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Old May 1st, 2008, 04:57 PM   #101
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You know just about 4 weeks ago I was traveling and lost my wallet. Not that big a deal but it had all my info and passport with it. So I tried the lets make a deal with god game. Well just before I told the rest of my party to go on with out me, I asked one more person, said something in Spanish to another lady a bit away, and she in turn asked some people something, and this older man comes over and hands me my wallet. Great lets go I think and really don't think about the god deal. So on the plane a man comes back from first class and stop right next to me (the flight was full) and asks were I and going and all then asks if I would mind watching a video about his church mission, so I think ok, Well long story short I spend the next week in the back country of Costa Rica working with this group instead of siting on a beach wasted.


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ha! that is awesome!!
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Old May 1st, 2008, 05:27 PM   #102
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ha! that is awesome!!
x2, I mean after seeing that Tourista movie I don't know if I would ever want to go on one of those vacations
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Old May 1st, 2008, 07:26 PM   #103
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One question I have always had is IF the jews/christians (like it or not all christians ARE jews) are correct why do some early cultures not know about them? according to the bible we all decend from two people who had direct contact with god, if this is true then logic tells me that EVERY person from EVERY culture would know about the christian god because that information would surely be passed on through each generation.

I am not necicarally claiming that god/jesus doesn't exist, I am just asking a question that has always confused me.
Why again all all Christians jews? I think that the Jewish faith would not appreciate that Radical (and Incorrect) Statement. You can be Christian and be a jew, You can be non-jewish and be a Christian, But becoming a Christian does not make you jewish. Then there is that difference between Jewish by faith, and Jewish by Bloodline. Please school me in the ways that all Christians are jews. I'm interested in what you have to say.

Tower of Babel would explain the other thing. The reason God destroyed the tower was because the people were worshiping themselves and Glorifing themselves. They had it in thier mind that they were Gods because they could build something that great. God put them in thier place. Simplly put. You can do that when you create the universe.

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The Tower of Babel and the aftermath: The tower was built NOT to worship god, god, being selfish and insecure and all, got pissed and blew it up and made every person there speak a diefferent language so they couldn't communicate with each other (very childish thing to do), HOWEVER, they all may have left speaking different languages, but they all had the SAME MEMORY of god and his actions, so they would have passed it down, rrrriiiight.....?
He wasn't being childish, he was being just. He Set laws for the people to follow and they disobeyed them. If some one stole your truck would you want them to go to Jail? Heck yes. Would it matter if Jail was Painful or makes you feel bad for the person. NO. It's simple stuff we learned as kids. Don't do this, and you won't be Punished. Do this, and be punished. Doesn't seem childish to me. What would Judge Joe Brown think of that? :tonka:

Once again, He's the creator of the universe. He can set laws. It's not beceause he's scared of us. It's because he knows what's best for us. And, If you were completely shot down by God would you want to talk about it? Would you want to remember your shame? (yeah, I know, it sounds corny). I know I wouldn't. Espescially in a society were "being Strong" would mean life or death I'm sure they wouldn't like to mention that and show weekness to your enimies. Just a though.

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Old May 1st, 2008, 08:29 PM   #104
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I was proselytized today! haha. I had just run to the store to get some ice cream for my Mom's Birthday. I pulled in the driveway behind a car that I didn't recognize and a couple old guys got out. I got out of my car and looked at the guys and said hello. They asked me what that was on top of my car Then he handed me one of those papers and asked me if I went to any church. I smiled and said no, I wasn't interested. Then he asked me if I died tonight, would I go to heaven. I told him probably not, because I'm an atheist. Then he said, Oh...that's too bad. I told him that I was ok with it, and told them to have a goodnight. I then went inside and had some ice cream.

Looking back, I should have engaged him in a conversation...but I wanted to eat ice cream...meh, maybe next time.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 09:30 PM   #105
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Looking back, I should have engaged him in a conversation...but I wanted to eat ice cream...meh, maybe next time.
I bet if God was icecream you'd be very loyal
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Old May 1st, 2008, 09:41 PM   #106
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One question I have always had is IF the jews/christians (like it or not all christians ARE jews) are correct why do some early cultures not know about them? according to the bible we all decend from two people who had direct contact with god, if this is true then logic tells me that EVERY person from EVERY culture would know about the christian god because that information would surely be passed on through each generation.

I am not necicarally claiming that god/jesus doesn't exist, I am just asking a question that has always confused me.
Let me give you a basic synopsis of the Old Testament: people follow God, forget about God and forsake him, trust instead in themselves, worship FALSE gods that they crafted with their own hands, then had wake up calls, then repented to start following the only true God again. Repeat this entire process, and you have the story of God and mankind. The point is this: it seems that all people everywhere would know about and follow God, but what you are not taking into consideration is the sin of man, our sin separates us from God and we go our OWN way, and forsake God. When we forget about God, we do not pass him on to our children. I know many people in these circumstances presently.

HTH
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Old May 1st, 2008, 09:43 PM   #107
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I was proselytized today! haha. I had just run to the store to get some ice cream for my Mom's Birthday. I pulled in the driveway behind a car that I didn't recognize and a couple old guys got out. I got out of my car and looked at the guys and said hello. They asked me what that was on top of my car Then he handed me one of those papers and asked me if I went to any church. I smiled and said no, I wasn't interested. Then he asked me if I died tonight, would I go to heaven. I told him probably not, because I'm an atheist. Then he said, Oh...that's too bad. I told him that I was ok with it, and told them to have a goodnight. I then went inside and had some ice cream.

Looking back, I should have engaged him in a conversation...but I wanted to eat ice cream...meh, maybe next time.
I wish they would have throw a Bible at you and talked about the hot hell fires. That would have better represented most attempts at proselytization. Oh, next time right?

I can't help myself when Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door, I always talk to them.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 09:47 PM   #108
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Dave, I have responded specifically and directly to all of your questions. If you feel that I have been dancing around them or whatever then maybe you are having some difficulty with how I communicate. If that is the case, I'm not sure how to give you what you need. I asked several people to read my responses to you and they all agreed (one of them a christian with whom I regularly debate) that I was pretty clear, so do with that what you will. Please feel free to post all the questions you want to ask of me, and I will continue to answer them as directly and simply as I can for you; but I'm not going to try to answer the same question again and again just because you don't understand the answer.

how about verification of the 'events' in other historical texts that are NOT christian. Maybe some other physical evidence, such as archaeological findings that show the human form being the same and unchanged going all the way back to when your god supposedly made all this, then nothing at all before that. I could go on and on

There may be TONS of other evidence about this guy, including his REMAINS
This time, you have indeed, and I thank you for your thorough responce.

I stole this from someone, tell me what you think: "One of the common tactics used to deny the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ is to say that “since none of us were there, no one can really say what happened 2000 years ago”. While there is some truth to that statement, it is an illogical argument against something having been documented in history. Here’s why. None of us were also around when George Washington was President, so technically, we can’t “prove” he was President, however, if there is enough historical documentation attesting to his Presidency and corroborated historically by enough eyewitnesses, combined with absolutely no documented claims denying these facts, logic demands we accept his Presidency as historically true. To deny this would be illogical and unscientific."

Those qualifications mentioned are pretty reasonable, but I encourage you not to throw out the historicaly baby with its bathwater. There are plenty of non-biblical recordings of Jesus, saying that many followed him, that he was acclaimed to have done this and that, etc. The non-believing historians wrote down the fact that some major buzz was following this dude. Keep one VERY important detail in mind, there is not ONE SINGLE item of histocial evidence that supports any other conclusion except that Jesus actually rose from the dead. Again, there is no altering story recorded in history that give any other story as to what happened to him. Why do you suppose that is? Would you imagine that if something different happened, that the actual scenario would have been documented thoroughly to save many people's butts?

Right, it is likely that his remains do exist. But the interesting part about the story of Christ is that NO SUCH REMAINS EXIST. It would have been in the favor of all who opposed him to find his body, and destroy his claims by showing off his still-dead-body. In other words, the fact that the governing authorities could not produce the dead body of Christ indicates that (hold your breath).. ... he may actually have risen from the dead. Hard to believe, yes, but it is a logical conclusion.

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Old May 1st, 2008, 09:48 PM   #109
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hmmm... so I should believe that a zombie who is his own father and advocates canibalism (albeit symbolic) is going to save me from eternal damnation, because of what an old book tells me.

just checking.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 11:14 PM   #110
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One question I have always had is IF the jews/christians (like it or not all christians ARE jews)
By that same reasoning you'd have to say that all Muslims are Christians and Jews.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 11:41 PM   #111
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By that same reasoning you'd have to say that all Muslims are Christians and Jews.
Christians are a sect of jews that believe that Jesus was the son of god :chiefwoohaw::chiefwoohaw::chiefwoohaw: They started as one faith and have branched off because of some disagreements.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 11:59 PM   #112
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Christians are a sect of jews that believe that Jesus was the son of god :chiefwoohaw::chiefwoohaw::chiefwoohaw: They started as one faith and have branched off because of some disagreements.
Yes, the original Christians were Jews that "branched off because of some disagreements", namely, whether Jesus was the son of God or just some dude that could preform some neat tricks.

And Muslims are followers of Mohammad, who believed that God did speak to him and gave him more information that built upon the teachings of Jesus and Moses and all those other old long dead dudes. Mohammad felt that his teachings were the extension of, not the replacement of Christian and Jewish teachings.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 08:25 AM   #113
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Christians are a sect of jews that believe that Jesus was the son of god :chiefwoohaw::chiefwoohaw::chiefwoohaw: They started as one faith and have branched off because of some disagreements.
Please allow me to correct you. The FIRST followers of Christ were Jews, because he was born into Jewish society. But after many of Jesus' own received him not, those who were carrying the message of Christ then went to non-Jews (Gentiles). The message hit like wildfire among the Gentiles, and many became followers of Christ. So in actuality, it was a mixed bunch of faith communities from the very beginning.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 09:09 AM   #114
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Christians are a sect of jews that believe that Jesus was the son of god :chiefwoohaw::chiefwoohaw::chiefwoohaw: They started as one faith and have branched off because of some disagreements.

What dave said. I'm not jewish. I would be considered a Gentile. Jesus Came to free the jews (and everybody else) of the OT law. That's why the preists and Pharises wanted to kill him. He was "Blaspheming". The also didn't like that he took the Control out of thier hands and gave it back to the People.Many of the jews of that time were looking for a Savior and were decieved into thinking it wasn't Jesus. Mostly because the Priests expected a Military Leader and instead Got What Jesus was. They were disapointed.

I could see how that connection could be made though. Honestly. Christianity was born out of Jewdism. Simple as that. The only problem is that Jesus effectively said that the old law is no longer valid and he came to set a new one. That would not put you into a different sect, but a completely different religion.

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Old May 4th, 2008, 09:31 PM   #115
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I would love for my dad to be in on this Debate. But he has no reason to be on this site. He's not a truck guy. He wouldn't really get it. Usually tells me I'm wasting my time on here. I agree with him to an Extent.

So, you look at Meditation differently then I do. Ok. It's not really any different then any other subject. Something I'm finding out in alot of things. And we do call it Meditation. Prayer could be envolved. It doesn't have to be. My quiet time consists of many things.
I see your point and it's a good one, but there's one difference that I believe is key, and that is that I am looking IN, and you are looking OUT.
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Old May 4th, 2008, 09:38 PM   #116
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No, not the book or Romans, all though the Roman's road in the book for Romans might be a good read for you. I'm talking about History books from that period of time. I'm also a little suprised that you believe Pontius Pilate existed since he's mentioned in what you believe is the "mythical bible" which makes me believe that you actually believe some of the bible. Good job! And you are CORRECT!!! I DO believe SOME of the bible, because some of it is based on FACT! I NEVER called the bible (or as I like to call it, "You're Little Book") a complete fabrication, and I don't believe that I've inferred it within the realms of any reasonable line of thinking. Pontius Pilate is mentioned in many places in history........

What about the mentions in History of the darkness when Jesus was crusifed and the soilders acounts of the tomb. That is History written in other books besides the Bible. Which ones?

Rome does not like enemies Who does?and that wasn't the first time when they attacked religion, i.e. when Mary slipped away to Egypt with Jesus after his birth. And the Christian Lion Battles in Rome. I know you're trying to make a point here, and I know know what it is, but I'm going to play even dumber than I am and make you say it outright...... Go ahead. Say it.
....
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Old May 4th, 2008, 09:40 PM   #117
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pssst. it gets better.

Dude.... That is FKUCING HILARIOIUS!!!! OMFG!!!!! I think I wet myself.
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Old May 4th, 2008, 09:43 PM   #118
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First off, you can't over simply the Bible and just call it some little book, you make yourself look like an idiot or does it make you FEEEEEEEL like an idiot.....? Come on.... Tell us how you really feel....., seriously, stop it. No..... That is eriously how I feel about it.If you knew anything about the history of the Bible I don't. Nothing. Zero. Zilch., you would not call it some little book Oh. BUt I DO!. If you can accept this, let us continue. Can we continue ANYWAY?

HOW I know he raised from the dead is the perfect question to ask. I have come to the conclusion based on two things: One, the evidence at hand. Two, logical reasoning.

God didn't "need" a body, instead, he chose to become flesh. If you needed to communicate with an ant and standing over it and talking didn't end up being effective, if you BECAME an ant, surely things would work more in your favor. God chose to become flesh and dwell among us, it was his method. It has been accounted that Jesus physically rose from the dead, and that he physically ascended into heaven (diappeared into the sky). That is the testimony, but you can't say it could not happen, because God tends to do things supernaturally if you did not notice. Okay...... That was great. Reallly. But I'm still waiting for that "evidence" you mentioned above..... After that I would LOVE to hear the "logical reasoning"..... Pleas. Share!
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Old May 4th, 2008, 10:01 PM   #119
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Okay.... Here we go.....Why again all all Christians jews? I think that the Jewish faith would not appreciate that Radical (and Incorrect) Statement. You can be Christian and be a jew, You can be non-jewish and be a Christian, But becoming a Christian does not make you jewish. Then there is that difference between Jewish by faith, and Jewish by Bloodline. Please school me in the ways that all Christians are jews. I'm interested in what you have to say. Do you see this guy here .....? That's YOU, dancing around the question. IF you're little book is correct, and IF jesus was a jew, and IF jesus is god, and IF we were all created by god, and IF we were all created in gods image, THEN WE ARE ALL JEWS. If A = B and B = C, then A = C. Lord knows there's NO WAY the Romans would have wanted to any of us to deny jews...... I mean, they certainly weren't THREATENED by any jews, now were they? And lord knows your religion has NOTHING to do with Rome...... (ignore the pope behing the roman catholic curtain.... they are the wizard of Oz.....). And lord knows that even though the entire hierarchy of the roman catholic church is almost IDENTICAL to that of ancient Roman government, and that they live in decadent splendor while their disciples starve and pray not to be burned in a pit for eternity, and BEG for forgivenes.... Whew! I could ON AND ON..... But you get my point.

Tower of Babel would explain the other thing. The reason God destroyed the tower was because the people were worshiping themselves and Glorifing themselves. They had it in thier mind that they were Gods because they could build something that great. God put them in thier place. Simplly put. You can do that when you create the universe. But wait a minute..... I thought that he knew everything that we were thinking before we even thought it? If that's true, then that means he KNEW they were going to build it, and he let it happen, then blew it up..... Likbe Soddom and Gommohra.... Sounds like premeditated murder to me.



He wasn't being childish, he was being just. He Set laws for the people to follow and they disobeyed them. See above.If some one stole your truck would you want them to go to Jail? No. I would rather pound their FKUCING head in to the pavement.Heck yes. Would it matter if Jail was Painful or makes you feel bad for the person. NO. It's simple stuff we learned as kids. Don't do this, and you won't be Punished. Do this, and be punished. Doesn't seem childish to me. What would Judge Joe Brown think of that? Who the F is Joe Brown?:tonka:

Once again, He's the creator of the universe No he's not.. He can set laws No he can't. It's not beceause he's scared of usI agree sicne he doesn't even exist. It's because he knows what's best for us No he doesn't. And, If you were completely shot down by God would you want to talk about it? "God" who?Would you want to remember your shame? ......Huh? What?....... Ashamed of what? I am NOT ashamed! Irish, yes.... "Ashamed", only when I sober up.(yeah, I know, it sounds corny Are you drinking?). I know I wouldn't. Espescially in a society were "being Strong" would mean life or death I'm sure they wouldn't like to mention that and show weekness to your enimies. Just a though.
*deep sigh*

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Old May 4th, 2008, 10:21 PM   #120
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Let me give you a basic synopsis of the Old Testament: people follow God, forget about God and forsake him, trust instead in themselves, worship FALSE gods that they crafted with their own hands, then had wake up calls, then repented to start following the only true God again. Repeat this entire process, and you have the story of God and mankind. The point is this: it seems that all people everywhere would know about and follow God, but what you are not taking into consideration is the sin of man, our sin separates us from God and we go our OWN way, and forsake God. When we forget about God, we do not pass him on to our children. I know many people in these circumstances presently.

HTH
According to some Jewish friends of mine, you are the one worshipping the false god in the form of Jesus, and that the lie goes all the way back to the Roman Empire (which is now the Roman Catholic Church) that did not want you to follow the influential prophet named Jesus who was NOT the son of any god, but far more powerful in his influence to bring down Rome because, after all, if there is no one to rule (read: Exodus) then there is no kingdom....

According to the postulate, Rome had to get people back under their rule QUICK because their empire as they knew it was crumbling, and a great deal of it was directly related to the the teachings of and disciples of one man: Jesus of Nazareth.... The Jew. Who believed in and preached that there was only ONE god....

Interesting how the Holy Trinity believes in more than one.... Hmmmmm...... :tonka:

Anywho, this jewish dude, Jesus, had such an immense influence that even Marcus Aurelius wrote about him a couple of hundred years after Jesus died, and the shock wave that this Jesus dude triggered would be a huge catalyst in the eventual fall of Rome..... Yes, there were many other factors, but this Jesus dude..... Well, let's just say that he was almost godlike in his influence....

So Rome, with their insatiable need to rule, realized that everyone was really in to this Jesus dude, but they killed him and he was long gone, so now they were really screwed, so since they all had the ability to read and write and most of these people that followed Jesus didn't, they spread the rumor that there were enlightened individuals with sacred writings by this dudes disciples, and that anyone that wanted to share in this knowledge need only come 'round and hear the testimony.....

Interesting isn't it? That your god is supposed to be so loving and all, yet in the original texts he was about the equivalent of a Roman emporer in his might and brutality.......


So anyways, the intersting thing is that the jewish texts remain unchanged since day one, yet the catholic and christian texts keep getting changed over and over to suit the changing social landscape. I love to flip through those new "user friendly" bibles just to see how much the content has changed. They're almost written like books for lonely ugly kids with a drinking problem that just need a hug..... Hmmmm. Sort of like the average teenager these days....?

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