Pagan Religion? - Page 2 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 10th, 2008, 12:01 PM   #21
no1likesme
not Frank Sinatra
 
no1likesme's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-10-08
Location: shepherd, MI
Posts: 678
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to no1likesme Send a message via MSN to no1likesme
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I think the simple answer is that we don't follow pagan religions because our parents didn't. Most religious people prescribe to the religion of their ancestors. Some will claim to have studied many religions and picked one, but I think even most of them end up choosing the religion they learned of as a child.

As to why our ancestors chose to follow the more "modern" monotheistic religions rather then the "ancient" polytheistic religions we could probably debate that until the end of time.

Dave Kerwin and friends will say that it's because the fact that their beliefs are based on writings of people that claim to have been eyewitnesses to the events on which the beliefs are based, whereas the ancient religions are based on legends of things that happened before the age of recorded history, or that happened in some "mythical" place beyond the view of humans . To them that makes their beliefs more credible and believable.

84Scrambler and friends will say/said that all religions are mythical legends, and that the only reason "modern" religions are more popular than ancient religions is that the religions that wrote nifty books, and marketed themselves better, sometimes with the point of a sword or gun barrel, became the dominate religion and the other simply died out as a result.

Me, being the extreme moderate I am, believe the truth is somewhere in between.
you sir, have just won the game. I cannot add or detract anything to/from this response.

you deserve a
no1likesme is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old May 10th, 2008, 12:14 PM   #22
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,990
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no1likesme View Post
what are you basing this on? There is as much or more evidence supporting many of these faiths as Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and other mainstream religions.

btw the bible is not usable evidence against these faiths as most of them have just as many written accounts supporting their existence.
oh man, that was just too easy. I was joking guys. Way to easy. OH, and I highly doubt that any of the "pagan Relgions" have near as many documents pertaining to them as Christianity. I won't ask you to prove it though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorelord View Post
Fairy tales LOL

There is no credible evidence for any religion, other than we are related to pond scum and thats not a religion its fact.
I would like to see said fact that we are from pond scum. You're wrong in saying it's fact. It's theory. You can't prove that scientifically anymore then I can prove that God created the Universe in 6 days.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2008, 12:28 PM   #23
no1likesme
not Frank Sinatra
 
no1likesme's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-10-08
Location: shepherd, MI
Posts: 678
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to no1likesme Send a message via MSN to no1likesme
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
oh man, that was just too easy. I was joking guys. Way to easy. OH, and I highly doubt that any of the "pagan Relgions" have near as many documents pertaining to them as Christianity. I won't ask you to prove it though.
so are you are saying that there are fewer written accounts of greek mythology than christian? What about the Egyptian book of the dead? Many of these religions have as much documentation, and that is not including oral traditions, and documents destroyed by Christians.
no1likesme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2008, 03:20 PM   #24
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,990
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no1likesme View Post
so are you are saying that there are fewer written accounts of greek mythology than christian? What about the Egyptian book of the dead? Many of these religions have as much documentation, and that is not including oral traditions, and documents destroyed by Christians.
I'm saying that there are plenty of documents that equal if not surpass the amount of other documents. Now, the reason behind that could be because of people claiming to do the lords work and destroying other documents.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2008, 04:04 PM   #25
84Scrambler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Lansing
Posts: 5,943
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to 84Scrambler
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
so there is NO difference, one to the other? perhaps you missed where I asked for specifics.
Dave, no matter what either of us say, we are going to disagree. I don't believe any religion is anything other than people making up explanations for things they don't understand. I have reached a point in my life where I am comfortable with the fact that there are many things I don't understand. I am also comfortable not making up stories to explain them. I don't need some fairy tale to make me feel better about myself or my life. So, on that basis I don't spend a whole lot of time doing research into something I don't believe in, agree with, or have any true interest in.
84Scrambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2008, 06:42 PM   #26
no1likesme
not Frank Sinatra
 
no1likesme's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-10-08
Location: shepherd, MI
Posts: 678
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to no1likesme Send a message via MSN to no1likesme
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I'm saying that there are plenty of documents that equal if not surpass the amount of other documents. Now, the reason behind that could be because of people claiming to do the lords work and destroying other documents.
This may just be because I am an idiot but I didn't get what this post was saying.
no1likesme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2008, 08:18 PM   #27
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,990
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no1likesme View Post
This may just be because I am an idiot but I didn't get what this post was saying.

I was agreeing with you. I guess. The Documents that are related to any religion are usually numerous because of the following that a relgion will usually create. Consistencey is the trick in all those kinds of Documents.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2008, 08:37 PM   #28
no1likesme
not Frank Sinatra
 
no1likesme's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-10-08
Location: shepherd, MI
Posts: 678
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to no1likesme Send a message via MSN to no1likesme
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
I was agreeing with you. I guess. The Documents that are related to any religion are usually numerous because of the following that a relgion will usually create. Consistencey is the trick in all those kinds of Documents.
ok, I guess I cannot read
no1likesme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2008, 10:13 PM   #29
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 4,990
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no1likesme View Post
ok, I guess I cannot read
No, I didn't make any sense. I have brain farts alot.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 11th, 2008, 11:36 PM   #30
dodger889
Senior Member
 
dodger889's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-12-08
Location: north of ann arbor, mi
Posts: 1,109
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Ok let see if I can bring something into this from being on neither side and believing both sides. Ok any way we look at this every one could say they have a belief that there is something out there greater than us. We all have that we all came from the same source... that where we live was created... cool I'm on a roll ( LOL ) now were we differ is whom did all this.... Weather it is how the pagans believe or how known religion believes is where the questions lay. Now with this I have come to understand they are both right in what is and was taught.. The problem is structured reading is... Ok for those who read the bible not most of it was written the by eyewitness it was done orally for about 100 to 200 years after the death of Jesus.... in fact none was written by anyone that knew Jesus in person or alive durning his time. There is proof of this..Not saying that there was not written records but not any parts of the bible....
dodger889 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2008, 12:08 PM   #31
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,693
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Scrambler View Post
Dave, no matter what either of us say, we are going to disagree. I don't believe any religion is anything other than people making up explanations for things they don't understand. I have reached a point in my life where I am comfortable with the fact that there are many things I don't understand. I am also comfortable not making up stories to explain them. I don't need some fairy tale to make me feel better about myself or my life. So, on that basis I don't spend a whole lot of time doing research into something I don't believe in, agree with, or have any true interest in.
Then don't embarass yourself by making claims you are unable to back up. If you don't have REASONS to believe that faith in Zeus is as unfounded as faith in Christ, then don't make the claim.

I understand that you have not reasearched, and that you think me and billions of others to be mindless weak people, but who is mindless, he who studies or he who does not?
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2008, 12:18 PM   #32
deuce228
Redneck Poser
 
deuce228's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: West Branch, MI
Posts: 7,971
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

There is a problem tho Dave.

I don't know if you will understand the scope because of your morals and beliefs but I could be a man of Oz spending hours studying and following the words of the books of Oz. To you this would likely seem ludicrous because Oz is a fiction and why would anyone lead their life and spend endless hours studying a fictional tale.

Now to the flip side. Many people feel that the bible is just as much of a fictional tale, mind you obviously far more in depth but that was the easiest example to think of at the moment.
So to some it is just as ludicrous.
deuce228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2008, 12:25 PM   #33
87'YJ
Jeeps, Journey and Jesus
 
87'YJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Columbus
Posts: 1,651
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

The reason most pagan religions (and there are thousands, you really need to be more specific), are not practiced in our world today (or at least in our culture) is because they have no factual base.

Christianity and Judaism have sound facts that can be proven, for example, historically they add up. There are many proven dates and places and REAL people that both of these religions speak of. With Paganism and many myths associated with them, they are all in make believe lands or with make believe people or there have been NO findings that prove them to be true. That is one reason that our educated culture does not believe them.

Another reason is that they hold false promises. I know this point will bring alot of heat, but hear me out. Wicca or witchcraft, black magics, whatever paganism you're talking about here, hold promises that you can have a "secret" knowledge that will bring you power. Wether it be through spells, chants or sacrifices, these religions promise having power over others, or power over crops, or power over success, whatever! The reason that this is not embraced today is once again our education. We know how the weather works, we know that speaking in chants won't bring about special powers, etc. I would argue that the promises of Christianity (and even judaism to an extent) are more "tangible". Promise 1) Living a moral life and loving others will lead to a fullfilled life, Promise 2) Believing that you have made mistakes and trusting that Jesus paid with death for those mistakes will bring a full Life (and bring eternal Life, but this is just tangible promises I am making a point on)

thoughts?
87'YJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2008, 12:35 PM   #34
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,693
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce228 View Post
Many people feel that the bible is just as much of a fictional tale.
And those people are idiots, who do not understand history or documented text. What else can I possibly say? If someone rejects ALL of human history, then they take THEMSELVES out of reality. I cannot talk with someone living some fantasy life outside of reality. Jesus walked the Earth, said and did a lot of things, now deal with it. For someone to claim he never existed does not fool me, they only fool themselves. So stupid!!
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2008, 12:46 PM   #35
84Scrambler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Lansing
Posts: 5,943
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to 84Scrambler
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
And those people are idiots, who do not understand history or documented text. What else can I possibly say? If someone rejects ALL of human history, then they take THEMSELVES out of reality. I cannot talk with someone living some fantasy life outside of reality. Jesus walked the Earth, said and did a lot of things, now deal with it. For someone to claim he never existed does not fool me, they only fool themselves. So stupid!!
I am not questioning the existence of some guy a couple thousand years ago that was one hell of a marketing genius. I just disagree with the whole risen again, saved, creation, etc... I don't doubt that the bible is based loosely on actual historical events. Most fictional works are influenced by the events unfolding at the time they are written. The bible is just a fictional story book that has been pumped, rewritten, twisted, etc by whatever group is in power over the past 2000 years. Personally, I think you must be an idiot for believing it is somehow some perfect guide to living, just as you refer to me as an idiot for not agreeing with your beliefs. :chiefwoohaw:
84Scrambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2008, 12:52 PM   #36
deuce228
Redneck Poser
 
deuce228's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: West Branch, MI
Posts: 7,971
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
And those people are idiots, who do not understand history or documented text. What else can I possibly say? If someone rejects ALL of human history, then they take THEMSELVES out of reality. I cannot talk with someone living some fantasy life outside of reality. Jesus walked the Earth, said and did a lot of things, now deal with it. For someone to claim he never existed does not fool me, they only fool themselves. So stupid!!
Manson walked the earth and said alot of things that came true. He too had and still has followers.
deuce228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2008, 12:55 PM   #37
84Scrambler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Lansing
Posts: 5,943
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to 84Scrambler
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deuce228 View Post
Manson walked the earth and said alot of things that came true. He too had and still has followers.
So did Hitler. He wrote a book too that many people still follow.
84Scrambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2008, 12:56 PM   #38
deuce228
Redneck Poser
 
deuce228's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: West Branch, MI
Posts: 7,971
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Scrambler View Post
So did Hitler. He wrote a book too that many people still follow.
Another good point. Thank you.
deuce228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2008, 01:05 PM   #39
87'YJ
Jeeps, Journey and Jesus
 
87'YJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Columbus
Posts: 1,651
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Scrambler View Post
I am not questioning the existence of some guy a couple thousand years ago that was one hell of a marketing genius. I just disagree with the whole risen again, saved, creation, etc... I don't doubt that the bible is based loosely on actual historical events. Most fictional works are influenced by the events unfolding at the time they are written. The bible is just a fictional story book that has been pumped, rewritten, twisted, etc by whatever group is in power over the past 2000 years. Personally, I think you must be an idiot for believing it is somehow some perfect guide to living, just as you refer to me as an idiot for not agreeing with your beliefs. :chiefwoohaw:
I have to agree with Kerwin on this. The Bible isn't "loosely" based on historical fact, it is the cornerstone of most modern archeology in the middle east because of its accuracy!!! Almost every single place and battle (and even person) in the Bible has been historically proven. That lends to the authority of this written text. Its hard to make up lies when all of history supports the characters and places.

Also, the Bible is the same bible as was written. Ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls?! They contain some of the oldest original biblical texts, and they matched perfectly what we have today. PROVING that the Bible has remained unchanged. And the Dead Sea Scrolls aren't the only finding proving this.

So, a slight bit of education may be necessary on your end to truly understand why what you said is horribly unaccurate.
87'YJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2008, 01:10 PM   #40
84Scrambler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Lansing
Posts: 5,943
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to 84Scrambler
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87'YJ View Post
I have to agree with Kerwin on this. The Bible isn't "loosely" based on historical fact, it is the cornerstone of most modern archeology in the middle east because of its accuracy!!! Almost every single place and battle (and even person) in the Bible has been historically proven. That lends to the authority of this written text. Its hard to make up lies when all of history supports the characters and places.

Also, the Bible is the same bible as was written. Ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls?! They contain some of the oldest original biblical texts, and they matched perfectly what we have today. PROVING that the Bible has remained unchanged. And the Dead Sea Scrolls aren't the only finding proving this.

So, a slight bit of education may be necessary on your end to truly understand why what you said is horribly unaccurate.
Yep, how could I ever doubt people living 900+ years. Ok, it contains fact of people and places. However, the so-called miracles of wine to water, rising from the dead, etc are horseshit. It is the theological side I disagree with. It is fantasy. Fiction. Make believe. Stories made up by people to either control other people or to make themselves appear amazingly smart and be put in positions of power.
84Scrambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
Tags
burning in hell, dirty heathens

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:48 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.39570 seconds with 80 queries