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Old May 7th, 2008, 02:03 PM   #21
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When I go to vote for the president I'am taking a big marker and writting RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT on the ballot.
ROCK ON!!! That's the best thing I read so far!!!

The three leading candidates are all making plans on how to finish off this country during their term...

The bottom line... If you want insurance pay for it... If you don't the quit complaining about not having it provided to you for free... Nothing in life is free and we all learn that at a young age. Everyone pays for their own auto insurance, what's next having the govt provide that too??? Where did this entitlement mantality come from???

Me personally I pay for my own care because it's cheaper than paying the premiums. Surprisingly when your provider knows you're paying for it, it becomes much cheaper... surprise surprise!!!!!
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Old May 7th, 2008, 02:23 PM   #22
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ROCK ON!!! That's the best thing I read so far!!!

The three leading candidates are all making plans on how to finish off this country during their term...

The bottom line... If you want insurance pay for it... If you don't the quit complaining about not having it provided to you for free... Nothing in life is free and we all learn that at a young age. Everyone pays for their own auto insurance, what's next having the govt provide that too??? Where did this entitlement mantality come from???

Me personally I pay for my own care because it's cheaper than paying the premiums. Surprisingly when your provider knows you're paying for it, it becomes much cheaper... surprise surprise!!!!!
I pay for my insurance as well. I am also paying for things that I don't participate in, but as a community member I don't mind paying at all, and that's for some things I may NEVER participate in.

You see, I'm not saying that the government (which is all of us) should pay for health insurance for every American, I believe that we (the government) should do EXACTLY what you're doing for the BASIC CARE of all Americans, and that's pay the healthcare providers for the services they render, and because we are all paying for it, they must keep their costs within reason and if they don't they can't operate.

We can still provide "insurance" to anyone that wants it. It can provide all kinds of higher levels of care than the basic care that we would all be paying for (so we would pay for everyone's Geo Metro level of care, and you can buy Mercedes care if you want it).

You choose not to have insurance at all. That's a fine choice for you. That's not so practical for some people, who may have different health conditions or healthcare needs than you. It's a great thing that you have not become seriously ill, or catastrophically ill. I hope that your life continues that way for a long time, but the fact is that you will be hospitalized one day, sooner or later, for a serious illness or injury. I hope that you have plenty of money in the bank. When my wife was diagnosed with cancer even my insurance didn't cover the cost, and I couldn't pay for it with what I earned.

I'm curious though as to what you stand to lose if that happened to you without insurance. Do you own a home? You'll lose that. Are you trying to raise a family? You won't be able to afford that. Do you own a Jeep? Consider it gone. Think about it.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 02:31 PM   #23
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I pay for my insurance as well. I am also paying for things that I don't participate in, but as a community member I don't mind paying at all, and that's for some things I may NEVER participate in.
Key word community.

The federal govt has no business being in the business of providing healthcare. They're there to provide defense, etc... that glue the US together as a whole. Your local community (state, county, city) always has the option to tack on healthcare if it's deemed necessary by the needs driven by that community.

You feel fine giving, but that should be your choice. When you force people to pay for others, then you become a socialist.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 02:46 PM   #24
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Key word community.

The federal govt has no business being in the business of providing healthcare. They're there to provide defense, etc... that glue the US together as a whole. Your local community (state, county, city) always has the option to tack on healthcare if it's deemed necessary by the needs driven by that community.

You feel fine giving, but that should be your choice. When you force people to pay for others, then you become a socialist.
You're right. You're right. I have a great idea. Let's get rid of all government sponsered programs... Copied and pasted from another site thread:

"How to educate the right on why govt is good?

Not just the right, but those darn libertarians too, they are worse, almost.

What would be best, and now we are talking about the average middle to lower income person who is either staunch Republican or Libertarian,

is to eliminate all state and federal programs, including but not limited to

Medicare, Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, State Disability, School Lunches, GI Bill, Student Loans, Welfare and Food Stamps, SBA Loans, Head Start, Low Income Energy Assistance Program, Child & Adult Food Care Program, Federal Housing Assistance, State Childrens Health Insurance Program, Medicaid, Temporary Assistance For Needy Families, Child Protection/Foster Care and Adoption services, and more... AND every govt entity like FAA, FDA, etc., no more requirement of health insurance on the job, no more Work Comp, no more govt entities monitoring abuses of employees or production of unsafe products...

Secondly, reduce tax rates on the wealthy to next to nothing, which is their goal, turn all govt work to the public sector...

Then, watch as these very same and libertarians go nuts when they find out there isnt a single safety net to fall back on, now that they are working for $5 an hour with no benefits, which is what would happen if govt allowed corp to do whatever they wanted, period...it is so obvious and such a case of common sense, but some folks have to find out the hard way.

I say lets do it for a couple of years, then we wont have to listen to this crap anymore... "

I couldn't agree more Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 02:57 PM   #25
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You're right. You're right. I have a great idea. Let's get rid of all government sponsered programs... Copied and pasted from another site thread:

"How to educate the right on why govt is good?

Not just the right, but those darn libertarians too, they are worse, almost.

What would be best, and now we are talking about the average middle to lower income person who is either staunch Republican or Libertarian,

is to eliminate all state and federal programs, including but not limited to

Medicare, Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, State Disability, School Lunches, GI Bill, Student Loans, Welfare and Food Stamps, SBA Loans, Head Start, Low Income Energy Assistance Program, Child & Adult Food Care Program, Federal Housing Assistance, State Childrens Health Insurance Program, Medicaid, Temporary Assistance For Needy Families, Child Protection/Foster Care and Adoption services, and more... AND every govt entity like FAA, FDA, etc., no more requirement of health insurance on the job, no more Work Comp, no more govt entities monitoring abuses of employees or production of unsafe products...

Secondly, reduce tax rates on the wealthy to next to nothing, which is their goal, turn all govt work to the public sector...

Then, watch as these very same and libertarians go nuts when they find out there isnt a single safety net to fall back on, now that they are working for $5 an hour with no benefits, which is what would happen if govt allowed corp to do whatever they wanted, period...it is so obvious and such a case of common sense, but some folks have to find out the hard way.

I say lets do it for a couple of years, then we wont have to listen to this crap anymore... "

I couldn't agree more Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
Public safety (FAA, FDA, etc..) != public health coverage

And I would be perfectly fine with most of those programs disappearing. And there are state programs noted there... those programs are acceptable, as long as the voting public in that state are fine with it.

Do you honestly believe that on the job health insurance and all that other bullshit would disappear if the federal govt was trimmed down to more reasonable proportions?

Many of us aren't advocating tax cuts to the rich... I advocate tax cuts to everyone. I'm advocating people work in some way to fucking support themselves though, unless they're legitimately not able to.

"be careful what you wish for"... I say, let's do it... and bring it on. I'm ready... I've never relied on the government for anything, and don't intend to any time soon. I've been unemployed, and I did NOT collect unemployment.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 03:02 PM   #26
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Public safety (FAA, FDA, etc..) != public health coverage

And I would be perfectly fine with most of those programs disappearing. And there are state programs noted there... those programs are acceptable, as long as the voting public in that state are fine with it.

Do you honestly believe that on the job health insurance and all that other bullshit would disappear if the federal govt was trimmed down to more reasonable proportions?

Many of us aren't advocating tax cuts to the rich... I advocate tax cuts to everyone. I'm advocating people work in some way to fucking support themselves though, unless they're legitimately not able to.

"be careful what you wish for"... I say, let's do it... and bring it on. I'm ready... I've never relied on the government for anything, and don't intend to any time soon. I've been unemployed, and I did NOT collect unemployment.
So, just for clarification, are you said that you "never relied on the government for anything, and don't intend to any time soon."? You sure you don't want to recant your position?
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Old May 7th, 2008, 03:03 PM   #27
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I find it amazing how the same people who are advocating that the government is controlling too much of our lives (Patriot Act, etc..) and stepping on our liberties, are the same people who advocate MORE government programs. The history of abuses of just about any federal plan alone should be enough to convince you that smaller federal government is the way to go.

DISCLAIMER: although I mention the Patriot Act, I am no supporter of it. If you plan to use my statement against me for that, realize that you're a moron for doing so. It's just an example
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Old May 7th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #28
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I find it amazing how the same people who are advocating that the government is controlling too much of our lives (Patriot Act, etc..) and stepping on our liberties, are the same people who advocate MORE government programs. The history of abuses of just about any federal plan alone should be enough to convince you that smaller federal government is the way to go.

DISCLAIMER: although I mention the Patriot Act, I am no supporter of it. If you plan to use my statement against me for that, realize that you're a moron for doing so. It's just an example
I've been known to do many a moronic thing, but I won't do that. I'm still waiting for oyu to answer the question. Do you still stand by your earlier statement that you "never relied on the government for anything, and don't intend to any time soon."?
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Old May 7th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #29
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So, just for clarification, are you said that you "never relied on the government for anything, and don't intend to any time soon."? You sure you don't want to recant your position?
You understand the meaning behind what I said, so stop playing idiot (although nothing you've said proves you aren't an idiot).

Come up with a real argument. Perhaps you can sensationalize further, and come up with some more fuzzy logic statistics to prove your point.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 03:25 PM   #30
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You understand the meaning behind what I said, so stop playing idiot (although nothing you've said proves you aren't an idiot).

Come up with a real argument. Perhaps you can sensationalize further, and come up with some more fuzzy logic statistics to prove your point.
Sorry bro, I can't read minds. I only know what you said. You can try to insult me all you wish, it doesn't change the fact that you rely on "the government" every day of your life, and unless you leave the country you always will. Even if you go out in to the complete wilderness and live off the land, that land is there for you to go to because "the government" has protected and preserved it.

I'm not trying to fight with you or prove you wrong or anything like that. I'm just trying to say that it is highly unlikely that you will find even a small group of people that agree on exaclty which functions should remain and to what extent, so we have to try to find some metric by which to measure "the government" to determine what is worth preserving and what is not. I have a few suggestions, but would love to hear some others:

1. As long as the benefit is proportional to the cost.
2. That it prevents "likely" injury (not this frivolous bullshit, from hot coffee lawsuits to ridiculous speeding tickets on open highways with no cross traffic when you're only doing 10 over).
3. That it protects the well being of our children, and their children, etc.

I could go on, but I'd like to hear your ideas.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 03:36 PM   #31
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Sorry bro, I can't read minds. I only know what you said. You can try to insult me all you wish, it doesn't change the fact that you rely on "the government" every day of your life, and unless you leave the country you always will. Even if you go out in to the complete wilderness and live off the land, that land is there for you to go to because "the government" has protected and preserved it.
Within the context that it was presented, you should have understood the meaning. Go back and look. The sentence after it should explain everything you need.

In case you don't understand context, here you go:

Quote:
con·text Pronunciation[kon-tekst]
–noun
1. the parts of a written or spoken statement that precede or follow a specific word or passage, usually influencing its meaning or effect: You have misinterpreted my remark because you took it out of context.
2. the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.
3. Mycology. the fleshy fibrous body of the pileus in mushrooms.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 04:02 PM   #32
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Within the context that it was presented, you should have understood the meaning. Go back and look. The sentence after it should explain everything you need.

In case you don't understand context, here you go:
I beg your pardon, I never TOUCHED your fleshy, fibrous pileus with the mushroom head.

Seriously though, why all the anger? I posed an interesting question above and was hoping you might add your thoughts.

As soon as you're done trying to insult me I would love to hear your thoughts.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 05:04 PM   #33
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You know, I actually OWN one of those hats! I LOVE that hat!

Your points are welcomed, and I hope you will add them.

Honestly dude, I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong here as much as I am trying to express my views and support them. If you can shoot them down I will publically change my position and flood you with questions so that I can learn from you.
Your posted usually violate my length requirements because they're so long, therefore I don't read them and automatically assume bullshit.
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Old May 7th, 2008, 05:19 PM   #34
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Well, since you asked:

1. I type fast, just like I think.
2. I read fast, so my posts would only take me seconds to read through.
3. I accomplish a great deal everyday and am paid an excellent professional salary for my accomplishments. I am very good at my chosen career, have an outstanding resume, never have a problem finding high paying work, and am currently an Assistant Vice President at a very large multinational corporation.

How about you?
1. I also type fast but have grown up a little in the past few years and actually take a second or two to think about what I'm going to say. Some day you'll understand that how must sense thinking before you speak/type actually makes.
2. Yes, it only takes a few seconds to read your post . . . but makes my head dizzy from the giberish.
3. I also accomplish a great deal everyday and am paid an excellent professional salary. My company is only in the states but we are growing because we tend to find something to do instead of constinatly arguing with people on the internet in our free time. Please don't think that we are all high and mighty because yes, we do occasionly surf the web while working.

Drew

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Old May 7th, 2008, 08:41 PM   #35
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I beg your pardon, I never TOUCHED your fleshy, fibrous pileus with the mushroom head.

Seriously though, why all the anger? I posed an interesting question above and was hoping you might add your thoughts.

As soon as you're done trying to insult me I would love to hear your thoughts.
I was under the impression that you were gone for good, so I'm understandably upset :stan3:
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Old May 7th, 2008, 09:30 PM   #36
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You do realize that Health Insurance companies employ at least a half million Americans?!
Thank you for pointing out the problem with our health care system. While I do not particularly want to see a half a million people out of work I also don't think I should have to help support a half a million people just to be able to go see a doctor. What do all those people do that enhances my medical care?
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Old May 7th, 2008, 09:38 PM   #37
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Thank you for pointing out the problem with our health care system. While I do not particularly want to see a half a million people out of work I also don't think I should have to help support a half a million people just to be able to go see a doctor. What do all those people do that enhances my medical care?
Most of these people are employed due to health regulations. A majority have jobs that were created through regulations to keep companies compliant. Honestly, it is a byproduct of our legal system. Frivolous lawsuits are what is really driving up your healthcare costs!
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Old May 7th, 2008, 10:23 PM   #38
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Most of these people are employed due to health regulations. A majority have jobs that were created through regulations to keep companies compliant. Honestly, it is a byproduct of our legal system. Frivolous lawsuits are what is really driving up your healthcare costs!
Should have figured that the government was responsible. Thats why I really don't want the government to take over the health care system in this country. Whens the last time the federal government took over anything and made it better?

One thing I hate about our "insurance" based health care system is that health insurance, like all insurance, is basically a lottery ticket that only pays off if something bad happens. Healthy people get little from the system, it's the unhealthy that benefit.
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Old May 8th, 2008, 02:08 AM   #39
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Should have figured that the government was responsible. Thats why I really don't want the government to take over the health care system in this country. Whens the last time the federal government took over anything and made it better?

One thing I hate about our "insurance" based health care system is that health insurance, like all insurance, is basically a lottery ticket that only pays off if something bad happens. Healthy people get little from the system, it's the unhealthy that benefit.
Which is the beautiful thing about the new consumer driven health plans that are emerging in the markets right now. These plans are designed to be very inexpensive, but have high deductibles. This help to move more of the expenses to those who are driving most of the cost (those with chronic conditions like obesity, diabetes, etc)

Its funny though because even though these plans are a move in the right direction in lowering insurance premiums, many liberals are against them because they "discriminate". The fat person that never works out, eats like shit, and then has a major health issue is going to have to pay more and the liberals don't like that... for whatever crazy reason. Alot of these plans are getting all kinds of flak right now from politicians, but employer groups are buying them up because of the cost savings and good coverage!

We know from years of claims information that 20% of people cause 80% or more of healthcare costs. Think about that and ask yourself if its fair that the other 80% of people are paying for that?

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Old May 8th, 2008, 02:50 AM   #40
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You're right. You're right. I have a great idea. Let's get rid of all government sponsered programs... Copied and pasted from another site thread:

"How to educate the right on why govt is good?

Not just the right, but those darn libertarians too, they are worse, almost.

What would be best, and now we are talking about the average middle to lower income person who is either staunch Republican or Libertarian,

is to eliminate all state and federal programs, including but not limited to

Medicare, Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, State Disability, School Lunches, GI Bill, Student Loans, Welfare and Food Stamps, SBA Loans, Head Start, Low Income Energy Assistance Program, Child & Adult Food Care Program, Federal Housing Assistance, State Childrens Health Insurance Program, Medicaid, Temporary Assistance For Needy Families, Child Protection/Foster Care and Adoption services, and more... AND every govt entity like FAA, FDA, etc., no more requirement of health insurance on the job, no more Work Comp, no more govt entities monitoring abuses of employees or production of unsafe products...

Secondly, reduce tax rates on the wealthy to next to nothing, which is their goal, turn all govt work to the public sector...

Then, watch as these very same and libertarians go nuts when they find out there isnt a single safety net to fall back on, now that they are working for $5 an hour with no benefits, which is what would happen if govt allowed corp to do whatever they wanted, period...it is so obvious and such a case of common sense, but some folks have to find out the hard way.

I say lets do it for a couple of years, then we wont have to listen to this crap anymore... "

I couldn't agree more Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
i love how when you question government intervention it's immediately a vast extreme that would never happen. Just because we don't want the government in our healthcare doesn't mean we don't want the government delivering our mail. I am a libertarian and that simply means i strive for liberty in my life. Freedom of choice and freedom to do what i want within reason. When the government is allowed to make choices for you healthcare, your pretty much shit out of luck.

You name one thing the government has ever run properly and i will send you a box of coookies

Lets go over failurs of government intervnetion that have fucked us to this day:

FEDERAL RESERVE: created in 1913 to help off set panics- 1929 stock market crash. To this day the government still uses the fed to print money without reason. The FED answers to NO ONE BUT IT SELF.

INCOME TAX: Passed as the 16th amendment without a 2/3rd's vote of the states, allowing the government to illegally dip their hand into pay checks penalizing hard working americans without any say.

SOCIAL SECURITY: FDR creates this program to allow older americans to have funds and engage in socialed retirement. 1963, LBJ uses money set aside in social security to pay for the least favored american war, Vietnam. Originally intended for 16 people to work for 1 retiree, the system is so broke that 2 people are working to support one.

COMING SOON: socialized medicine.


Positive instalations of government:

uhh the postal service
interstate act of 1956
war with iraq? nope umm
Stimulus package....?
regulations on food.

hmmmm yea, these seem a little less important then the big screw ups. Come on, we aren't screaming anarchy just how much intervention of government do you really want in your life until they are wiping your ass and telling you what you can watch or what you think.
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