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Old May 10th, 2008, 05:53 PM   #1
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Default Motorcycle-only trails designated in Michigan.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dn...N_232186_7.pdf

Of course, I ride motorcycles, but I really don't know how this benefits the ORV community other than driving a wedge between two "close" user groups.
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Old May 14th, 2008, 06:02 PM   #2
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I don't think you realize whats going on. the director is pandering to the CCC. once the towns around those areas realize what they have lost they will fight like hell to hang him.

by the way the law state that "Trail" is 50" no matter what, so how can one man change a state law?
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Old May 14th, 2008, 09:04 PM   #3
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Pandering like they do to the snowmobiles?
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Old May 15th, 2008, 07:47 AM   #4
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the director is pandering to the CCC. once the towns around those areas realize what they have lost they will fight like hell to hang him.

by the way the law state that "Trail" is 50" no matter what, so how can one man change a state law?
Yep, the Director is kowtowing to the Motorcycle constituents to effectively put into law something that the Legislature NEVER intended to happen.
When you look at the number of vehicle types sold in Michigan you wonder why anyone would think motorctycles deserve special attention. The balance of user types verses trail needs will NEVER be resolved until the DNR institutes a more concise collection of who is buying the ORV stickers. Which I don't believe will ever happen because that will just force the DNR to change their ways.
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Old May 15th, 2008, 08:21 AM   #5
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This past weekend in our travels Kim and I counted 2 trail bikes headed up north, and 27 quads.
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Old May 15th, 2008, 08:26 AM   #6
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This past weekend in our travels Kim and I counted 2 trail bikes headed up north, and 27 quads.
Run out of fingers and toes?
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Old May 15th, 2008, 08:50 AM   #7
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Run out of fingers and toes?
2+27 = 29

Pat has 20 Fingers and Toes, I assume his wife the same 20+20=40. Sounds like they had 13 more "digits" to count until it got complicated.
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Old May 15th, 2008, 09:02 AM   #8
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Did I fail to mention the chain saw incedent of 02?
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Old May 15th, 2008, 09:06 AM   #9
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2+27 = 29

Pat has 20 Fingers and Toes, I assume his wife the same 20+20=40. Sounds like they had 13 more "digits" to count until it got complicated.
Thanks for that highly educational math lesson but see Ironman's statement below.

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Did I fail to mention the chain saw incedent of 02?
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Old May 15th, 2008, 09:10 AM   #10
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Thanks for that highly educational math lesson but see Ironman's statement below.
:chiefwoohaw::tonka:

OK, so by the logic that I am left with I still assume that mrs. ironman has 20 digits. I assume that ironman still has more then seven, so I am left with the conclusion that I will not be able to determine WHEN he runs out of digits, but I feel that with a reasonable amount of certainty he had not YET ran out of digits when he counted to 27.
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Old May 15th, 2008, 09:24 AM   #11
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:chiefwoohaw::tonka:

OK, so by the logic that I am left with I still assume that mrs. ironman has 20 digits. I assume that ironman still has more then seven, so I am left with the conclusion that I will not be able to determine WHEN he runs out of digits, but I feel that with a reasonable amount of certainty he had not YET ran out of digits when he counted to 27.
Are you thinking of Ironman's "small" digit as an additional 1/2?
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Old May 15th, 2008, 09:29 AM   #12
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Not intending to drag you all back on topic or anything....

Did you notice the language of the Director's letter? This was (supposedly) in response to a mere 100 signatures on a petition. This is more a reflection of the effective organization CCC has in place more than their actual # of riders I think.
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Old May 15th, 2008, 11:50 AM   #13
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This is more a reflection of the effective organization CCC has in place more than their actual # of riders I think.
Don't you mean how deep the corruption is in the DNR?

How is it that a department can write laws without any oversight????? Where's the 'checks and balances' we seem to to be so proud of our goverment having?????? Yet, when we asked for routes the department told us the ORV law wasn't intended for us and to go find a friendly legislator to craft our own ORV law so we could develop recreational opportunities for full size vehicles. What a crock! The only government body trying to do anything for us is Genesee County with the Rock Crawl. And we're still not there yet. The DNR has had the St Helen Rock Crawl appropriation money for years and have yet to lift a finger towards making progress. It's one excuse after another.
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Old May 15th, 2008, 01:36 PM   #14
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This past weekend in our travels Kim and I counted 2 trail bikes headed up north, and 27 quads.
how many enclosed / snowmobile trailers did you see?

I know I have seen 6 quads pop out of an long enclosed snowmobile trailer before! We haul 3 bikes enclosed.

Anyhow, this really goes to show how little information there is out there and what the DNR reacts to. Maybe the CCC has pictures of the Director blowing a goat?
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Old May 15th, 2008, 04:06 PM   #15
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the ccc definetly has some power, but they have also had there problums. they had the rights of spring ride here at whiskey creek for a few years, but the dnr shut them down because they did not clean up after the way they wanted.

i have been a member of the ccc for many years and i think they have so much power because of all the organization within the ccc.there are alot of lawyers, judges and polaticians that ride dual sport and single track. the 4 wheel croud is organized but how many people are really pushing for our rights? very few... i think that is our biggest problum.

i think this is a good idea.the atv's go down the single track, hit trees, go off the trail and like was stated, widen the trail. i can show many spots on the tin cup loop, the south part of the big 0 and lincoln hills. just my 2 cents.

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Old May 15th, 2008, 08:27 PM   #16
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dude the problem is the law clearly states that TRAIL is 50". there is nothing in any one part of any law in the whole state that says the director can discriminate againest ANY user group. the problem here is power is corupt, theres no two ways about it. secondly the ORV Advisory board won't do anything to get a new director. its been riding a carry over for like 3 years with Dick at the head of it. you'd have though GW's dad was running this damn state is so corupt.
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Old May 15th, 2008, 09:30 PM   #17
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To chime in here, years back I rode 2 wheels and the only challenge was the tight trails unless you thought flying down fire roads and snowmobile trails at 50+ was fun in two way traffic around curves hidden with scrub oak growth.
The atv's had all that open to them and still you'd see places where they obviously took chain saws to open up the 24" stuff.
The point is, we all have to be together to keep a place in the woods without the posie sniffers shutting us all down.
In our minds, we don't have enough trails, the atv's have plenty and the bikes are disproportionately represented. Eventually hopefully the skinnier set will mature into fullsize and help us out numbers wise.
Divide and conquer is a favorite tactic of those in the upper echelons of society, we don't have to do it to ourselves.
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Old May 16th, 2008, 01:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yetti View Post
I don't think you realize whats going on. the director is pandering to the CCC. once the towns around those areas realize what they have lost they will fight like hell to hang him.

by the way the law state that "Trail" is 50" no matter what, so how can one man change a state law?

It could be the DNR is supressing the off road comunity as a whole, they are very aware that the % of motorcycles as a total of OHV is small. By passing this order they have effectively limited the amount of vehicle traffic total in the designated areas.
This trend could continue and cause the total OHV population into a smaller and smaller area in the state. This would meet the desire of the "green" movement to make more of the world wilderness. If I was them I would support designating more and more trails accessable to a smaller and smaller population. This meets their objective
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Old May 16th, 2008, 01:25 PM   #19
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This would meet the desire of the "green" movement to make more of the world wilderness. If I was them I would support designating more and more trails accessable to a smaller and smaller population. This meets their objective
unfortunately, making more of Michigan a wilderness isn't in the DNR's plans - anybody that rides the ORV trails regularly can watch the deforestation happen on a weekly basis.
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Old May 16th, 2008, 02:54 PM   #20
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anybody that rides the ORV trails regularly can watch the deforestation happen on a weekly basis.
Yep, it sure is amazing that the DNR will post a route/trail closed because of it getting rutted out and is becoming difficult for a 2WD vehicle and we're in violation of our sacred 'Forest Certification' and then see a logging crew in there the next week and the horizon is a half mile away and all you see are slashings and stumps and ruts the size or Rhode Island! It's all about the $$$$$. The DNR has said publically that we (full size vehicles) as a recreation don't put anything into the economy. They also don't believe we spend much money out of state. That's why the tailgate reports are so important. We need facts to get them to understand our impact. We also need some 'friendly' legislators to pitch our cause and help sponsor bills that will benefit us. This is one area that the CCC trumps us. They have a paid Executive that lobbies for them in Lansing. We don't. Here again it's all about the $$$$. Just look at the uproar when GLFWDA tried to raise dues just to cover minimal expenses of the Assn.
I apologize for the soapbox but it gets frustrating each time I see one group make progress and we're mired down in the 'can't do' attitude of the DNR.
It will never change untill we get representation in Lansing.
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