US made product in order to help our economy.
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If you are going to bitch and cry about the economy, then yes, that is something you can do to help.
x2 We need to support and reward inefficiency.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:27 AM   #53
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If you are going to bitch and cry about the economy, then yes, that is something you can do to help.
when have I bitched and cried about the economy? I am not hurting one bit.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:30 AM   #54
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when have I bitched and cried about the economy? I am not hurting one bit.
I never said you did.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:37 AM   #55
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I never said you did.
so what the hell are we arguing about??? Btw, i try to buy American made products as much as possible, but I look at quality first and foremost.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:40 AM   #56
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so what the hell are we arguing about??? Btw, i try to buy American made products as much as possible, but I look at quality first and foremost.
That's what I am trying to figure out.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:42 AM   #57
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That's what I am trying to figure out.
UAW employee's getting 30 dollars an hour for jobs a stoned monkey can do is fucking our country more than toyota ever could.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:48 AM   #58
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UAW employee's getting 30 dollars an hour for jobs a stoned monkey can do is fucking our country more than toyota ever could.
That's for a whole other thread. Could easily be a 10 pager.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 11:20 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Jared,
Think for just a minute. GM brings the Aveo over from Korea to sell and it helps the bottom line of the company. This helps sell stock, generates revenue that allows the company to invest in further research (such as plug-in hybrids, HCCI, etc...) If you can't understand how the corporation's profit helps Michigan, I am at a loss at how to explain it further to you.

McDonald's' does indeed provide Michigan jobs, but they are minimum wage-based and not intended to support a family. McDonald's' does not fund over a million retirees pensions, nor does it have a large employee base of people earning $15+ an hour. Your comparison really shows your ignorance.

What you cannot seem to come to grips with / understand is that the WORLD is a global economy - GM has to play by a new set of rules, along with every other manufacturer out there. And, blaming our auto manufacturer's current state of affairs by falling back on their product of the 70's,80's and even 90's is becoming a crutch of anyone that lacks the mental facilities to step back and take in the over picture of how business has changed.

What is so hard to understand about our auto manufacturers playing by the same rules everybody else does? As you sound like you would have it, everything would be made in America, right up until the point the auto industry drives itself out of business because nobody can afford to buy their product.

Stop living in the past, Dude.
Yes, when domestic car companies were putting out crappy vehicles, foreign companies were able to come in and provide cheap and reliable vehicles. This forced domestic companies to make quality cars. Jared saying that foreign cars are better now is ignorant.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 11:32 AM   #60
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Ah, I see... I work in IT and those jobs all went offshore a few years ago.
horse shit.

There will ALWAYS be IT work here. The cost of offshoring is increasing as their QOL increases. Not all businesses are large enough to offshore at all.

All the offshored work I've ever seen has been the easy, repeatable tasks. I dare you to show me someplace that's offshored all of their infrastructure architecture and engineering services.

I speak from personal experience, I've worked for 2 quite large outsourcing companies, who also offshore. They've offshored after hours work, call center work, and level 2 technicians. No engineering, level 3 admins, etc...

Anyone who says "all the jobs went offshore" is too lazy to learn past an MCSE or A+ cert, and making excuses. Luckily for the companies here, this is assisting them in weeding out some of the people who were only in IT for the money during the bubble. What should be left are the dedicated, highly skilled workers who continue their learning to keep their skills up to snuff and remain competitive.

plus, whatever General Lee said.
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