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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:23 AM   #21
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Although I agree that we should be drilling here, and always have, I know that he's full of crap about the Democrat congress. Dubya's gang of thieves has done nothing but obstruct everything the Dems have been trying to get through, then having the GALL to say that nothing has reached his desk. Of course it hasn't, it can't make it pass the de facto filibuster imposed by the Republicans. For those of you that don't know what that means, filibuster is an obstructionist practice that has been in use for many years. The only way to override a filibuster is to have a large enough majority to vote it down. The Dems have a majority, but not a large enough majority, so everything they're trying to do the Republicans have made it clear will be filibustered, so nothing will happen unless they get their way. Your Republicans wasting our tax dollars on obstruction, and you say they want to cut spending? That's a bit naive.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepman784 View Post
driving = not a law, that you MUST do daily

people CAN live without driving... just not very easily
He's not saying we're being forced to DRIVE, he's saying that we're being forced to buy THEIR FUEL.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:24 AM   #23
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He's not saying we're being forced to DRIVE, he's saying that we're being forced to buy THEIR FUEL.
But we aren't. Walk, ride, use alternative fuel. Easy as that.

It sucks sure, but the blame is misdirected.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:34 AM   #24
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Why? So because someone has money they should not be sensible enough to continue making profits?

That my friend is why you will never be a billionaire unless you hit the lotto.

So you think the price of gas and oil is killing the economy? Would not have anything to do with the mentality of Americans in regards to jobs, housing, personal possessions, work ethics, etc etc?
If you have billions and you go to McDonald's and you realize that you were overcharged 25 cents so you go back in to get your money back, then you are a dickhead, not a good businessman just because you saved a quarter. You are also saying that you would be ok with gas going up to $8/gallon because some guy wants more money and knows that he can? Last of all, how can you say that the cost of gas isn't hurting the economy? EVERYTHING costs more! how do you think farmers manage their crops....with big-ass diesel tractors. How do you think food gets to the stores....with big-ass diesel trucks. How do you think people get 30 miles to work in the winter....with cars that run on gas.

Overall, your saying that it's ok for a rich group of people with a monopoly to get richer, by taking money from the nation, just because they can. You also think the high gas prices don't effect anything....even though the U.S. uses millions of barrels a day. You should give common sense a shot some time, it seems to work quite well.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:37 AM   #25
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But we aren't. Walk, ride, use alternative fuel. Easy as that.

It sucks sure, but the blame is misdirected.
Really, I want to see you walk 30 miles to work in the winter.
E83 relies on oil as well, why do you think it's rising with gas prices?
Also, what about those who MUST drive for work in order to haul supplies?
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:40 AM   #26
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I agree 100% with that article in the long term, in the short term we need to be using less fuel.
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
It's not that we need to use less fuel. It's that the speculators need to stop driving the prices up.
x2
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:41 AM   #27
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Let me ask you this, if you got a killer deal on a Jeep for $1000. Then you seen the opportunity to sell it for $2000 would you?
every time.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:44 AM   #28
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even if we were able to drill our own oil on our soil, dont we have limited refinery capabilities?

how long does it take to build a refinery?

i dont think drilling oil would do us any good without more refinaries.

but then again maybe im a dumbass.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:47 AM   #29
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even if we were able to drill our own oil on our soil, dont we have limited refinery capabilities?

how long does it take to build a refinery?

i dont think drilling oil would do us any good without more refinaries.

but then again maybe im a dumbass.
since when are we unable to drill on our own soil? my dad and uncle drill for oil right in Michigan. you just need a lot of permits and a lot of money.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:51 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by pokerob View Post
even if we were able to drill our own oil on our soil, dont we have limited refinery capabilities?

how long does it take to build a refinery?

i dont think drilling oil would do us any good without more refinaries.

but then again maybe im a dumbass.
Actually you're the least dumb of all of us, because you are asking good QUESTIONS instead of making shortsighted statements.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:53 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
If you have billions and you go to McDonald's and you realize that you were overcharged 25 cents so you go back in to get your money back, then you are a dickhead, not a good businessman just because you saved a quarter. You are also saying that you would be ok with gas going up to $8/gallon because some guy wants more money and knows that he can? Last of all, how can you say that the cost of gas isn't hurting the economy? EVERYTHING costs more! how do you think farmers manage their crops....with big-ass diesel tractors. How do you think food gets to the stores....with big-ass diesel trucks. How do you think people get 30 miles to work in the winter....with cars that run on gas.

Overall, your saying that it's ok for a rich group of people with a monopoly to get richer, by taking money from the nation, just because they can. You also think the high gas prices don't effect anything....even though the U.S. uses millions of barrels a day. You should give common sense a shot some time, it seems to work quite well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clint357 View Post
Really, I want to see you walk 30 miles to work in the winter.
E83 relies on oil as well, why do you think it's rising with gas prices?
Also, what about those who MUST drive for work in order to haul supplies?
Did I say that oil doesn't effect the economy at all....NO but you are a fool if you attribute the economies problems solely on the price of fuel.

Ok, lets say we go ahead with your thinking. Let the feds in to 'manage' that industry. Tell me what you will end up with? Do you honestly think things will be better?

There are a lot of choices in life that people think are not choices. It is your choice to live 30 miles from your job. Now you will say it isn't because you own your house, or have a lease, or its the best paying job you can find and the closest to your house as you can get. Bullshit, it is still a choice. It is your choice to drive something that doesn't get 35 mpg. It is your choice not to walk to work be it 30 miles or 3 miles. Fuck buy a horse and ride it to work.

You won't see me walk to work 30 miles in the winter. Then again I live closer than 30 miles to work, and I know that I will pay the gas prices and STFU because I know it is a business. Businesses are there to make money, it is the AMERICAN WAY. Go to a nation that the Gov't controls things and report back to tell me how you like it.

Lastly, I am well aware what the price of fuel effects. I am also well aware what the ramping up production on Ethanol effects. The guy that has to drive for a living hopefully will be recouping the costs from the customer or honestly he shouldn't be in business. In the short term sure you will have to eat a bit to ease the customer into the higher costs, however, in the end you should be able to maintain the same margin you were making. If you can't then get ready to start packing your bags.

I think I covered everything. Obviously we will not see eye to eye on this and I am becoming quite used to it. I have common sense, but I also have business sense and know what happens when we let the feds intervene on anything of such. So step back and take a look at it yourself.

Either way, I think this thread increases my blood pressure a bit much so I will stay out of the conversation and just sit back and read.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 11:59 AM   #32
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"Either way, I think this thread increases my blood pressure a bit much so I will stay out of the conversation and just sit back and read."

X2

http://www.cato.org/research/article...or-050603.html

Last edited by clint357; June 10th, 2008 at 12:03 PM.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by deuce228 View Post
Did I say that oil doesn't effect the economy at all....NO but you are a fool if you attribute the economies problems solely on the price of fuel.

Ok, lets say we go ahead with your thinking. Let the feds in to 'manage' that industry. Tell me what you will end up with? Do you honestly think things will be better?

There are a lot of choices in life that people think are not choices. It is your choice to live 30 miles from your job. Now you will say it isn't because you own your house, or have a lease, or its the best paying job you can find and the closest to your house as you can get. Bullshit, it is still a choice. It is your choice to drive something that doesn't get 35 mpg. It is your choice not to walk to work be it 30 miles or 3 miles. Fuck buy a horse and ride it to work.

You won't see me walk to work 30 miles in the winter. Then again I live closer than 30 miles to work, and I know that I will pay the gas prices and STFU because I know it is a business. Businesses are there to make money, it is the AMERICAN WAY. Go to a nation that the Gov't controls things and report back to tell me how you like it.

Lastly, I am well aware what the price of fuel effects. I am also well aware what the ramping up production on Ethanol effects. The guy that has to drive for a living hopefully will be recouping the costs from the customer or honestly he shouldn't be in business. In the short term sure you will have to eat a bit to ease the customer into the higher costs, however, in the end you should be able to maintain the same margin you were making. If you can't then get ready to start packing your bags.

I think I covered everything. Obviously we will not see eye to eye on this and I am becoming quite used to it. I have common sense, but I also have business sense and know what happens when we let the feds intervene on anything of such. So step back and take a look at it yourself.

Either way, I think this thread increases my blood pressure a bit much so I will stay out of the conversation and just sit back and read.
But you haven't really addressed his larger question (IMO), which is if you think it's okay for a few very rich and powerful people that have a monopoly to control government policy and finance policymakers to make it impossible (regulation) to produce our own fuel and to control the prices, to make a HUGE profit from it (ESPECIALLY the current margin... Record high), when what they are producing is part of the infrastructure of the very future of this country. What is your answer? Are you okay with that?

Look, Reagan forced the air traffic controllers back with the postulate that the service that they provide was no longer in the private sector because it was as much an integral part of our nations infrastructure as bridges and highways. The corporation for whom I work is highly regulated for the same reason. Why is oil exempt?
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Old June 10th, 2008, 12:31 PM   #34
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Chuck Norris for '08!
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Old June 10th, 2008, 12:42 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by deuce228 View Post
Lastly, I am well aware what the price of fuel effects. I am also well aware what the ramping up production on Ethanol effects. The guy that has to drive for a living hopefully will be recouping the costs from the customer or honestly he shouldn't be in business. In the short term sure you will have to eat a bit to ease the customer into the higher costs, however, in the end you should be able to maintain the same margin you were making. If you can't then get ready to start packing your bags.
this is fine.. if all of the money was staying in our economy.. unfortunately passing on the extra cost of fuel doesnt find its way back to the customer you originally charged.. it goes overseas and stays there..
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Old June 10th, 2008, 12:45 PM   #36
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Is it right for a food company or something that is damn near a necessity for living make ridiculously high record profits every month? What is a net profit of $10 billion compared to $15 billion? How much is too much when you're providing a necessity for living?

If a casket company started making record profits and people couldn't afford to bury their loved ones in anything except a burlap bag, I'm pretty sure that would be one big ass gripe for people.
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Old June 10th, 2008, 12:46 PM   #37
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I signed, did you?
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Old June 10th, 2008, 02:16 PM   #38
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Is it right for a food company or something that is damn near a necessity for living make ridiculously high record profits every month? What is a net profit of $10 billion compared to $15 billion? How much is too much when you're providing a necessity for living?

If a casket company started making record profits and people couldn't afford to bury their loved ones in anything except a burlap bag, I'm pretty sure that would be one big ass gripe for people.
RAmen Brother X2 http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=93147
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Old June 11th, 2008, 05:45 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
Is it right for a food company or something that is damn near a necessity for living make ridiculously high record profits every month? What is a net profit of $10 billion compared to $15 billion? How much is too much when you're providing a necessity for living?

If a casket company started making record profits and people couldn't afford to bury their loved ones in anything except a burlap bag, I'm pretty sure that would be one big ass gripe for people.
Whatever you say is right because of your cool tats.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 06:56 AM   #40
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Weather we like it or not, this quote from Chucks
Editorial puts it all in a nutshell.

[From the steady decline in the value of our dollar, to trade deficits and oil dependency, our sovereignty is being sold out from underneath us. Might I remind the federal government what one of their original and primary charges is: to protect the American public from the tyranny of foreign powers which is exactly what is happening through others' financial rule over us. It is sucking the life out of our economy. And Congress is virtually standing by and watching it happen.]
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