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Old May 20th, 2008, 03:23 PM   #21
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My problem is that I don't enjoy repeating myself. I have said time and time again that I have no proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. In case you missed it, I said I have no proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. I do, however, believe there is proof to believe beyond reasonable doubt. In other words, there are REASONS to beleive vs. not believe.

We have avaialble proof that Jesus was a real person, but not empirical proof that he was the savior of the world. So in order to make that determiniation, I am placing the entire focus on the resurrection. The reason is because if he really did rise from the grave, they surely he is more than just a man. So now we need to examine the evidence to discover if the resurrection is the most logical conclusion, or the least logical. My problem is that Mike is so historically selective and dumb, that he can't even agree that Jesus was a human who lives 2k years ago. I want to discuss WHY it is more reasonable, and I have posted a website with 10 reasons to believe so, and you did not comment on that. So how about you stop accusing, start reading, and make an on topic responce.

Fine. But you keep using the word "evidence", and the term "common sense", so I ask you:

What "evidence" is there that jesus existed BESIDES the bible.

How "common" is ANYTHING in the bible? If you can't really think of anything, then maybe you should consider using a different term. If you can finds all sorts of logic to show that the bible story is "common", then I will concede.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 03:36 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
Fine. But you keep using the word "evidence", and the term "common sense", so I ask you:

What "evidence" is there that jesus existed BESIDES the bible.

How "common" is ANYTHING in the bible? If you can't really think of anything, then maybe you should consider using a different term. If you can finds all sorts of logic to show that the bible story is "common", then I will concede.
Start here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/jesusref.html
and here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/jrthal.html
and here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qmolegos.html

Finish here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/topix.html

put your heading hat on, you will need it.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 03:37 PM   #23
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I just got my .mp3 copy of No God's No Guilt the story of Dr. Stephen Uhl's transformation from Catholic Priest to Atheist Psychologist.

you can download it here:

http://imaginenosuperstition.com/

but, I can't listen to it until I finish Dan Barker's book, Losing Faith in Faith which is about his conversion from Evangelical Preacher to the co-president of the Freedom from Religion Foundation.

the more things I read about the bible, the more I find it an immoral, inconsistent, ancient piece of garbage.
I like the presumptions that you open up as to the morality of non believers.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 03:56 PM   #24
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just 2 cents, but religion serves its purpose, keeping the masses in check, I prefer things like "snow white" or "cinderella" Fairy tales for children, religion is basically a fairy tale for adults who are afraid of being munched on by worms someday. Can I suggest investing in an airtight tomb? At least it'll be longer until you're munched on.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 04:11 PM   #25
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Hmmm.. Don't know how I missed the link Sorry 'bout that. Please post again for me.

Thanks!
Ahh, . . . . this makes perfect sense now.

Another entitelment I need everything spoon fed to me kinda guy we got here! Or he could just search.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 05:26 PM   #26
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Ahh, . . . . this makes perfect sense now.

Another entitelment I need everything spoon fed to me kinda guy we got here! Or he could just search.
Hey, you got me there. Wow. I am so embarrassed. I will never measure up to you. I will never be able to face my mother again. I am pond scum. Please shoot me.

There. Feel better? Now you can add this quote to your template like steveo did my other one (see below). Then you both can hang out with each other and make fun of me and not invite me to your parties. Boo hoo.

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Old May 20th, 2008, 05:34 PM   #27
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i dont believe in god. even if i did, i wouldn't feel guilty about the terrible things i do.
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Old May 20th, 2008, 06:03 PM   #28
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Start here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/jesusref.html Okay, this one confirms that the "historical" references to Jesus weren't made during Jesus' lifetime. Josephus wasn't even BORN until some 35 or more years after Jesus' death. But these do not verify any nonbiblical references to "miracles" or a resurrection. Sorry.
and here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/jrthal.html How is this relevant? It discusses the reliability of Thallus' description of a darkness that happened hundreds of years before he was born as being credible or not. I agree. He is not credible. Now what?
and here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qmolegos.html Again, discussing the credibility of a historian that wasn't even alive when Jesus was. So what?

Finish here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/topix.html Thanks for that one. the next time I want an apologists explanation of biblical text I will look there.

put your heading hat on, you will need it.
I read fast too.



Still waiting for that historical evidence that Jesus worked miracles and was resurrected. Also, while we're on the subject, please tell me which "eyewitnesses" to the resurrection actually wrote any of it down.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 11:12 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
Start here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/jesusref.html Okay, this one confirms that the "historical" references to Jesus weren't made during Jesus' lifetime. Josephus wasn't even BORN until some 35 or more years after Jesus' death. But these do not verify any nonbiblical references to "miracles" or a resurrection. Sorry.
and here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/jrthal.html How is this relevant? It discusses the reliability of Thallus' description of a darkness that happened hundreds of years before he was born as being credible or not. I agree. He is not credible. Now what?
and here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/qmolegos.html Again, discussing the credibility of a historian that wasn't even alive when Jesus was. So what?

Finish here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/topix.html Thanks for that one. the next time I want an apologists explanation of biblical text I will look there.

Still waiting for that historical evidence that Jesus worked miracles and was resurrected. Also, while we're on the subject, please tell me which "eyewitnesses" to the resurrection actually wrote any of it down.
Your only responce to Josephus is that he was born late? That is unfortunate, because you are WRONG. He was born 4 years after Jesus' death. See here: http://members.aol.com/FLJOSEPHUS/joschron.htm I understand that the reliability of his testimony is questioned, but you gotta wonder if what was quoted was real, which is has a likely chance to be.

I linked the other one because it is historicaly documentation which agrees with what the gospel writers wrote. And if what the gospel writers wrote, at least in part, is historically accurate, you then have to ask if the rest of what they wrote was as true as the eclipse of the sun they wrote about. You see what I mean? You are wrong again about something. Thallus et al wrote within 20-70 years of Jesus' death. What do you say now?

I am trying to get you ready to actually consider if the four gospel writers may have just told the story as it happened, instead of lying about it. The place of reason to conclude about the resurrection is not just in what the gospel writers said, but in what happened in their life as a result of having written it. Tell me when you are ready to go there.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 03:13 PM   #30
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Your only responce to Josephus is that he was born late? That is unfortunate, because you are WRONG. He was born 4 years after Jesus' death. See here: http://members.aol.com/FLJOSEPHUS/joschron.htm I understand that the reliability of his testimony is questioned, but you gotta wonder if what was quoted was real, which is has a likely chance to be.

I linked the other one because it is historicaly documentation which agrees with what the gospel writers wrote. And if what the gospel writers wrote, at least in part, is historically accurate, you then have to ask if the rest of what they wrote was as true as the eclipse of the sun they wrote about. You see what I mean? You are wrong again about something. Thallus et al wrote within 20-70 years of Jesus' death. What do you say now?

I am trying to get you ready to actually consider if the four gospel writers may have just told the story as it happened, instead of lying about it. The place of reason to conclude about the resurrection is not just in what the gospel writers said, but in what happened in their life as a result of having written it. Tell me when you are ready to go there.

Come on Dave, get real. When you read the Bible you have to know it's not true, just by the fact that any and all reference to any historical facts of that time are inaccurate in the Bible.
Oh Hmmm thats not right is it. All the historical data is correct, GEE could this mean the other things are true as well?
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Old May 21st, 2008, 03:33 PM   #31
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All the historical data is correct, GEE could this mean the other things are true as well?
that comment stinks, oh i know why, because you pulled it out of your ass.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 03:36 PM   #32
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that comment stinks, oh i know why, because you pulled it out of your ass.
OH SNAP!
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Old May 21st, 2008, 03:40 PM   #33
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OH SNAP!
e-high five...you like that?
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Old May 21st, 2008, 03:42 PM   #34
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Come on Dave, get real. When you read the Bible you have to know it's not true, just by the fact that any and all reference to any historical facts of that time are inaccurate in the Bible.
Oh Hmmm thats not right is it. All the historical data is correct, GEE could this mean the other things are true as well?
BINGO!!

The gospel writers either were insane men, or were honest men, but nothing in between. The story they told would be for their humiliation and death. So if they were not honest, they would have been insane. So based on reading the gospels, which most of the unbelieving world has not done, were these men honest or crazy? Why?
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Old May 21st, 2008, 03:58 PM   #35
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BINGO!!

The gospel writers either were insane men, or were honest men, but nothing in between. The story they told would be for their humiliation and death. So if they were not honest, they would have been insane. So based on reading the gospels, which most of the unbelieving world has not done, were these men honest or crazy? Why?
On the flip side I wonder if all the people who believe what Darwin wrote aren't the crazy ones. Darwin the scientist that had no formal scientific education or background who discovered the very essence of life. Yeah OK, no matter how you look at this it's shit, You have an uneducated guy who is dictating to the scientific community about their area of expertise. WOW talk about fantasy's and fairytales.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 04:07 PM   #36
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On the flip side I wonder if all the people who believe what Darwin wrote aren't the crazy ones. Darwin the scientist that had no formal scientific education or background who discovered the very essence of life. Yeah OK, no matter how you look at this it's shit, You have an uneducated guy who is dictating to the scientific community about their area of expertise. WOW talk about fantasy's and fairytales.
yup, shit's crazy, how could anybody believe it...:chiefwoohaw:
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Old May 21st, 2008, 04:19 PM   #37
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yup, shit's crazy, how could anybody believe it...:chiefwoohaw:
Of coarse we do have proof like Piltdown man, Nebraska man, Orce man, and Lucy.












I
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Old May 21st, 2008, 04:35 PM   #38
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did you see that flying fish set a record on the news today? a fish with wings...hmm.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 04:43 PM   #39
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did you see that flying fish set a record on the news today? a fish with wings...hmm.
I forgot about Java man and the Peppered Moth.






Hey more proof
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Old May 21st, 2008, 04:51 PM   #40
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I laugh at this every time I go in my trophy room, but it's better proof than Darwin ever gave us.



The flying delkasorous. Proof that Deer, Elk, and Turkeys, all evolved from a common species. This also proves that Cats, Deer , Elk, and Turkeys co-exsist
as allies.

Last edited by Mr Toes - R.I.P.; May 21st, 2008 at 04:55 PM.
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