ok electrical gurus - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Ford Tech
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier All Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 3rd, 2008, 05:27 PM   #1
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default ok electrical gurus

1998 F150 4.6l with power windows.

driver side window will not go down as normal, but goes up fine. If you press the button all the way down for auto however the window will magically go all the way down when the starter motor engages the next time. If you roll it up it wont go down though as before.

Motor I'm going to assume is good, but somethings wonky somewhere else.
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old June 3rd, 2008, 06:52 PM   #2
Yetti
Buy a Fiat! Save the UAW!
 
Yetti's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: 20 minutes south of Hell...
Posts: 14,384
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

I would have to beleive its the switch assemblly. the fact is the motor works. it sounds like the door switch has a loose tab or is building a high resistance when pushed to far. swap out a known good switch assem. and see if it gets better.
__________________
Yetti
Yetti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2008, 07:26 PM   #3
Jeeperz Creeperz
Senior Member
 
Jeeperz Creeperz's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Wyandotte, MI
Posts: 3,119
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via AIM to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via MSN to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via Yahoo to Jeeperz Creeperz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos View Post
1998 F150 4.6l with power windows.

driver side window will not go down as normal, but goes up fine. If you press the button all the way down for auto however the window will magically go all the way down when the starter motor engages the next time. If you roll it up it wont go down though as before.

Motor I'm going to assume is good, but somethings wonky somewhere else.
So the next time you start the vehicle the window will automatically go all the way down? And if you put it up it will not go down again unless you press the auto-down and start the vehicle again?

Got any water leaks around the fuse box? I seem to remember something about a water leak getting into the fuse panel/GEM module, but I can't recall the specific symptoms.
Jeeperz Creeperz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2008, 08:16 PM   #4
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default

dont know, i'll have to check. I rarely drive the truck. It sits 95% of the time.
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2008, 08:20 PM   #5
bigcountrysg
Countryboy
 
bigcountrysg's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-07-07
Location: Willis Michigan
Posts: 1,599
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Sounds like the contacts in the switch are bad. Replace the switch problem should be solved.
bigcountrysg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2008, 08:24 PM   #6
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,606
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Well, I don't have any particular knowledge of this specific module, but I have some knowledge of windowlift controllers in general.

In a windowlift module, you have a set of relays in an H-bridge configuration, they control the motor itself.

You will have a single power feed, which feeds the top of the H-bridge. The fact that you A) can power down, and B) Under certain circumstances, can power up, that means that your motor is OK, most likely the relays are OK, and the power feed is ok.

Now, on most auto down features, there is a circuit which does current sensing. It latches the relays until current is sensed to a certain level via a current shunt/op amps. That circuit may be on a different power feed compared with the motor drive itself.

It could be that a wire/contact that would normally be hot in run and start, is now only hot during start.


I would agree, the switch is a good spot to start.
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2008, 10:04 PM   #7
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default

and of course wouldn't you know it. the pass window switch is keyed to not fit int he same harness connector and the driver switch from my wifes 03 expi is also keyed different. I'll have to grab one tomorrow I guess.
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2008, 10:04 PM   #8
mudbillyredneck
Senior Member
 
mudbillyredneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-17-08
Location: Lapeer, MI
Posts: 4,732
iTrader: (133)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos View Post
dont know, i'll have to check. I rarely drive the truck. It sits 95% of the time.
Sounds like the problem is only 5 % of the time...:tonka:
mudbillyredneck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2008, 06:06 PM   #9
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default

Ok, did some more troubleshooting today whilst I had to change the belt after it shredded. While I tested the AC after the belt replacement I noticed the window went auto down when I turned the AC off after running it for a few minutes. That was odd.

So, I took out my meter and tested power at the switch. It's a 4 post switch with power, up, down, auto connections. Good 12v across all 3 sets and good switch contact ( 0v when depressed). Odd again, I tested up and then down and then when I touched the auto to check the window went auto down. Just once though.

Pass switch on both doors is keyed different and is a 6 wire connection. The above was done with the vehicle running.

I then checked suspicious relays ( nothing int he chiltons or owners manual called out specifically a door window relay of any kind ). The 50 amp fuse for the master acc relay removed for inspection and when placed back in the window auto'd down without the vehicle running and the door open.

At this point I'm think about replacing the switch or at least seeing how much the dealer wants for it if I can get simply that switch. It's the only thing I have to go on at this point though.
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2008, 03:23 PM   #10
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default

Ok, I replaced the door switch today and no dice. I haven't pulled the motor yet cuz frankly its a shitty job, but I don't know what else to do at this point. I have to drill the holes out to remove it too as I haven't worked on that one before. I'm fairly certain the motor is good and its merely an electrical connection issue.
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th, 2008, 09:22 AM   #11
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default

bump bump
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th, 2008, 07:17 PM   #12
04 EDGE
Floor Shift Maddness!
 
04 EDGE's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-08-08
Location: Westland Mi
Posts: 1,372
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to 04 EDGE
Default

the master switch is cheap and very common on fords to go bad. maybe 50 bucks for a new one. i see it all the time on taurus and newer F150's
04 EDGE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6th, 2008, 09:01 PM   #13
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 EDGE View Post
the master switch is cheap and very common on fords to go bad. maybe 50 bucks for a new one. i see it all the time on taurus and newer F150's
wtf you talking about?
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16th, 2008, 09:30 AM   #14
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default

so, on Wednesday I had to dick around figuring out in my trailer wiring worked or not and in the process of metering the connector I notice my window works perfectly fine now :/

I love strangeness.


My trailer connector though has me puzzled. It's the 7 pin one, but only using 4contacts. I get voltage for all the functions but when I plug the lights in that work, I get nothing.

Odder still, my hazards work in front but not in back even though brakes, parking, and flashers work.

Do you think its a bad ground making the trailer connector not work even though I got good readings in the connector? Curious if there's a second ground or something.
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2008, 06:34 PM   #15
Jeeperz Creeperz
Senior Member
 
Jeeperz Creeperz's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Wyandotte, MI
Posts: 3,119
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via AIM to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via MSN to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via Yahoo to Jeeperz Creeperz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Well, I don't have any particular knowledge of this specific module, but I have some knowledge of windowlift controllers in general.

In a windowlift module, you have a set of relays in an H-bridge configuration, they control the motor itself.


Jeeperz Creeperz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2008, 06:36 PM   #16
Jeeperz Creeperz
Senior Member
 
Jeeperz Creeperz's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Wyandotte, MI
Posts: 3,119
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via AIM to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via MSN to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via Yahoo to Jeeperz Creeperz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos View Post
so, on Wednesday I had to dick around figuring out in my trailer wiring worked or not and in the process of metering the connector I notice my window works perfectly fine now :/

I love strangeness.
I wonder if the relay is sticking? What happens with the volt guage after you do the auto-down? (does it drop slightly then recover or stay down?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos View Post
My trailer connector though has me puzzled. It's the 7 pin one, but only using 4contacts. I get voltage for all the functions but when I plug the lights in that work, I get nothing.

Odder still, my hazards work in front but not in back even though brakes, parking, and flashers work.

Do you think its a bad ground making the trailer connector not work even though I got good readings in the connector? Curious if there's a second ground or something.
There is a ground connection for the trailer wiring. Some people rely on the trailer-to-ball connetion to ground the wiring to the vehicle but the trailer wiring plug has a ground for the trailer wiring.

Try turning on the hazards and then move the truck/trailer back and forth and see if they start working on the trailer. If so, the trailer is using the hitch ball for ground and you should run a seperate ground.
Jeeperz Creeperz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2008, 08:09 AM   #17
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default

I'm using them temporary trailer magnetic lights. I don't have a trailer. I flat tow. I'm pretty sure its a bad ground though, just haven't gotten around to running a new wire to the battery to permanently fix it.
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 23rd, 2008, 04:47 PM   #18
Jeeperz Creeperz
Senior Member
 
Jeeperz Creeperz's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Wyandotte, MI
Posts: 3,119
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via AIM to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via MSN to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via Yahoo to Jeeperz Creeperz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos View Post
I'm using them temporary trailer magnetic lights. I don't have a trailer. I flat tow. I'm pretty sure its a bad ground though, just haven't gotten around to running a new wire to the battery to permanently fix it.
You just need to run the ground for the magnet lights to the ground at the trailer plug then the vehicle wiring will take care of it from there.
Jeeperz Creeperz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2008, 09:11 PM   #19
Lothos
KD8GKB
 
Lothos's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-17-05
Location: .5 past lightspeed
Posts: 6,506
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Lothos Send a message via AIM to Lothos Send a message via Yahoo to Lothos
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeperz Creeperz View Post
You just need to run the ground for the magnet lights to the ground at the trailer plug then the vehicle wiring will take care of it from there.
one would think. The light set is good though. works fine on the expedition. Just not the f150. Something's amiss in the trailer connector.
Lothos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 24th, 2008, 09:28 PM   #20
dodger889
Senior Member
 
dodger889's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-12-08
Location: north of ann arbor, mi
Posts: 1,109
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Ok have you taken the trailer conector apart on the truck??? I wll bet that you have a lot of junk and broken wires in there...When you put it back together after repairs put some axle grease in there to provent problems later...
dodger889 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Ford Tech

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:14 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.21599 seconds with 81 queries