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Old June 20th, 2008, 12:10 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ovrlnd View Post
toyota oh noz huge news.

despite the fact uaw workers are sleeping on the job
high school flunkouts making $35/hr.
the fact that you pay $40,000 for a shitty vehicle made by lazy fucks and only get a 3 year 36,000 mile warranty. funny thing is about the big three and uaw is they will stand behind their product quality, but only for 3/36. don't throw that lifetime chrysler bs in there either. no chrysler will last that long so it is pointless
you are one misinformed gentleman.

Ford's warranty is 3/36 bumper to bumper with a 5yr / 60K powertrain warranty
Toyota's warranty is only 3/36 as well, with a 6 yr 60K mile powertrain warranty

The UAW in the past 2-3 years has changed. The workforce is younger and smarter, and they realize they are disposable. The skilled trades I see are some of the brightest people I know.
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Old June 20th, 2008, 12:21 PM   #22
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you are one misinformed gentleman.

Ford's warranty is 3/36 bumper to bumper with a 5yr / 60K powertrain warranty
Toyota's warranty is only 3/36 as well, with a 6 yr 60K mile powertrain warranty

The UAW in the past 2-3 years has changed. The workforce is younger and smarter, and they realize they are disposable. The skilled trades I see are some of the brightest people I know.
don't get all riled. the whole point people entertain buying from toyota, kia, hyundai, whomever is to get away from the image of the union and paying the high price for that labor.

I drive a chevy, a jeep, and a jeep powered by a chevy.

I personally am tired of all of my uaw friends telling me how they are getting screwed. how? they always fail to answer. the uaw isn't changing because they "want" to. they have to. If the big three stand behind their stuff why do I have a problem every time I get something warrantied at the dealer? the dealer isn't paying for it? the dealer should be happy to warranty items. why did they not want to fix my steering shaft when it broke at 32,000 miles? why did I have to threaten legal action before it was fixed?
why is it always a fight? why do people have to pay tax on a vehicle every time it is sold?
when I bought the 46 cj2a in ohio and came back here to get a title in my name, why did they make me pay 6% michigan sales tax?
I didn't buy it in michigan I bought it in ohio?

Like the gold of the samuari we may never find the answers
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Old June 20th, 2008, 12:45 PM   #23
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This brings up something that has always bothered me. In our country, businesses have to go by certain laws regarding labor.
It goes way beyond our country, the ethical responsibilities of companies are all laid out in the United Nations Global Compact.

http://www.unblobalcompact.org/index.html

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Minimum wage is such a big deal here (way too high IMO). But for some reason it doesn't seem to be inhumane or anything to send work overseas or to Mexico where they are making cents per day to make things that will come back into this country.
“Farm workers at U.S. companies in Mexico make two or three times Mexico's minimum wage of $4.80 a day. But they still earn far less than the average $9.60 an hour that field workers in the United States made in January 2008, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture”

Bernsteinwax, Jessica. Some US farms outsourced to Mexico. Associated Press. Retrieved June 12, 2008, from http://beta.ph.news.yahoo.com/ap/200...g-1be00ca.html

Put the costs in perspective. What we would consider a shitty wage, is good money to some people over there.

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If we are going to hold our businesses to such a high standard here in this country to protect "human rights", then how is it okay for our businesses to do what is not allowed here to a person in another country?
Again, with regard to perspective, if violations to the Global Compact are not made, life is good.

Do you have a "Human Right" to a certain wage?
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Old June 20th, 2008, 04:24 PM   #24
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All of these differing opinions made possible by the courageous efforts of generations of politician [whores] selling out the nation to the highest bidder.
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Old June 20th, 2008, 04:26 PM   #25
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All of these differing opinions made possible by the courageous efforts of generations of politician [whores] selling out the nation to the highest bidder.
Freedom of speech?

Jefferson [that dirty whore] should undoubtedly have included the 'necessity of groupthink' clause.
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Old June 20th, 2008, 04:34 PM   #26
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Freedom of speech?

Jefferson [that dirty whore] should undoubtedly have included the 'necessity of groupthink' clause.
You must be a politician. Sorry if I offended you.
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Old June 20th, 2008, 10:58 PM   #27
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You must be a politician. Sorry if I offended you.
I'm actually an electrical engineer, who faces the risk of being offshored.
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Old June 20th, 2008, 11:58 PM   #28
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I'm actually an electrical engineer, who faces the risk of being offshored.
Ah, I see... I work in IT and those jobs all went offshore a few years ago. I really have no idea what your risk might be like.

Veering back on topic though... my original remark merely was a poke that it doesn't matter what joe america buys these days. The political career criminals in Washington are slowly undoing the future of the country. Most of the time for their own gains.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 12:19 AM   #29
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Ah, I see... I work in IT and those jobs all went offshore a few years ago. I really have no idea what your risk might be like.

Veering back on topic though... my original remark merely was a poke that it doesn't matter what joe america buys these days. The political career criminals in Washington are slowly undoing the future of the country. Most of the time for their own gains.
In 2002, the U.S. exported $14.8 billion worth of IT type services, while we only imported (or offshored) $3.9 billion from other countries (Griswold).

Griswold, Daniel T. and Dale D. Buss. (2004) Outsourcing Benefits Michigan Economy and Taxpayers.

Do you have more current stats? Mine are old.

It does matter what Joe Consumer buys, because if Joe Consumer doesn't buy something, it doesn't sell, and, therefore, it doesn't make profits.

Much legislation is actually going into the "preserving of jobs".

In North Carolina, a proposal costing $1.2 million dollars was announced that would return 30 call center jobs to the state (with an extra cost of $40,000 per job repatriated) (Breed).

Breed, Allen G. (2004). Tax dollars change outsourcing debate: Governments must weigh boosting jobs in U.S. against extra cost. Associated Press, The Charlotte Observer.

So, to keep jobs in the U.S., governments are spending additional money and forcing companies to hire these workers at higher wages...which means jobs for 30, but higher product cost (or less products manufactured) for the rest of society. Is that more along the lines of what you're looking for?
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Old June 21st, 2008, 12:36 AM   #30
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Those figures all sound pretty positive. Should you have anything to worry about when your field goes too?
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Old June 21st, 2008, 12:55 AM   #31
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Those figures all sound pretty positive. Should you have anything to worry about when your field goes too?
Meh, I'll find something else to keep me busy.

There are negatives and there are positives, we just have to view both sides.

Jobs will be lost, and others will be created. We also have an expanding customer base (I think GM would be dying if it didn't have the rest of the world to rely on). We just have to try to remain objective.

It blows like hell to get laid off, but we're not just losing every job we have.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 06:38 AM   #32
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Anyone who wont buy anything other then an "American" car and shops at walmart is a hypocrite.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 06:48 AM   #33
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I can understand the anti global sentiment. the trick here is to know just what your buying and from where. there are still plenty of products made here in the USA. just do your selves a favor and look before you purchase. I know not every part in my Hummer was made on shore, but I'll be damned if I'll drive something that came here completely assemebled from off shore.

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/index.php
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Old June 21st, 2008, 08:24 AM   #34
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Anyone who wont buy anything other then an "American" car and shops at walmart is a hypocrite.
When does Sam's club enter the fold? Anyhoo, I'm a strong believer that if you live in Michigan and are concerned with our local economy, you should buy from an American manufacturer.

I also know that that isn't always an option for people, especially now that fuel prices are becoming (relatively) so high. With Michigan's economy not doing the greatest, almost 9% unemployment, it is difficult to fault someone buying a $10k new Kia, shopping at walmart, etc.

We're in a big mess in Michigan.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 08:28 AM   #35
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I can understand the anti global sentiment. the trick here is to know just what your buying and from where. there are still plenty of products made here in the USA. just do your selves a favor and look before you purchase. I know not every part in my Hummer was made on shore, but I'll be damned if I'll drive something that came here completely assemebled from off shore.

http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/index.php
Yetti, we own an excellent example of a "global" car - my wife's Saab 9-2x. It is basically a Subaru Impreza with a facelift. Produced by Subaru (when GM owned a part of their parent company, Fuji Heavy Industries) in Japan, "purchased" by Saab (Sweeden,entirely owned by GM) and only sold in the states as an entry level vehicle.

Profit: GM.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 08:35 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by ovrlnd View Post
toyota oh noz huge news.

despite the fact uaw workers are sleeping on the job
high school flunkouts making $35/hr.
the fact that you pay $40,000 for a shitty vehicle made by lazy fucks and only get a 3 year 36,000 mile warranty. funny thing is about the big three and uaw is they will stand behind their product quality, but only for 3/36. don't throw that lifetime chrysler bs in there either. no chrysler will last that long so it is pointless

This was so true 10 or 15 years ago. The auto manufacturers have wised up and started hiring people for much less (around 14-15 bucks/hr). I feel this is a very fair wage for people with a limited skill set.

I feel today's domestic cars are built much better now than they were in the 70s and 80s when the unions were very powerful. I also feel that alot of our manufacturing jobs moved overseas because of the astronomical wages that were being paid to unqualified people for so many years.

Just my personal opinion.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 08:36 AM   #37
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Anyone who wont buy anything other then an "American" car and shops at walmart is a hypocrite.
Toyota Tundra 70% American-made content assembled in Cali.
Chevy Aveo, 6 (or 7)% American-made content assembled in South Korea.

So I guess your war is with the GDP and the fact that the "profits are going overseas", but what about the profits of the 64ish% of American companies who's parts are not getting used in the production of the Chevy? Also, are we fighting for the workers or the corporations? If you'd buy the Chevy, you're fighting for the corporation, if you buy the Toyota, you're fighing for the working class.

I don't shop at walmart/sam's club, though (But it's more for the fact that I like Target better, and I have yet to delve further into the truth behind some claims made against them.)
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Old June 21st, 2008, 08:41 AM   #38
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Toyota Tundra 70% American-made content assembled in Cali.
Chevy Aveo, 6 (or 7)% American-made content assembled in South Korea.

So I guess your war is with the GDP and the fact that the "profits are going overseas", but what about the profits of the 64ish% of American companies who's parts are not getting used in the production of the Chevy? Also, are we fighting for the workers or the corporations? If you'd buy the Chevy, you're fighting for the corporation, if you buy the Toyota, you're fighing for the working class.

I don't shop at walmart/sam's club, though (But it's more for the fact that I like Target better, and I have yet to delve further into the truth behind some claims made against them.)
That may just be two examples, the Aveo being clearly a Daewoo makes it a horrible example and with North America being the only real full sized truck market in the world, it isn't the best example either. If you look at it and compare total jobs effected, a (real) Chevy will be 10x that of a Toyota.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 08:47 AM   #39
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Even if a person wanted to buy 100% American made products for their needs I don't really think it would be possible. It seems like just about everything is manufactured overseas, even the stuff that looks like it was made here.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 08:47 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
Toyota Tundra 70% American-made content assembled in Cali.
Chevy Aveo, 6 (or 7)% American-made content assembled in South Korea.

So I guess your war is with the GDP and the fact that the "profits are going overseas", but what about the profits of the 64ish% of American companies who's parts are not getting used in the production of the Chevy? Also, are we fighting for the workers or the corporations? If you'd buy the Chevy, you're fighting for the corporation, if you buy the Toyota, you're fighing for the working class.

I don't shop at walmart/sam's club, though (But it's more for the fact that I like Target better, and I have yet to delve further into the truth behind some claims made against them.)
Jeems,
The Aveo is made is South Korea by GM-DAT ( Daewoo ) which GM owns. GM needed a sub-compact, entry-level vehicle to fill a niche they didn't have domestically-made product in.

It was much cheaper (and quicker) to certify the Aveo than to design, test and retool a plant to produce something here. Again, the profits stay and support GM. It may be support for the "corporation", and not for the "worker", however, GM supports a lot more people in Michigan than Toyota does by producing a truck down in Texas.
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