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Old May 5th, 2008, 08:10 AM   #121
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Do you see this guy here .....? That's YOU, dancing around the question. IF you're little book is correct, and IF jesus was a jew, and IF jesus is god, and IF we were all created by god, and IF we were all created in gods image, THEN WE ARE ALL JEWS. If A = B and B = C, then A = C. Lord knows there's NO WAY the Romans would have wanted to any of us to deny jews...... I mean, they certainly weren't THREATENED by any jews, now were they? And lord knows your religion has NOTHING to do with Rome...... (ignore the pope behing the roman catholic curtain.... they are the wizard of Oz.....). And lord knows that even though the entire hierarchy of the roman catholic church is almost IDENTICAL to that of ancient Roman government, and that they live in decadent splendor while their disciples starve and pray not to be burned in a pit for eternity, and BEG for forgivenes.... Whew! I could ON AND ON..... But you get my point.
Umm, No. Just because the Son of God was jewish doesn't make God Jewish. Jesus was born into the Jewish Cutlure/Bloodline. We were created in the Likeness of God, But that was Way before Jewdism Even started. That's like saying my decendents were American because I was born in America. They were Scotish/Irish and moved to america. I'm American because I was born in this country. Jesus was a Jew because he was born into a Jewish Faimly. GOD IS NOT A JEW. I honestly couldn't tell if you were serious or not. I hope not.

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Tower of Babel would explain the other thing. The reason God destroyed the tower was because the people were worshiping themselves and Glorifing themselves. They had it in thier mind that they were Gods because they could build something that great. God put them in thier place. Simplly put. You can do that when you create the universe. But wait a minute..... I thought that he knew everything that we were thinking before we even thought it? If that's true, then that means he KNEW they were going to build it, and he let it happen, then blew it up..... Likbe Soddom and Gommohra.... Sounds like premeditated murder to me.
He knew it, But he let it happen because he gave those people free will. Granted, he did have to set them back in thier place. They broke a Law, They were punished. It's how every system (to my Knowledge) of justice works. You do something wrong, You get punished. The more severe the Crime, the Greater the punishment. "Thou shall not put any other Gods before me" A HUGE law that they broke. Therefore a HUGE punishment for disobeying. Sounds like Justice to me. Let's not Get into Pre-destination again.....

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No he's not.. I agree sicne he doesn't even exist. No he doesn't. "God" who? ......Huh? What?....... Ashamed of what? I am NOT ashamed! Irish, yes.... "Ashamed", only when I sober up. Are you drinking?
God does know what's best for you. Go Here and realize that Children never think that thier Parents know best intill after the fact. God's been around forever. Literally. He's seen everything, Makes me think that he might know what I should do. If you don't believe in God, then Fine. He still knows what's best for you.

Irish, Cool. I'm either Irish or Scotish. I never drink. Mostly because I have Responsibilities that require me to be sober most of the time. IE. I drive a School bus and Having a Hangover while Driving a School bus would suck (IMO) And the weekends I enjoy to much to drink away and forget what I did. Although, It is Relaxing to have a nice beer every once in a while.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 09:58 AM   #122
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there's one difference that I believe is key, and that is that I am looking IN, and you are looking OUT.
That is exactly right, and they are FUNDAMENTAL differences. I have learned to STOP looking within. The ultimate strength is the confession that I am not strong enough. Major paradox, but it is God's way.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 09:59 AM   #123
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Can we continue ANYWAY?
unfortunately not, I don't like wasting my time.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 10:09 AM   #124
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Umm, No. Just because the Son of God was jewish doesn't make God Jewish. Jesus was born into the Jewish Cutlure/Bloodline. We were created in the Likeness of God, But that was Way before Jewdism Even started. That's like saying my decendents were American because I was born in America. They were Scotish/Irish and moved to america. I'm American because I was born in this country. Jesus was a Jew because he was born into a Jewish Faimly. GOD IS NOT A JEW. I honestly couldn't tell if you were serious or not. I hope not. So now you are implying that jesus and god are two seperate beings? That god existed before jesus? That totally contradicts what you guys were saying earlier. If jesus IS god, and jesus is a jew, then god IS jesus who IS a jew.



He knew it, But he let it happen because he gave those people free will. Granted, he did have to set them back in thier place. They broke a Law, They were punished. It's how every system (to my Knowledge) of justice works. You do something wrong, You get punished. The more severe the Crime, the Greater the punishment. "Thou shall not put any other Gods before me" A HUGE law that they broke. Therefore a HUGE punishment for disobeying. Sounds like Justice to me. Let's not Get into Pre-destination again..... In our justice system that is called entrapment, and cases are dismissed and people walk because of it.



God does know what's best for you. Go Here and realize that Children never think that thier Parents know best intill after the fact. God's been around forever. Literally. He's seen everything, Makes me think that he might know what I should do. If you don't believe in God, then Fine. He still knows what's best for you.

Irish, Cool. I'm either Irish or Scotish. There's a HUGE difference dude.... That's like saying "I'm either tall or I'm short".... I never drink. Mostly because I have Responsibilities that require me to be sober most of the time. IE. I drive a School bus and Having a Hangover while Driving a School bus would suck (IMO) And the weekends I enjoy to much to drink away and forget what I did. See, this is a perfect example of religious weakness. I can drink enough to have a light buzz (AGoodBuzz) and still be in control of my life. I go to work every day and (until I was promoted to management) worked in some extremely dangerous situations (as in you would DIE if you screwed up). I don't get hangovers because I STOP drinking before I get that drunk.....Although, It is Relaxing to have a nice beer every once in a while.
...
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Old May 5th, 2008, 10:10 AM   #125
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That is exactly right, and they are FUNDAMENTAL differences. I have learned to STOP looking within. The ultimate strength is the confession that I am not strong enough. Major paradox, but it is God's way.
I'm sorry you have so little self confidence. I believe in you more than you do.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 10:11 AM   #126
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unfortunately not, I don't like wasting my time.
Then don't.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 10:18 AM   #127
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I'm sorry you have so little self confidence. I believe in you more than you do.
I just got a warm fuzzy.

I am confident enough in myself to trust someone beyond myself.

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Then don't.
ok.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 10:25 AM   #128
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I just got a warm fuzzy.

I am confident enough in myself to trust someone beyond myself.



ok.
You just did.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 12:24 PM   #129
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That is exactly right, and they are FUNDAMENTAL differences. I have learned to STOP looking within. The ultimate strength is the confession that I am not strong enough. Major paradox, but it is God's way.
that statement is so idiotic I think it just gave me cancer (we need a facepalm smiley)
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Old May 5th, 2008, 03:37 PM   #130
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that statement is so idiotic I think it just gave me cancer (we need a facepalm smiley)
Ok, lets hear why, be specific.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 04:34 PM   #131
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So now you are implying that jesus and god are two seperate beings? That god existed before jesus? That totally contradicts what you guys were saying earlier. If jesus IS god, and jesus is a jew, then god IS jesus who IS a jew.
Touche`. Kind of. Jesus Is God, But he is not God the Father or God the Spirit. This is were the trinity get's confusing. As a Human, He was Jewish. His Role was to become a Human, therefore, he fell into Human constraints. He had to be just like us. Of course, he did perform Miracles. But that was more God the Father working through him. As he (God the Father) does through his Apostles back then and even today. (believe it or not). When he died and was resurrected he no longer fell into those human Contraints and Sits at the right hand of the Father. Jesus was a guide (Least importantly) to how we as humans should treat each other, nature, so on so on.


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In our justice system that is called entrapment, and cases are dismissed and people walk because of it.
The only problem with that statement is in our System the Judge can't see the Choices we make before we make them. He didn't make them do it. He would rather had them worship him. God did not set them up. They made the choices to do it. God just knew what they were goign to do. He also knows when His son will come back, Are you going to claim Entrapment on him at the Judgement? Think he'll Listen?



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See, this is a perfect example of religious weakness. I can drink enough to have a light buzz (AGoodBuzz) and still be in control of my life. I go to work every day and (until I was promoted to management) worked in some extremely dangerous situations (as in you would DIE if you screwed up). I don't get hangovers because I STOP drinking before I get that drunk.....
I'm Glad you're proud of your drinking ability. It must be hard to practice up for that. :tonka: It's not a religous Weakness, I can drink. I do drink. Just not every night. There a Hundred and one ways to keep from getting a Hangover, I chose the Original....Don't drink. Contrary to popular Believe, Christians Can drink. Just not get hammered.

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There's a HUGE difference dude.... That's like saying "I'm either tall or I'm short"....
I know there's a Huge difference. I just could never get a straight answer from either of my parents or relatives. My last name is Keef. From O'Keefe. I'm guessing Scotish. I actually thought about changing it back to O'Keefe in honor of My relatives, but I couldn't get a Straight answer. I don't have the money to pay for a service to do the research. I por
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Old May 5th, 2008, 08:47 PM   #132
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Ok, lets hear why, be specific.
you saying that you have "learned to stop looking within" is the exact same as saying "I am too lazy to think for myself" People like you are the reason I hate orginized religion.

It is horifying to me that children are told that this stuff is true. If you are old enough to decide for yourself that you want to be christian, that is all fine and good. However, children will believe pretty much anything you tell them, so by forcing religion on them while they are young they "learn" to never think for themselves and just blindly follow. IMO one of the best things my parents ever did for me is to not take me to church until I was old enough to think about religion and decide for myself.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 09:25 PM   #133
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you saying that you have "learned to stop looking within" is the exact same as saying "I am too lazy to think for myself" People like you are the reason I hate orginized religion.

It is horifying to me that children are told that this stuff is true. If you are old enough to decide for yourself that you want to be christian, that is all fine and good. However, children will believe pretty much anything you tell them, so by forcing religion on them while they are young they "learn" to never think for themselves and just blindly follow. IMO one of the best things my parents ever did for me is to not take me to church until I was old enough to think about religion and decide for myself.
Wow, you're kind of like a Mini Mike sova. And I can tell you by expierence that Children won't believe just anything. I work for a public school, I'm a Bus driver. I see them everyday. I talk to them Everyday. Not only that, but I work at a Camp. Every summer.
And Dave is much like any other Christian, They actually do search out the truth. I am around people just like him (and me) on a Daily basis. I live near MSU, My friends are all students there. If anything, I'd say that they are the most truth seaking people around. They question things about their faith, they put them up agianst other faiths and even some leave their faith. Bottom LIne is that most are not Brainwashed. It's childish to think they are. If you were to actually talk to them and not just Assume. You'd Realize that.

We get it, You think that Orginized religion is stupid and pointless. What exactly does that bring to this Debate? I think the lack of a Relgion (in some ones life) is stupid, People know that. I don't Generally make fun of them for that, or talk as though I know everything and they are puny minded children. From your post, I deduct that is where you're coming from. Christian or Not ripping on people and Calling them Stupid Poopy Heads is not a Way to debate. It's not learning someting from the other person, It's anoyingly telling them you're opinion and then not listening to thiers. /Rant.

One question, When you finally were braught to Church (If you ever were) did you believe it? Are you a Believer? I wouldn't guess so.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 09:29 PM   #134
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That is exactly right, and they are FUNDAMENTAL differences. I have learned to STOP looking within. The ultimate strength is the confession that I am not strong enough. Major paradox, but it is God's way.
Thank you Dave. I agree. (big surprise right?)

BTW, I'm alittle Parenthesis Happy tonight. Sorry guys.
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Old May 5th, 2008, 09:47 PM   #135
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Wow, you're kind of like a Mini Mike sova. And I can tell you by expierence that Children won't believe just anything. I work for a public school, I'm a Bus driver. I see them everyday. I talk to them Everyday. Not only that, but I work at a Camp. Every summer.
And Dave is much like any other Christian, They actually do search out the truth. I am around people just like him (and me) on a Daily basis. I live near MSU, My friends are all students there. If anything, I'd say that they are the most truth seaking people around. They question things about their faith, they put them up agianst other faiths and even some leave their faith. Bottom LIne is that most are not Brainwashed. It's childish to think they are. If you were to actually talk to them and not just Assume. You'd Realize that.

We get it, You think that Orginized religion is stupid and pointless. What exactly does that bring to this Debate? I think the lack of a Relgion (in some ones life) is stupid, People know that. I don't Generally make fun of them for that, or talk as though I know everything and they are puny minded children. From your post, I deduct that is where you're coming from. Christian or Not ripping on people and Calling them Stupid Poopy Heads is not a Way to debate. It's not learning someting from the other person, It's anoyingly telling them you're opinion and then not listening to thiers. /Rant.

One question, When you finally were braught to Church (If you ever were) did you believe it? Are you a Believer? I wouldn't guess so.
I apologize if I came off as attacking, I am kinda tired so thinking is hard.

First off I am agnostic, I am not closed to the idea of religion I just haven't found one that makes sense.

Second, I don't have a problem with religous people unless they either push their faith on others, or do stupid/annoying things because of it (I actually had a friend that locked his keys in his car and then recruited a group of others to PRAY his doors open ).

Again, I am not trying to bash your faith, I just believe that people should be more open minded. FWIW I get just as annoyed with some athiests or any group that is locked into only one idea.


EDIT: To the mini mike sova thing, I live about 6 miles from mt. pleasant so there may be something in the water.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 08:44 AM   #136
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Touche`. Kind of. Jesus Is God, But he is not God the Father or God the Spirit. This is were the trinity get's confusing. As a Human, He was Jewish. His Role was to become a Human, therefore, he fell into Human constraints. He had to be just like us. Of course, he did perform Miracles. But that was more God the Father working through him. As he (God the Father) does through his Apostles back then and even today. (believe it or not). When he died and was resurrected he no longer fell into those human Contraints and Sits at the right hand of the Father. Jesus was a guide (Least importantly) to how we as humans should treat each other, nature, so on so on.
So you're telling me that an Absolute God, the Ultimate Being, who can create ANYTHING... finds it necessary to impregnate a virgin, in order to give birth to himself, in order to be sacrificed to himself, in order to sit beside himself, in order to save the world...from himself?



The only problem with that statement is in our System the Judge can't see the Choices we make before we make them. He didn't make them do it. He would rather had them worship him. God did not set them up. They made the choices to do it. God just knew what they were goign to do. That's worse though.... Not only that, but it sure is a silly waste of everyone's time. How lame is it to make people go through an excercise where you know the exact outcome, then actually try to say that they had freewill? That's worse than entrapment. He also knows when His son will come back, Are you going to claim Entrapment on him at the Judgement? Think he'll Listen? Honestly I still probably won't care, because if I am facing the situation with comparable capacity to reason, then I will probably tell him that I was wrong, that he actually does exist, whoop-de-dee, and to go pound sand because I think this whole excercise was a huge, childish waste of time... and this is not an angry rant.





I'm Glad you're proud of your drinking ability. I'm not proud of my "drinking ability", I'm proud of my ability to think for and control myself. It must be hard to practice up for that. :tonka: It's not a religous Weakness, I can drink. I do drink. Just not every night. There a Hundred and one ways to keep from getting a Hangover, I chose the Original....Don't drink. Contrary to popular Believe, Christians Can drink. Just not get hammered.



I know there's a Huge difference. I just could never get a straight answer from either of my parents or relatives. My last name is Keef. From O'Keefe. I'm guessing Scotish. I actually thought about changing it back to O'Keefe in honor of My relatives, but I couldn't get a Straight answer. I don't have the money to pay for a service to do the research. I por
.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 10:39 AM   #137
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I'm alittle Parenthesis Happy tonight. Sorry guys.
(I know what you mean) ( )
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Old May 6th, 2008, 10:45 AM   #138
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you saying that you have "learned to stop looking within" is the exact same as saying "I am too lazy to think for myself" People like you are the reason I hate orginized religion.

It is horifying to me that children are told that this stuff is true. If you are old enough to decide for yourself that you want to be christian, that is all fine and good. However, children will believe pretty much anything you tell them, so by forcing religion on them while they are young they "learn" to never think for themselves and just blindly follow. IMO one of the best things my parents ever did for me is to not take me to church until I was old enough to think about religion and decide for myself.
If you have read my posts and find me lazy, then surely you are the idiot here. I hope you can receive the word as quickly as you give it.

Ok, so of all things to be horrified by, it is that I teach my daughter about the love of Jesus Christ? Go get horrified by something that is actually horrible. Go hate on something EVIL.

Let me address the blind faith issue. I have difficulty trusting God, believe me that it is not a mindless attempt at life. I have been following Jesus for 11 years now. It is only in recent times that I have come to acknowledge my weakness, it is only recently that I have been able to understand the need to trust God over my circumstances, to trust God over my own desires. I was not brainwashed into trusting God, God brought me to a place where he taught me to trust him. I understand this may be difficult for you to bite into, but that is how it happened, and I can guarantee that anyone else who puts their life in God's hands has come along a similar journey of faith as I have just described.

I left the church as a kid too, but the problem was that I confused the church with God. God is not always well represented by his people. It was though a later re-introduction to God, by a friend of mine, that I finally understood and accepted him as the Lord of my life, the one who forgives my sins and makes me new. I can't imagine what my life would be like now without Christ.
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Old May 6th, 2008, 05:26 PM   #139
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I apologize if I came off as attacking, I am kinda tired so thinking is hard.

First off I am agnostic, I am not closed to the idea of religion I just haven't found one that makes sense.

Second, I don't have a problem with religous people unless they either push their faith on others, or do stupid/annoying things because of it (I actually had a friend that locked his keys in his car and then recruited a group of others to PRAY his doors open ).

Again, I am not trying to bash your faith, I just believe that people should be more open minded. FWIW I get just as annoyed with some athiests or any group that is locked into only one idea.


EDIT: To the mini mike sova thing, I live about 6 miles from mt. pleasant so there may be something in the water.
Ok, I get that way too....IE. My last post. About the guy praying over his car....It could happen. I'd rather use the mind God Gave me to try and figure out a way to get in there. There are some people that are more "zealous" then others. That's thier way of worshiping. BTW, Coat I've never gotten a Coat hanger to actually work. Sucks.

Quote:
AGoodbuzz said something in a Quote here:

Honestly I still probably won't care, because if I am facing the situation with comparable capacity to reason, then I will probably tell him that I was wrong, that he actually does exist, whoop-de-dee, and to go pound sand because I think this whole excercise was a huge, childish waste of time... and this is not an angry rant.
We'll see what you'll do when you meet him. :tonka: Literally, Everyone will be there.


Oh crap, we're back to Predestination/ trying to rap our head around a Creator again.
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Old May 16th, 2008, 06:16 PM   #140
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my god spoke to me one time and told me if i dont buy my rig more parts it will break down in the woods
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