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Old April 7th, 2006, 09:51 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos
Sorry, wrong word to pick then. If you are engaging in a criminal act. As for the accident, they did NOT find the cop at fault. Merely that his actions contributed to it and thus negated the murder charge.

alot of good points, really sorry this happened.

I also agree with the 2nd degree murder being negated but truth of the matter. need to protect yourself at all times.

should've tried him for involuntary manslaughter.

lot of things from the accident not given and couldn't be unless you were involved. too much speculation.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 09:54 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos
Sorry, wrong word to pick then. If you are engaging in a criminal act. As for the accident, they did NOT find the cop at fault. Merely that his actions contributed to it and thus negated the murder charge.

alot of good points, really sorry this happened.

I also agree with the 2nd degree murder being negated, but truth of the matter. need to protect yourself at all times.

should've tried him for involuntary manslaughter.

lot of things from the accident not given and couldn't be unless you were involved. too much speculation.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 10:17 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by TJrockdogg
alot of good points, really sorry this happened.

I also agree with the 2nd degree murder being negated, but truth of the matter. need to protect yourself at all times.

should've tried him for involuntary manslaughter.

lot of things from the accident not given and couldn't be unless you were involved. too much speculation.

Actually, I think they can re-try him on involuntary if I'm not mistaken. Not sure legally if double jeopardy would apply in this case. Involuntary I believe is what he should have been charged with to begin with.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 10:18 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Haggar
So, if you are driving your Jeep and your bumper height is too high by 1" then, again, you forfeit all your legal rights if someone pulls out in front of you and you can't avoid hitting them?

The law doesn't work that way, for a reason.

That is not a crinimal act though. A criminal act is something a person actively does. And yes, the law works this way in many cases. We just need it clarified for this reason.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 10:19 AM   #25
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This has nothing to do about drinking and driving, it has to do with a cop driving like an asshat that thinks he is invincible (as most I have seen do) and causing an accident. I mean come on now, it was in an open area at night (so there were sure to be lights coming) then he is too impatient to take the correct route to the station and pulls a u-turn, crosses 3 lanes and didnt see the guy that hit him. WTF, can someone tell me why police are allowed to dirve like this, obviously there is a flaw in the driver training.

Sorry I have no sympathy for when a cop messes up like this
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Old April 7th, 2006, 10:21 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Gunsworth
This has nothing to do about drinking and driving, it has to do with a cop driving like an asshat that thinks he is invincible (as most I have seen do) and causing an accident. I mean come on now, it was in an open area at night (so there were sure to be lights coming) then he is too impatient to take the correct route to the station and pulls a u-turn, crosses 3 lanes and didnt see the guy that hit him. WTF, can someone tell me why police are allowed to dirve like this, obviously there is a flaw in the driver training.

Sorry I have no sympathy for when a cop messes up like this

U-turns are allowed on highways by police officers. It's not a fuckup. The cop misjudged the speed at which the drunk was driving.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 10:29 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Lothos
U-turns are allowed on highways by police officers. It's not a fuckup. The cop misjudged the speed at which the drunk was driving.
I dont see why it was neccesary in this case, and I think that is a pretty shitty misjudgement regardless
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Old April 7th, 2006, 10:44 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Gunsworth
I dont see why it was neccesary in this case, and I think that is a pretty shitty misjudgement regardless

you would,
can tell you have a personal beef with all police with a comment like that.

as I stated too much speculation to come up with an honest opinion.

just my input.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 11:38 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos
U-turns are allowed on highways by police officers. It's not a fuckup. The cop misjudged the speed at which the drunk was driving.
Failure to yield is a moving violation. You can't cut out in front of people just because you are a cop.

The burden of responsibility is on the officer. He had to look at traffic, and see if he could make it safely across. He failed in that judgement, and caused an accident by pulling out in front of traffic.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 11:49 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lothos
U-turns are allowed on highways by police officers. It's not a fuckup. The cop misjudged the speed at which the drunk was driving.
When you are performing a u-turn on a highway like that, you are turning into the other side's left lane, where there is commonly not much of a shoulder (if any) and many times a barrier, so reflective decals may not be visible and the car might be "unmarked" as well with no overhead lights. (I didn't see any details about the location.)

You are also looking out the opposite side of the car and at an angle through he passenger rear window - through the containment glass and the asshat he arrested - while pulling out onto the highway. The guy he arrested could have been fucking around in the back seat, yelling at him, or any number of things. Without trying to defend the drunk driver, I don't think anyone can deny that the officer either misjudged the lane of the oncoming car, was distracted by his prisoner and didn't see it at all, or underestimated the oncoming car's speed - all while performing a maneuver that is not exactly the safest thing to do, or we would all be allowed to do it. I guess he could have put his emergency lights on. Even at 100mph, you can still see those very far away (because its exactly what you are looking for). To be honest, I have almost whacked cops doing this with my Ram in broad daylight while commuting. They have to pull out as far as they can just so they can see and sometimes its swerveably close.

The whole thing was unfortunate, but I think from a technical perspective regarding rights, it was in the drunk driver's best interest to sue. Also, since the cop was found not to be responsible of actually causing the crash to a criminal extent, the possibility of negligence arises from a civil standpoint - however insulting it may be to the cop's family.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 12:10 PM   #31
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If there's one thing this thread has reminded me... it's to not make snap judgements when reading articles like that. My first comment is invalid now as the added information has changed it...

I can't help but agree with the sentiments that the cop did something very stupid that got him killed. Especially since no one expects a person to do something like that, even sober I could see the kid still hitting the cop and still killing him. It's a sad situation, yes... but still it could've been avoided completely if the u-turn wasn't made.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 12:15 PM   #32
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Well, it could also have been avoided if the kid wasn't speeding, as he would not yet have arrived at the u-turn location when the cop was crossing over. A change in any one of the variables could have altered the outcome - or eliminated it.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 12:32 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PavementPounder
The whole thing was unfortunate, but I think from a technical perspective regarding rights, it was in the drunk driver's best interest to sue. Also, since the cop was found not to be responsible of actually causing the crash to a criminal extent, the possibility of negligence arises from a civil standpoint - however insulting it may be to the cop's family.

there is alot of this-n-that going on hear so I researched this further. there is still not enough information to make a decision who's should be at fault. my decision works this way, the guy that got aressted originally should get all his medical, and pain/suffering from police dept. the cop is dead I'm very sorry about that. the guy in the focus should have to take care of himself and get charged with involuntary manslaughter. just my input. make your own decision.

Davis, 36, had just arrested a suspected drunken driver on the southbound lanes of I-75 near Adams Road around 2:45 a.m. when his patrol car was hit by Campbell's Ford Focus as he attempted to turn around into the northbound lanes

"The headlights from the Focus illuminated the side of the police car. I could see the reflective markings," witness Donald Koleber said. "It was within a second after that, that I witnessed the impact." the Focus crashed into the side of the police cruiser, lifting the Focus about 4 or 5 feet off the ground.

"The Ford Focus caught on fire. A supporting police officer and I took the driver of the Ford Focus, unlocked his seat belt from him and took him to what we thought was a safe distance from the car while we extinguished the fire,"

The Focus hit the officer's patrol car broadside on the southbound side of the freeway near Square Lake Road, according to the station. Investigators said there were no skid marks on the freeway, implying the Focus did not slow down before the crash.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 12:42 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJrockdogg
just my input. make your own decision.
That's exactly what we've been doing, thanks. Sounds like you just don't want to hear it since you keep repeating "just my input" everywhere. If its "just your input", all the "this-n-that" going on "hear" shouldn't be a concern of yours.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TJrockdogg
Davis, 36, had just arrested a suspected drunken driver on the southbound lanes of I-75 near Adams Road around 2:45 a.m. when his patrol car was hit by Campbell's Ford Focus as he attempted to turn around into the northbound lanes.
I saw this after following the links at the bottom. Can anyone recall if there a concrete median there, or just grass?
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Old April 7th, 2006, 12:47 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
No, I don't think that. But hey, I'm just an automotive engineer with years of ABS/braking/traction control experience.

I'm not allowed to sit on Juries.

YOU would side with a cop no matter what on this issue.


If you broke into someones house, and they caught you, chained you to a bed, raped you, etc, do you lose all fo your rights because you were committing a crime?




I guarantee you.. GUARANTEE.. that if that cop was an joe-schmo driver, and a cop saw them pull out across the I-75 lanes, they would have gotten a ticket. The officer committed a moving violation, and it cost him his life.

Haggar, I know you think that just because I married to a cop, I bleed blue, but you would be wrong. I know that there are cops that make mistakes or break the law and think their badge should get them out of it, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. A cop can use discretion (sorry on that spelling) regardless if the person is a cop or not. It seems to me that since you haven't been that lucky, you have an axe to grind with cops or those that may support what they do.

This is the last time I will respond to any of your bullshit here or anywhere else, we will ALWAYS disagree on this subject and that should be the end of it. Please don't bring me into your crap anymore. (I'm not speaking of this thread or post, but one you've made in the past that I hadn't even responded to.)


In regards to whether the prisoner should sue, I think he should. He wasn't at fault in this, he made the mistake of doing the same thing that this kid did, drinking and driving, but he was in custody of the officer and it was the officer's responsibility to keep him from harm as soon as he cuffed him.

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Old April 7th, 2006, 01:00 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by PavementPounder
That's exactly what we've been doing, thanks. Sounds like you just don't want to hear it since you keep repeating "just my input" everywhere. If its "just your input", all the "this-n-that" going on "hear" shouldn't be a concern of yours.





I saw this after following the links at the bottom. Can anyone recall if there a concrete median there, or just grass?

well if you need to know why I put " just my input" after all most of my post is and most of you who personally know me know this already.

back in Oct I was involved in a pretty traumatic motor cycle accident. spent 4 days in a coma and 6 weeks in the hospital. fractured my skull where your brain and spinal cord meet. the Dr's say I have bruising on the right side of my brain. they expected alot worse for me. but i'm slowly making it back.

the this-n-that was regards to people making comments not knowing the whole situation. and it seems that maybe people were getting confused on who's sueing who. I did I admit it.
the reason I post that is I don't want to offend anyone with the way my brain is thinking. so are you happy now. just my input.

Last edited by TJrockdogg; April 7th, 2006 at 01:08 PM.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 01:10 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by PavementPounder
I saw this after following the links at the bottom. Can anyone recall if there a concrete median there, or just grass?
99% sure it's concrete median. I don't think there's just grass anywhere from Detroit to Flint now.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 01:19 PM   #38
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If I recall right, this was south bound 75, south of Square Lake rd. He went across all lanes to get to north bound 75 so he could get off at Square Lake Rd and take that to Telegraph.......

That are now has guard rails..
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Old April 7th, 2006, 01:25 PM   #39
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Here is a pretty good artical.... Also didn't know the officer or the drunk in the back didn't have a seat belt on......

http://tagolden.com/garydavis.pdf


Note: The above article advocated that the Chief of Police of Bloomfield Township be replaced. The Chief abruptly resigned January 20, 2006, effective February 3, 2006.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 01:31 PM   #40
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He went across all lanes to get to north bound 75 so he could get off at .......
Well, if you think about it, he would have to have gone across all the lanes no matter what to use any emergency vehicle turnaround. The problem occurred on the northbound side, anyway. The distance that he travelled south, the method he used while crossing the southbound lanes to get to the median, or anything else he did on the southbound side doesn't appear to have anything to do with the accident from what I can tell.
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