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Old May 8th, 2008, 02:08 PM   #1
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Default ORV Advisory Board Meeting

A brief report of last night's meeting:

* The April 10th revision of the ORV Plan is expected to be approved by the NRC today (probably already has)

* Director's Order establishing 24" trails for cycle use only is expected to be approved by the NRC today (probably already has).

* CCC attended a National Association of Professional Trail Builders Association conference in Las Vegas to study new equipment- they reported that they, surprisingly to them, didn't see anything that would work any better than what Michigan is already using.

* Glenn Moll reported that ORV Damages of $22,071 to a private property owner in Luce County. That's TRIPLE the actual cost of restoration, PLUS the cost of obtaining the estimate, PLUS court costs!

* Huron Side MVUM (Motor Vehicle Use Map) is now available - if it's not on the map, it's no longer legal to drive it, regardless of barriers or indications on the ground.

* Safety Education was discussed - GLFWDA commented that the current program offers zero educational opportunities for the full sized 4x4 ORV enthusiast and that, to be proactive, we offer our own 4WD Awareness Classes and would gratefully welcome an opportunity to work with the Department to figure out a way to address this current need.

* New ORV Trail and Route Maps are expected to be completed and available at http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...070---,00.html by Memorial Day weekend.

* Long Range Financial Planning is expected to begin soon (Thank you to GLFWDA Treasurer and Land Use Committee member Paul Hittie for representing 4x4 on the Planning Subcommittee)

* NOHVCC Will be having a meeting September 26th in Mackinaw in conjunction with a CCC event at the Black Lake <50" scramble area
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Old May 8th, 2008, 02:13 PM   #2
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What is your knowledge of SB296? The law in the works to change it so kids younger than 10 would be able to ride an ATV over 50cc?
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Old May 8th, 2008, 06:39 PM   #3
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* Huron Side MVUM (Motor Vehicle Use Map) is now available - if it's not on the map, it's no longer legal to drive it, regardless of barriers or indications on the ground.
Where do we find these?
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Old May 9th, 2008, 08:39 AM   #4
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What is your knowledge of SB296? The law in the works to change it so kids younger than 10 would be able to ride an ATV over 50cc?
This is my boss's bill, so I can explain in detail. Let me know if you have any other questions after reading my explanation:

Senate Bill 296 would amend Part 811 to permit children of any age to operate any type of ORV (except for a three-wheeled ATV) at an organized ORV riding or racing event conducted in accordance with the bill's requirements (and any rules promulgated by the Department of Natural Resources). At such events, children, regardless of age, would not be required to have an ORV safety certificate, and the rule prohibiting children between the age of 10 and 12 from operating four-wheeled ATVs except on private land owned by a parent or guardian would not apply.

(currently, anyone under 16 may only operate an ATV/ORV on their parent's private property, under visual supervision of parent, and must posess safety certificate)

This law is being amended because many out-of-state kids come to Michigan to participate in sanctioned ORV racing events and they obviously do not (and can't really get) a Michigan ORV safety certificate. Given our economy, we do not want to be turning away any tourism revenue right now. Additionally, Michigan kids have been participating in these races illegally, although they did not realize it was illegal. This will ensure that no one is in trouble for participating in a sport they enjoy.

Here are the regulations that must be followed for a kid under 16 to participate in these events:


• The child is participating in an organized ORV riding or racing event held on land that is not owned by the state.

• The child's parent or legal guardian has provided the event organizer with written permission for the child to participate in the event.

• The event organizer has at least $500,000 liability insurance coverage for the event.

• A physician or physician's assistant, or a paramedic or emergency medical technician is present at the site of the event or is on call.

• The event is at all times under the supervision of adult staff of the event organizer, and a staff member serves as a "flagger" to warn ORV riders if another ORV rider is injured or an ORV is inoperable in the ORV operating area.

• Fencing or another means of crowd control is used to keep spectators out of the
ORV operating area.

• If the event is on a closed course, dust is controlled in the ORV operating area and the riding surface is otherwise prepared properly.

• Participants do not use three-wheeled ATVs.
• Any ATVs used by participants are equipped with a side step bar or comparable safety equipment and with a tether kill switch, and all participants use the tether.

• Each participant in the event wears a U.S. Department of Transportation-approved crash helmet, a protective long-sleeved shirt or jacket, long pants, boots, and protective gloves.
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Old May 9th, 2008, 08:50 AM   #5
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Where do we find these?
By mail or at any of the forest service offices. Not sure if the Internet version will be any good, but it looks like they are still developing the page, can't get it to load.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/hmnf/pages/Recreation/mvum.htm

Sorry, didn't think to grab more than one paper copy, and she had a big stack available.
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Old May 9th, 2008, 08:58 AM   #6
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Yea I want to get one of those. Where else could I get one. Wouldn't any place that sells ORV stickers have the maps?
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Old May 9th, 2008, 09:14 AM   #7
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Yea I want to get one of those. Where else could I get one. Wouldn't any place that sells ORV stickers have the maps?
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By mail or at any of the forest service offices.
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Old May 9th, 2008, 09:25 AM   #8
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Where do we find these?
http://www.glfwda.org/showthread.php?t=5818

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Old May 9th, 2008, 09:27 AM   #9
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Yea I want to get one of those. Where else could I get one. Wouldn't any place that sells ORV stickers have the maps?

Unfortunately not, you'll have to get them from the National Forest Service.
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Old May 9th, 2008, 10:29 AM   #10
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ok thank you
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Old May 9th, 2008, 11:51 AM   #11
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You can get to some of them by using the link below. The one I downloaded was 11MB

http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/hmnf/pages/R...vummaps_huron/
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Old May 9th, 2008, 12:27 PM   #12
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So Manistee is still fair game till next year? I have been out extensively mapping these trails the past week.
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Old May 9th, 2008, 02:56 PM   #13
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So Manistee is still fair game till next year? I have been out extensively mapping these trails the past week.

AWESOME!!!!

We NEED your data!

It is MOST useful when it is accompanied by a "list" indicating the condition of each track.

Was a track a paved road, two land dirt road, two track, 4wd trail, etc.?

We're working on a pdf document that will teach the KOTARO method of gps mapping. It helps if we're all using the same "system" of data collection/recording.
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Old May 9th, 2008, 03:07 PM   #14
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AWESOME!!!!

We NEED your data!

It is MOST useful when it is accompanied by a "list" indicating the condition of each track.

Was a track a paved road, two land dirt road, two track, 4wd trail, etc.?

We're working on a pdf document that will teach the KOTARO method of gps mapping. It helps if we're all using the same "system" of data collection/recording.

Im recording them on a hacked tomtom GO 510 with a sample taken every second. Each sample includes coordinates, altitude, and pitch. I am also putting placemarks at any interesting features, landmarks, or scenic areas. I drive at a speed less than 10mph while taking samples, so the resulting overlay onto a map is very high resolution (the curves actually look like curves, instead of being a couple straight lines at angles forming a curve.)

The files are outputted in gpx format. Also, being a professional photographer, I am taking photos of any neat things or features along the trails, and will eventually link them to the correct coordinates on the map, along with noting the condition of the trail, and any obstacles that could be tricky to get around.

I just hope I am not breaking the law by going down some of these. I have been going off the little brown forest road signs, along with any evidence that it is an actively used trail. I am a bit aprehensive about driving down trails that looks like they havent been used in quite some time, or ones that I can greatly question their legality.

I hope some day soon we can have a real, up to date map of what is legal and what is not.


I have been having issues getting more than one gpx at a time into google earth (example: each branch off a main trail, I start a new file. Number them all. That way I am not overlapping at all on my return trip to the next branch, etc.), however, I will be more than happy to supply my data if you guys can use it.

I am focusing on the Holton/Twin Lake up to about balwin, along with some patches near Mesick, Beulah, and Honor.

Last edited by Foamer; May 9th, 2008 at 03:14 PM.
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Old May 9th, 2008, 03:48 PM   #15
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Wow - do you have help Foamer or is this a solo project?
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Old May 9th, 2008, 08:01 PM   #16
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Wow - do you have help Foamer or is this a solo project?
Solo right now, but if anyone wants to help, I definitely wont fight it.

And I was just in Burton today :) Used to live there with the parents till I moved over here to Grand Haven a few months ago. Lived right behind For-Mar Nature Preserve.
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Old May 10th, 2008, 05:40 AM   #17
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[QUOTE=MiniJ;1095630]This is my boss's bill, so I can explain in detail. Let me know if you have any other questions after reading my explanation:

Senate Bill 296 would amend Part 811 to permit children of any age to operate any type of ORV (except for a three-wheeled ATV) at an organized ORV riding or racing event conducted in accordance with the bill's requirements (and any rules promulgated by the Department of Natural Resources). At such events, children, regardless of age, would not be required to have an ORV safety certificate, and the rule prohibiting children between the age of 10 and 12 from operating four-wheeled ATVs except on private land owned by a parent or guardian would not apply.

(currently, anyone under 16 may only operate an ATV/ORV on their parent's private property, under visual supervision of parent, and must posess safety certificate)

So If this goes through , will the existing law still be in effect for youths riding on state trails?

If this true, I would think this could create alot of confusion.
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Old May 10th, 2008, 06:52 PM   #18
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Wow - do you have help Foamer or is this a solo project?

Here is a post I made showing the sweeter Rd. area and Greenwood twp. MI.

http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=89446
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Old May 11th, 2008, 07:44 AM   #19
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So If this goes through , will the existing law still be in effect for youths riding on state trails?

If this true, I would think this could create alot of confusion.

Yes, this will only apply for kids participating in sanctioned events, which are track type races (like the kind dirtbike riders have, but using atvs).

Essentially why we're doing this is because these events have been happening for a few years, but anyone under 16 who has participated has been doing so illegally. Because parents don't actually read entire state law, they don't always realize that letting their child ride somewhere other than their own property is illegal, especially in an event that is open to under 16. In addition, the event organizers didn't realize it was illegal either, because they have kids come from all over the united states, where each state has different regulations regarding safety certificates and ages who can ride. This will provide a more level playing field and allow both in-state and out-of-state riders to compete together.

I don't see it causing any more confusion to the people who just use it for recreation and are out on the trails. But I'll mention it to my boss just in case.
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Old May 11th, 2008, 08:09 AM   #20
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Given our economy, we do not want to be turning away any tourism revenue right now.
Have you had any discussions with your boss about how many people with full size rigs go out of state for challenging areas? Now dissing you here at all but it's frustrating that our state goes through so much effort to promote a sport like motocross where there are high speeds & jumps, etc but not helping with our sport which is realitively slow, quiet and safe.

Can he help us? What's his interest level?

Thanks
Jim
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