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Old April 28th, 2008, 07:00 PM   #41
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Holy shit.
I always wondered if Jesus's Poops were considered that. I mean....You know he did. He was human. But he was holy as well.

And dave, you hit it right on the head with what you said.

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John 1:3-5
3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood[a] it.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 12:06 PM   #42
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sova, where is the big hammer you were gonna drop?

???
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Old April 29th, 2008, 12:42 PM   #43
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sova, where is the big hammer you were gonna drop?

???
Hammer?



is that good?
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Old April 29th, 2008, 01:02 PM   #44
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Hammer?



is that good?
yeah, you were ready to really let those wack-jobs have it!!

who would be THAT idiotic to think God would speak to them, they need to be shown how crazy that is. So... let them have it!
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Old April 29th, 2008, 01:18 PM   #45
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I am genuinely curious. I want to know what happens when god speaks to you. I have never had such an experience and if I was to have one, I would be much more likely to believe the claim.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 01:57 PM   #46
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I am genuinely curious. I want to know what happens when god speaks to you. I have never had such an experience and if I was to have one, I would be much more likely to believe the claim.
I can appreciate your inquiry, and I can also appreciate your question about what claimed entity one might be hearing from. But what you have to do Mike is take an actual stance on this stuff. To sit on the fence is to never actually believe anything, but what you are not considering is that your inaction is a denial. So by upholding an agnostic position, you are denying Jesus Christ, a move that I would not recommend. If you are not FOR him, you are AGAINST him. So even though you are not out there shouting from the rooftops that Jesus is a fake, you are still denying him. So that is your position, one of denial, not acceptance, agnostics are not on the fence when it comes to Christ. I mention this because it should force the issue for you. If you deny HIM, do you also deny the rest who made the claim? What about my comments on the Holy Spirit, does that make any sense to you?
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Old April 29th, 2008, 02:11 PM   #47
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I'm ok with my position. I have absolutely no evidence to show me to believe in your god or any other god for that matter. Are you steering me into Pascal's Wager?
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Old April 29th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #48
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I'm ok with my position. I have absolutely no evidence to show me to believe in your god or any other god for that matter. Are you steering me into Pascal's Wager?
Not particularly. Althought I understand his wager, I would diagree that the existance of God is unable to be concluded on with intellectual reasoning. I think the opposite is true. I am of the position that not only is the existance of God logical and reasonable, but beyond that, the belief in Jesus Christ above all other Gods is also logical and reasonable. THAT is what I am steering you to. And if you want to hear the voice of God Mike, then you have to start by confessing your faith.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 03:19 PM   #49
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Not particularly. Althought I understand his wager, I would diagree that the existance of God is unable to be concluded on with intellectual reasoning. I think the opposite is true. I am of the position that not only is the existance of God logical and reasonable, but beyond that, the belief in Jesus Christ above all other Gods is also logical and reasonable. THAT is what I am steering you to. And if you want to hear the voice of God Mike, then you have to start by confessing your faith.
BAAAAAHHHHHH HAAAAAH HAAAAAAH!!!!!!!

ROFLMAO!!!

I'm curious, you say that "the belief in Jesus Christ above all other Gods is also logical and reasonable.".... So does that mean then that this jesus dude is even above that other god dude that you say made all this happen in the first place? That doesn't make any sense.

Mike, you better listen to him man, you have a secret closet belief that this all happened by magic, and that this jesus dude is the ubergod, and that his poop is holy.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 03:20 PM   #50
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so if i say I believe in the Christian god, i'm all set? I can't make myself believe in something I don't believe. that's what I never understood about Pascal's wager, i mean if you resort to that, you don't truly believe, and your supposed beliefs would be quite disingenuous.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 03:46 PM   #51
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Not particularly. Althought I understand his wager, I would diagree that the existance of God is unable to be concluded on with intellectual reasoning. I think the opposite is true. I am of the position that not only is the existance of God logical and reasonable, but beyond that, the belief in Jesus Christ above all other Gods is also logical and reasonable. THAT is what I am steering you to. And if you want to hear the voice of God Mike, then you have to start by confessing your faith.
"Confess"? In order to "confess" something you have to first BELIEVE that it's true, otherwise you are lying. So if I already BELIEVE then there is no need to "confess", especially since youre god supposedly knows everything that I'm thinking.

It's like your royal blue duck Alfred, I mean come on, if we believe that he's there then HE IS. If you believe it, it's true (for you), therefore when you have thoughts or see things that guide you, you will identify them as being from your god. I, on the other hand, call them "things that made me think (for myself)" and take some sort of action to resolve a problem (which of course I get the credit for because I did it, not some god).

That old saying about "God only helps those that help themselves" is about as stupid as the when George Bush said that the reason unemployment is so high is because so many people don't have jobs....

You are saying that until we can prove to you that there is no god, you will continue to believe:

I, for one, am not trying to prove to you that there isn't one. I'm questioning the information you use to conclude that this god exists Completely different thing. So saying that there is no evidence to prove that there is no god is silly. You're right. There IS no evidence to prove that your god does not exist. In your mind, and the minds of many others, it's true. In the mind of many people there is also a Santa Clause. Can you prove that he DOES NOT EXIST?

I say that little green monkeys crawl out of my butt and tell me to do things that embarrass me. The only time I EVER do anything embarrassing is when those pesky monkeys are making mischief.... Now, I will bet you 1 month's pay that you cannot prove to me otherwise.

My monkey's and I are all ears.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 04:01 PM   #52
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I'm curious, you say that "the belief in Jesus Christ above all other Gods is also logical and reasonable.".... So does that mean then that this jesus dude is even above that other god dude that you say made all this happen in the first place? That doesn't make any sense.
Jesus and God are one, as he claimed, and as it is notated in the gospels. Jesus is God, and God is Jesus. So for me to say that Jesus Christ powenz all, I am also saying that God owns all, they are on in the same. No confusion meant, and that is an item of clarity I probably should have mentioned.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 04:02 PM   #53
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so if i say I believe in the Christian god, i'm all set? I can't make myself believe in something I don't believe. that's what I never understood about Pascal's wager, i mean if you resort to that, you don't truly believe, and your supposed beliefs would be quite disingenuous.
You can't make yourself, nor would I recommend anyone fake a belief to get a passover hell card. God knows the heart. Like I said, I don't promote it directly, but I can appreciate part of what he said. What I would recommend, however, is a deeper investigation into the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 04:11 PM   #54
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"Confess"? In order to "confess" something you have to first BELIEVE that it's true, otherwise you are lying. So if I already BELIEVE then there is no need to "confess", especially since youre god supposedly knows everything that I'm thinking.

It's like your royal blue duck Alfred, I mean come on, if we believe that he's there then HE IS. If you believe it, it's true (for you)
I agree, to confess you have to first believe. This is beneficial to mankind since God does not require a performance-based salvation.

I would not want someone to believe something just for themselves, that is called subjective truth. Intead, I want ABSOLUTE truth, something that is true for ALL. For example: Gravity exists. That is ABSOLUTELY true for all of us, and if in my mind I believe something different, it does not matter, because gravity DOES exist.

I said before that I find it to be a logical and reasonable conclusion that God exists, and that Jesus Christ is God. I would be willing to entertain a new discussion on that, and if you are equally interested, then start it and I will take it.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 10:05 PM   #55
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"Confess"? In order to "confess" something you have to first BELIEVE that it's true, otherwise you are lying. So if I already BELIEVE then there is no need to "confess", especially since youre god supposedly knows everything that I'm thinking.

It's like your royal blue duck Alfred, I mean come on, if we believe that he's there then HE IS. If you believe it, it's true (for you), therefore when you have thoughts or see things that guide you, you will identify them as being from your god. I, on the other hand, call them "things that made me think (for myself)" and take some sort of action to resolve a problem (which of course I get the credit for because I did it, not some god).......

My monkey's and I are all ears.
That wasn't dave, that was me. Alfred is dismayed in your mistake. He'll forgive you this time though. And if your Monkey's are all ears, it must suck for them when you let one rip. That would hurt.

Did you form your opinion about Santa Claus because your parents told you? If so, who's the robot now? :tonka: Ok, I'm done with the Shananigans.

In order to hear God, you have to listen. That's also a Big thing. This is something that most Christains in our culture struggle with. I mean, Between work, Class, Soccer practice, and Sleep there is little time to slow down and Listen. Think about the last time you were in near-complete Silence. Maybe he did say something to you, You just didn't realize it.
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Old April 29th, 2008, 11:04 PM   #56
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I agree, to confess you have to first believe. This is beneficial to mankind since God does not require a performance-based salvation.

I would not want someone to believe something just for themselves, that is called subjective truth. Intead, I want ABSOLUTE truth, something that is true for ALL. For example: Gravity exists. That is ABSOLUTELY true for all of us, and if in my mind I believe something different, it does not matter, because gravity DOES exist.

I said before that I find it to be a logical and reasonable conclusion that God exists, and that Jesus Christ is God. I would be willing to entertain a new discussion on that, and if you are equally interested, then start it and I will take it.
Dave, I would love to see some evidence of the existence of your god as well as evidence that Jesus existed and is God. But I have a feeling that you will just start quoting bible verses, which I do not accept as proof.

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Old April 30th, 2008, 08:27 AM   #57
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Dave, I would love to see some evidence of the existence of your god as well as evidence that Jesus existed and is God. But I have a feeling that you will just start quoting bible verses, which I do not accept as proof.
x2!

Also, how can god and jesus be the same? Wasn't jesus created by god via immaculate conception? That would mean that he previously didn't exist.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 08:43 AM   #58
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That wasn't dave, that was me. Alfred is dismayed in your mistake. He'll forgive you this time though. And if your Monkey's are all ears, it must suck for them when you let one rip. That would hurt.

Did you form your opinion about Santa Claus because your parents told you? If so, who's the robot now? :tonka: Ok, I'm done with the Shananigans. No, I'm not a robot. There's all kinds of proof. There's all those shows about Santa on the teevee every year, and then I always see him at the mall, and I get presents with cards signed by Santa. Hell, there's even PICTURES of the guy. Now how can you deny that? Isn't that proof enough for you?

In order to hear God, you have to listen For god. You have to listen FOR GOD. I listen to lots of things. If I have a prepossession to hear god, then I will because that is the result of prepossession.. That's also a Big thing. This is something that most Christains in our culture struggle with. I mean, Between work, Class, Soccer practice, and Sleep there is little time to slow down and Listen. Think about the last time you were in near-complete Silence. This could imply that I need to be in silence to hear god.....?Maybe he did say something to you, You just didn't realize it. Maybe because I didn't have a prepossession to equate what I am hearing as god.....? Look, if he's that almighty powerful and wants to say something to me, I'm sure he/she/it would make themselves heard. "near-complete silence"..... Please.
....
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Old April 30th, 2008, 08:47 AM   #59
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I agree, to confess you have to first believe. This is beneficial to mankind since God does not require a performance-based salvation. Right, so you told us before that in order to know god we have to confess, or some other such nonsense. In order to confess we have to believe. if we already believe, then obviously we're going to "know god" because because we already believe. It's like my monkeys. You can't see them unless you BELIEVE in them, then they will make themselves known to you. My proof of this is: If there is anyone out there that does not TRULY believe that monkeys come out of my ass, then they won't be able to see them. If you can't see them, then you don't TRULY believe. My monkeys know your true heart.

I would not want someone to believe something just for themselves, that is called subjective truth. Intead, I want ABSOLUTE truth, something that is true for ALL. For example: Gravity exists. That is ABSOLUTELY true for all of us, and if in my mind I believe something different, it does not matter, because gravity DOES exist.

I said before that I find it to be a logical and reasonable conclusion that God exists, and that Jesus Christ is God. I would be willing to entertain a new discussion on that, and if you are equally interested, then start it and I will take it.
You took part in the long thread, "So Mr. Toes wants me to start a thread arguing the bible..." didn't you? We can pick up where we left off on that one if you like.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 09:25 AM   #60
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Dave, I would love to see some evidence of the existence of your god as well as evidence that Jesus existed and is God. But I have a feeling that you will just start quoting bible verses, which I do not accept as proof.
Mike, I cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exists, or that Jesus is God, the same way that you cannot prove that evolution is true beyond a shadow of a doubt, or that its theory explains our origins. The point is this, if you are willing to make a logical conclusion based on the best data available, then lets have at it. Further, if you are willing to accept EYE WITNESS accounts of the gospels as part of a progressive thought, then again, lets have a it. If either of those are unacceptable then I will not entertain the discussion.
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