god speaks to you? - Page 5 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 30th, 2008, 02:56 PM   #81
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,881
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Yeah, And all those pastors that have preached on this very basic concept of Christian Theology no absoultly nothing. It would be easy for him to just speak. Then we coudl end this stupid debate because we would have auidble evidence. It delites God for us to seek him. If you want to make fun of that idea, Then stop debating on this subject because it's about Christian theology and believe it or not, Christians know more about thier theology then you do.
were you smoking crack when you typed this?
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old April 30th, 2008, 03:31 PM   #82
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,881
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Dave, be careful, I've heard quite a few people turn into atheists after they deeply studied their religion and looked at it critically, a couple well know examples:

Stephen Uhl-http://www.imaginenosuperstition.com/

Dan Barker-http://ffrf.org/books/lfif/
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 03:35 PM   #83
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,703
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
Dave, be careful
Thanks for the warning Mike, but everyone that I have personally spoke with who has investigated Jesus has never been scared off, if anything, drawn closer. The reason is that faith in Christ stands up strong to scrutiny. No worries here.
Dave Kerwin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 06:56 PM   #84
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 5,001
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
were you smoking crack when you typed this?
Nope, Just in a Hurry. I was reading and lost track of time. I was almost late for work. Luckily the nice folks at the bus garage aren't super strict on time.


Let's revisit this......

Quote:
Quote:
Maybe because I didn't have a prepossession to equate what I am hearing as god.....? Look, if he's that almighty powerful and wants to say something to me, I'm sure he/she/it would make themselves heard. "near-complete silence"..... Please
Yeah, And all those pastors that have preached on this very basic concept of Christian Theology know absoultly nothing. It would be easy for him to just speak. Then we coudl end this stupid debate because we would have auidble evidence. It delights God When we seek him. Deleted some, then added...
I was Honestly in a Hurry. Not that it matters. What I was trying to say is that God could use his Audible voice, and I think sometimes still does. Very Rarely. (all Exploding head jokes aside.) By reading the bible Christians are "spoken to" by God as far as his Character, Even his Purpose for our lifes. And I will agree with AGoodbuzz in saying that you have to be looking for that. It's not a Supernatural feeling or anything like that, (at least for me) it's more of an acknowledgement of 1.)the situation the author was in 2.) the message he was trying to portray 3.) how does that apply to my life. With that Simple thought process I've learned alot from God's word. No magical incantations, or big boomy voices, or exploding heads. Just simple Logical Deduction.

What I was trying to say about the quiet is that God wants time in our lifes for him. He wants us to put down everything and talk to him, read his word, Or just simply listen. It's hard to do. Our world is all about noise. Weather it's Audible, Visual, Emotional, what ever. It's noise. The most precious time I have is when I can turn of the Noise and Focus on my God. That's when I "hear him speak". And AGB, if you think that's just this stupid bus drivers opion, YOUR WRONG! It's A basic Theological Practice. It's one of the first things I learned to do, as Young Teenager, from my Dad. He's an ordained Methodist pastor. He knows his stuff about Theology.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 08:36 PM   #85
cannaert
No more Jeep
 
cannaert's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-24-06
Location: Hartland/Fenton
Posts: 3,549
iTrader: (73)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to cannaert
Default

After I found out I had a Brain tumor I have had fellings I can not explain. Fellings of ever thing will be Ok and you have no need to worry about it. I dont know who or what it was giving me that felling

Last edited by cannaert; April 30th, 2008 at 08:40 PM.
cannaert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 09:18 PM   #86
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,881
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cannaert View Post
After I found out I had a Brain tumor I have had fellings I can not explain. Fellings of ever thing will be Ok and you have no need to worry about it. I dont know who or what it was giving me that felling
Are you religious?
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 10:27 PM   #87
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
I don't care what conforms to my beliefs, I care what is TRUE, then I belief THAT. When did I ever say there is NO evidence for evolution? I never said that, I rarely talk about evolution. I think there is evidence, but not enough to believe it. But your one little book is enough to make you believe that this all happened by magic and that jesus rose from the dead and we'll all either go to heaven or burn in hell, yet the mountains of verifiable evidence that you can actually go hold in your hand right now is not enough to get you to even believe in the possibility??

When I have the time to spare I will go through your old posts and make sure that you have not spoken out against evolution, because I sure thought you were one of the (what I call) Gang of 4 that I've been arguing with on several different threads on these same subjects. If I don't find anything I'll certainly admit it. If I do find something, I'll post it. Stay tued on that point....


Guy, you think I am stupid? No.I know history exists outside the Bible, I never claimed that (note, this is the second thing in your post you claimed I believed, you actually ASSumed both). See above

You did not address ANYTHING that I wrote. Dude, all that typing on the last several posts were several different attempts to respond directly to you. I tried rewording and everything. Am I wrong? Does everyone else here feel that I have not responded to Dave DIRECTLY? Please let me know.I exploited your argument, you did not respond to what I said, you went in a different direction. See above.So let me bring you back. If you reject the historicity of the Bible, what SPECIFIC qualifications do you require that history have in order for it to be verifiable as true? Well let's see, first of all, that's not "bringing me back" because that wasn't the original question, but since we're moving to a new question (again), then how about verification of the 'events' in other historical texts that are NOT christian. Maybe some other physical evidence, such as archaeological findings that show the human form being the same and unchanged going all the way back to when your god supposedly made all this, then nothing at all before that. I could go on and on, but you don't appear to read anyting I say. You'll probably respond to this and say that I'm avoiding answering you again.Take this random dude for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_Sun-sin Do you think he actually existed? Based on what little 'evidence' you've provided I would say that I have no way of knowing either way yet, but so that we can pretend that you're leading me along here I will go along with it and say, "Yah, I guess so"....How do you know FOR SURE he died from a single bullet in battle? Based on the little bit of evidence you've provided, I DON'T.How can you possibly trust the witnesses that said that happened? I never said I did.After all, you were not there, so it must not have happened, right? Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, but let's play along and say "duhhhh, okay"There are no pictures of him laying on a battle field. True.There are no documented papers signed by a doctor verifying the cause of death... How do you know? so how could you possibly believe it happened? I never said I did.According to your logic, it did not happen, because it is just some old stuff that was written in a book that cannot be verified... right? Based on your very narrow minded reading of what I have been saying all along, YES, because that's all that you seem to have grasped from the concept of ASKING FOR MORE INFORMATION than what is handed to you. And that doesn't mean look up at the ceiling and say "god, is this true?" when you KNOW that you're going to get the acknowledgement you want because you already decided it was true before you looked up and asked. There may be TONS of other evidence about this guy, including his REMAINS....
Dave, I have responded specifically and directly to all of your questions. If you feel that I have been dancing around them or whatever then maybe you are having some difficulty with how I communicate. If that is the case, I'm not sure how to give you what you need. I asked several people to read my responses to you and they all agreed (one of them a christian with whom I regularly debate) that I was pretty clear, so do with that what you will. Please feel free to post all the questions you want to ask of me, and I will continue to answer them as directly and simply as I can for you; but I'm not going to try to answer the same question again and again just because you don't understand the answer.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 10:44 PM   #88
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
by prophets before him, yes. But what I am mainly referring to is what Jesus said about himself. That he would do certain things, but here is the clencher, HE BACKED IT ALL UP. The entire strength of Christ is in his resurrection from the dead. THAT is what separates him from all the spiritual talkers.
Backed up WHAT? According to WHAT? Your little book? Is that the best you can do? Please, enlighten us.

BTW, how do you know that he was resurrected from the dead...? Because his body was gone? Wait a minute, if he's god and he's spirit then what does he need a body for? Besides, your body doesn't go to heaven, so his body must still be around right?

Remeber, you can't take it with you.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 30th, 2008, 10:54 PM   #89
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Nope, Just in a Hurry. I was reading and lost track of time. I was almost late for work. Luckily the nice folks at the bus garage aren't super strict on time.


Let's revisit this......



I was Honestly in a Hurry. Not that it matters. What I was trying to say is that God could use his Audible voice, and I think sometimes still does. Very Rarely. (all Exploding head jokes aside.) By reading the bible Christians are "spoken to" by God as far as his Character, Even his Purpose for our lifes. And I will agree with AGoodbuzz in saying that you have to be looking for that. It's not a Supernatural feeling or anything like that, (at least for me) it's more of an acknowledgement of 1.)the situation the author was in 2.) the message he was trying to portray 3.) how does that apply to my life. With that Simple thought process I've learned alot from God's word. No magical incantations, or big boomy voices, or exploding heads. Just simple Logical Deduction.

What I was trying to say about the quiet is that God wants time in our lifes for him. He wants us to put down everything and talk to him, read his word, Or just simply listen. It's hard to do. Our world is all about noise. Weather it's Audible, Visual, Emotional, what ever. It's noise. The most precious time I have is when I can turn of the Noise and Focus on my God. That's when I "hear him speak". And AGB, if you think that's just this stupid bus drivers opion I don't think you're stupid. You articulate yourself well. I've understood everything you have said so far. I appreciate your clarifying what you meant about silence, and I would like to believe you did that because you believed it needed clarification., YOUR WRONG! It's A basic Theological Practice. It's one of the first things I learned to do, as Young Teenager, from my Dad. He's an ordained Methodist pastor. He knows his stuff about Theology. I believe he does. It would be interesting if he could be in this debate with us wouldn't it?
Those from 'the east' would agree with the importance of this 'silence', peace, quiet, etc. For them, as for me, it is a time for introspection. A time to let go and allow my mind and body to relax and flow on its own. If done effectively it can bring about an amazing sense of well-being and clarity of thought. It is a great way to work through times of trouble and meet them head-on and solve them. Many people call this meditation. You may call it prayer. For you, you look outside of yourself (to god) for the answer. For me, I look inside, to me, and I am at peace when I know that the answer feels right. I don't point to that and say "hey, that's god". I say, "hey, that's pretty cool. I have no explanation for why that works like that, but it does, and until I knnow for sure I will accept it as just another interesting thing I can't explain.", because going through life not knowing doesn't bother me a bit.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 12:41 AM   #90
no1likesme
not Frank Sinatra
 
no1likesme's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-10-08
Location: shepherd, MI
Posts: 678
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to no1likesme Send a message via MSN to no1likesme
Default

hmmm... so I should believe that a zombie who is his own father and advocates canibalism (albeit symbolic) is going to save me from eternal damnation, because of what an old book tells me.

just checking.
no1likesme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 01:51 AM   #91
JDRL
Big Member
 
Join Date: 05-22-07
Location: mi
Posts: 662
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

You know just about 4 weeks ago I was traveling and lost my wallet. Not that big a deal but it had all my info and passport with it. So I tried the lets make a deal with god game. Well just before I told the rest of my party to go on with out me, I asked one more person, said something in Spanish to another lady a bit away, and she in turn asked some people something, and this older man comes over and hands me my wallet. Great lets go I think and really don't think about the god deal. So on the plane a man comes back from first class and stop right next to me (the flight was full) and asks were I and going and all then asks if I would mind watching a video about his church mission, so I think ok, Well long story short I spend the next week in the back country of Costa Rica working with this group instead of siting on a beach wasted.


Jdrl
JDRL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 07:17 AM   #92
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,881
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no1likesme View Post
hmmm... so I should believe that a zombie who is his own father and advocates canibalism (albeit symbolic) is going to save me from eternal damnation, because of what an old book tells me.

just checking.
pssst. it gets better.

mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 09:27 AM   #93
L4CX
Out for the Summer!
 
L4CX's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-16-07
Location: Hillsdale, MI
Posts: 5,001
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
Those from 'the east' would agree with the importance of this 'silence', peace, quiet, etc. For them, as for me, it is a time for introspection. A time to let go and allow my mind and body to relax and flow on its own. If done effectively it can bring about an amazing sense of well-being and clarity of thought. It is a great way to work through times of trouble and meet them head-on and solve them. Many people call this meditation. You may call it prayer. For you, you look outside of yourself (to god) for the answer. For me, I look inside, to me, and I am at peace when I know that the answer feels right. I don't point to that and say "hey, that's god". I say, "hey, that's pretty cool. I have no explanation for why that works like that, but it does, and until I knnow for sure I will accept it as just another interesting thing I can't explain.", because going through life not knowing doesn't bother me a bit.

I would love for my dad to be in on this Debate. But he has no reason to be on this site. He's not a truck guy. He wouldn't really get it. Usually tells me I'm wasting my time on here. I agree with him to an Extent.

So, you look at Meditation differently then I do. Ok. It's not really any different then any other subject. Something I'm finding out in alot of things. And we do call it Meditation. Prayer could be envolved. It doesn't have to be. My quiet time consists of many things.
L4CX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 11:48 AM   #94
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,509
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

There are other HISTORY books that talk of Jesus. Look in Roman text where Pilate was scared and washed his hands and the accounts of the soilders at the tomb. But they were written by men of the same time period called historians and guess what they match The Bible. I know that won't be good enough but seeing another text with similar happenings as the Bible in the same time frame is jus another fact for me that leads to my believe in my everlasting God.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 12:30 PM   #95
no1likesme
not Frank Sinatra
 
no1likesme's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-10-08
Location: shepherd, MI
Posts: 678
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to no1likesme Send a message via MSN to no1likesme
Default

One question I have always had is IF the jews/christians (like it or not all christians ARE jews) are correct why do some early cultures not know about them? according to the bible we all decend from two people who had direct contact with god, if this is true then logic tells me that EVERY person from EVERY culture would know about the christian god because that information would surely be passed on through each generation.

I am not necicarally claiming that god/jesus doesn't exist, I am just asking a question that has always confused me.
no1likesme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 12:39 PM   #96
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,509
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by no1likesme View Post
One question I have always had is IF the jews/christians (like it or not all christians ARE jews) are correct why do some early cultures not know about them? according to the bible we all decend from two people who had direct contact with god, if this is true then logic tells me that EVERY person from EVERY culture would know about the christian god because that information would surely be passed on through each generation.

I am not necicarally claiming that god/jesus doesn't exist, I am just asking a question that has always confused me.

Read about the Tower of Babel and the aftermath.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 12:46 PM   #97
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InBBA View Post
There are other HISTORY books that talk of Jesus. Look in Roman text where Pilate was scared and washed his hands and the accounts of the soilders at the tomb. But they were written by men of the same time period called historians and guess what they match The Bible. I know that won't be good enough but seeing another text with similar happenings as the Bible in the same time frame is jus another fact for me that leads to my believe in my everlasting God.
You mean in the book of romans? Canonical gospels..... Still christian documents and all. Nice try though!

Pontius Pilate did in fact exist, and according to everything he wrote a guy named Jesus did too. Jesus is also mentioned in the meditations of Marcus Aurelius, among others, some 150 - 200 (?) years after his death, but nowhere do they verify all the magical stuff about the guy. A guy called jesus was on trial for conspiring against Rome, and was put to death. I've never tried to contradict that, and I am herein agreeeing that according to all kinds of sources it's verified. Please tell me how that proves that he is the holy trinity and "backed up" all of his claims.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 12:48 PM   #98
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InBBA View Post
Read about the Tower of Babel and the aftermath.
The Tower of Babel and the aftermath: The tower was built NOT to worship god, god, being selfish and insecure and all, got pissed and blew it up and made every person there speak a diefferent language so they couldn't communicate with each other (very childish thing to do), HOWEVER, they all may have left speaking different languages, but they all had the SAME MEMORY of god and his actions, so they would have passed it down, rrrriiiight.....?
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 12:57 PM   #99
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,509
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
You mean in the book of romans? Canonical gospels..... Still christian documents and all. Nice try though!

Pontius Pilate did in fact exist, and according to everything he wrote a guy named Jesus did too. Jesus is also mentioned in the meditations of Marcus Aurelius, among others, some 150 - 200 (?) years after his death, but nowhere do they verify all the magical stuff about the guy. A guy called jesus was on trial for conspiring against Rome, and was put to death. I've never tried to contradict that, and I am herein agreeeing that according to all kinds of sources it's verified. Please tell me how that proves that he is the holy trinity and "backed up" all of his claims.
No, not the book or Romans, all though the Roman's road in the book for Romans might be a good read for you. I'm talking about History books from that period of time. I'm also a little suprised that you believe Pontius Pilate existed since he's mentioned in what you believe is the "mythical bible" which makes me believe that you actually believe some of the bible.

What about the mentions in History of the darkness when Jesus was crusifed and the soilders acounts of the tomb. That is History written in other books besides the Bible.

Rome does not like enemies and that wasn't the first time when they attacked religion, i.e. when Mary slipped away to Egypt with Jesus after his birth. And the Christian Lion Battles in Rome.

Last edited by Chiefwoohaw; May 1st, 2008 at 01:04 PM.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st, 2008, 04:57 PM   #100
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,703
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
Backed up WHAT? According to WHAT? Your little book? Is that the best you can do? Please, enlighten us.

BTW, how do you know that he was resurrected from the dead...? Because his body was gone? Wait a minute, if he's god and he's spirit then what does he need a body for? Besides, your body doesn't go to heaven, so his body must still be around right?

Remeber, you can't take it with you.
First off, you can't over simply the Bible and just call it some little book, you make yourself look like an idiot, seriously, stop it. If you knew anything about the history of the Bible, you would not call it some little book. If you can accept this, let us continue.

HOW I know he raised from the dead is the perfect question to ask. I have come to the conclusion based on two things: One, the evidence at hand. Two, logical reasoning.

God didn't "need" a body, instead, he chose to become flesh. If you needed to communicate with an ant and standing over it and talking didn't end up being effective, if you BECAME an ant, surely things would work more in your favor. God chose to become flesh and dwell among us, it was his method. It has been accounted that Jesus physically rose from the dead, and that he physically ascended into heaven (diappeared into the sky). That is the testimony, but you can't say it could not happen, because God tends to do things supernaturally if you did not notice.
Dave Kerwin is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.54045 seconds with 80 queries