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Old May 8th, 2008, 06:15 PM   #21
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You are right that politics can really screw up a contry, hell look where we live. But leaving it to private charities is just not going to work either.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am willing to sacrifice if the money goes where it needs to go. As I have said before, my son has no insurance, can not afford to buy his own and works his ass off to get what he has.[/COLOR]
How old is your kid? What does he work his ass off doing that he cant afford individual health insurance?
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Old May 8th, 2008, 08:43 PM   #22
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So, with all these numbers and statistics flying around, we have an estimated 5% of the population falling through the cracks when it comes to access to quality, affordable, preventative health care. What would be the real cost (in the greater scheme of things) of providing some kind of government backed, basic health coverage for these people.

If you find a job that provides or offers insurance, you are no longer in the program.

If you make over X dollars you can afford to buy your own and you are out of the program.

Provide for that 5% that is not covered. Why should the minority suffer? And if it is just 5% that need this help, it should not be a huge financial burden to this country.

Just my thoughts.
I wouldn't have a problem with paying a little more in taxes a program that would help those that "fall through the cracks". Especially since I, our someone I care about could be the next one to fall. The problem, as 3-foot points out, is limiting it to a safety net for the people who really need it and not letting it turn into a huge government give away.
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Old May 8th, 2008, 09:09 PM   #23
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How old is your kid? What does he work his ass off doing that he cant afford individual health insurance?

He is 25, living on his own and working a job that pays a bit above minimum wage. He has to pay for his rent, car, etc. Not to mention food.
Have you priced individual health care lately? I have not, but understand it to be quite a bit.
As far as what he actually does, or where he works, that is really no ones business.

There are many that can not afford the cost of health care along with the other essentials they must pay for.
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Old May 8th, 2008, 09:21 PM   #24
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I wouldn't have a problem with paying a little more in taxes a program that would help those that "fall through the cracks". Especially since I, our someone I care about could be the next one to fall. The problem, as 3-foot points out, is limiting it to a safety net for the people who really need it and not letting it turn into a huge government give away.

Yea, I would be leery of the government screwing it up. But is that worry worth leaving these people without? Oversight should be put in place. Maybe a little more government regulation in the right places. I know how some hate that idea, but things are not really working out for some people with the present system. Change can be good.

As said below, saying the idea would fail is pure speculation at this point. Funny thing is, you hear this kind of speculation any time something is propsed that a segment of the people are against.

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You are speculating. Sure, it sounds very possible, but you are still speculating as to why it can't be done, when it hasn't even happened yet. ..............................

I guess my background has made me more "liberal" when it comes to these kinds of ideas.
My wife and I had almost nothing when we were first married. Lost a job simply because I asked when I might expect a raise. Damn me for bucking the corporate system.
Then, jobs when I could get them, assistance when I needed to keep a roof over my families head. School when I could get in.
I know what it is like to struggle and do without. I am glad I do not have that problem now. Maybe this is why I champion the cause.

Now of course, my parents went through things that I could never imagine. And I challenge anyone to come close.

They both survived German/Nazi occupation of the Netherlands. My father hiding form Germans since he was that age that was being sent to work camps, and not coming back. Yes, he was shot at by German soldiers......while trying to grab a few potatoes out of a farmers field.
Then my Mother spent her teen years trying to keep her brother and sister with her in the orphanage in Rotterdam. He parents had been killed during an air raid (allied bombers missing their target and hitting in the middle of residential Rotterdam).

They both endured a hell that no one can imagine, unless they lived through an occupation themselves.

They raised me to be compassionate to others. They raised me to be understanding of those who have less.

Of course there is always a limit to generosity. People that are trying but still do without deserve help. Those that simply choose not to try, well, I am not inclined to offer a whole lot of sympathy there.
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Old May 8th, 2008, 09:28 PM   #25
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Oh yea, sorry for the ramblings. But sometimes I feel it is worthwhile to not only express my opinion, but also to explain where my opinions come from.

So, go ahead and flame me for what I think, and make yourself look the fool when the history of my makeup comes to life.
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Old May 9th, 2008, 11:11 AM   #26
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You are speculating. Sure, it sounds very possible, but you are still speculating as to why it can't be done, when it hasn't even happened yet. Following that methodology it would be equally fair to say that if we cut taxes then bridges will collapse, and use the recent collapse as proof because some time before the collapse the governor of the state veto'd a budget to improve the bridge, or something like that.
I don't get how your bridge story follows along with what I am saying in any way, but it's a nice straw man argument. Back to the topic...

Be honest, you can see examples of this everyday.

The corporate tax rate is one example. One side says they will keep it at 39% or drop it to 25%. The other side says they will raise it to "help the middle class", or is it punish the "evil rich"? What most people who believe that don't realize is that a corporate tax is a tax on everyone it doesn't punish the "evil rich" (whoever they are). It punishes the people as a whole, we pay that tax not the corporations. It drives business overseas to countries with lower tax rates and takes good jobs with it. Jobs that come with health care benefits. All to buy votes and win elections.

A little light reading.......
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publica...how/22917.html

Class warfare over government programs is a standard practice on both sides of the aisle. This program, if it happens, will be victim to this like every other program that has come before it.
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Old May 9th, 2008, 09:22 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by PeteC View Post
He is 25, living on his own and working a job that pays a bit above minimum wage. He has to pay for his rent, car, etc. Not to mention food.
Have you priced individual health care lately? I have not, but understand it to be quite a bit.
As far as what he actually does, or where he works, that is really no ones business.

There are many that can not afford the cost of health care along with the other essentials they must pay for.

Yes I have priced individual health care.

How can you argue about the cost of care when you admittedly don't know what you're talking about? You are in these health care conversations all the time using your son as an example.
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Old May 10th, 2008, 09:43 PM   #28
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Yes I have priced individual health care.

How can you argue about the cost of care when you admittedly don't know what you're talking about? You are in these health care conversations all the time using your son as an example.

Actually, I have been in 2 and posted a hand full of times, maybe.

So, what would the cost of basic health care be for a 25 yr. old male living in Michigan? Please educate me on how affordable it is.
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Old May 10th, 2008, 10:23 PM   #29
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Actually, I have been in 2 and posted a hand full of times, maybe.

So, what would the cost of basic health care be for a 25 yr. old male living in Michigan? Please educate me on how affordable it is.
It costs me like $400/mo for really good coverage w/o any help from my employer (I'm contract). $10 copays , $10/20 prescription. Dental and Vision.

Single, almost 24, fairly healthy, but have enough doctors visits and prescriptions to make it worth it.

Probably a ripoff, and I will be shopping around for a better plan soon (or getting one through work) hopefully.
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Old May 11th, 2008, 10:38 AM   #30
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Actually, I have been in 2 and posted a hand full of times, maybe.

So, what would the cost of basic health care be for a 25 yr. old male living in Michigan? Please educate me on how affordable it is.
Young adult BCBSM

Eligibility: Individuals 18 to 30 years old
Monthly Rate: $47.14
Copay: 30 percent in-network
Deductible: $1,000
Out-of-Pocket Copay
Maximum: $2,500
Prescription: Discounts available through our Affinity Rx program
Dental: Personal Dental Optional
Network: PPO, Traditional

Schweeb you are getting ripped off. I paid a little over 400 for a family plan at blue cross
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Old May 11th, 2008, 10:52 AM   #31
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Young adult BCBSM

Eligibility: Individuals 18 to 30 years old
Monthly Rate: $47.14
Copay: 30 percent in-network
Deductible: $1,000
Out-of-Pocket Copay
Maximum: $2,500
Prescription: Discounts available through our Affinity Rx program
Dental: Personal Dental Optional
Network: PPO, Traditional

Schweeb you are getting ripped off. I paid a little over 400 for a family plan at blue cross
Who is that through? I'll take a look at quotes from them. I'm getting married soon, so I'll have to get a plan that will suit both of us.

If that's through your employer, part of the costs are probably subsidized...

I know mine's not THAT far off from what it should cost. Individual health insurance with all the coverage I've got (dental, vision, prescription, low copay, good deductibles) certainly isn't cheap.
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Old May 11th, 2008, 11:03 AM   #32
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http://www.bcbsm.com/myblue/plan_you...benefits.shtml

looks like physician visits aren't covered (does that mean you pay copay only, or you pay 100%?). Plus no prescription or dental coverage.
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Old May 11th, 2008, 06:52 PM   #33
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Depends on how often you plan on using it. Teh one I posted is basically for someone who doesnt - which should be perfect for someone who is healthy, doesnt have insurance now anyhow, and wants to have a safety net in case of of a broken arm or other medical emergency.

Thats correct theres no dental in that one. Are your teeth bad? If not a walk in cleaning with no insurance usually costs about $60-$80

Are your eyes bad? If not then you probably dont need vision.

If you plan on going to a doc for every hangnail, yes you will need a more expensive plan.

My family plan thru BCBSM which is the same benefits we had a kid on (cost $8000 at beaumont, we paid $800 out of pocket) cost about $400/month.
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Old May 11th, 2008, 07:39 PM   #34
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I don't go to the doctor's a lot but have a few prescriptions that aren't cheap. Prescription coverage is the most expensive part I'm guessing.
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Old May 14th, 2008, 07:24 AM   #35
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I think the bigger tragedy is when you try to use the healthcare you have now...and they don't pay....deny the claim...or make you jump through a million hoops to get a payment made. I wish we could go back to the late 70's and early 80's when the health care organization just paid the claims and there was no hassle.
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