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Old April 21st, 2008, 09:37 PM   #21
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It's lookin' real good guys. All those hours of thinking, planning, tinkering are paying off. Lots of cool details. Pics don't do the quality of the work justice.

95geo/whiterino- correct me if I'm wrong 'bout the rear sway bar, but on a air shock suspension you can tie the front end up with your winch to limit suspension and sway. Can't do that with the rear. Azz end will try to pass the front on a corner if you drive hard on "civilized" roads.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 11:05 PM   #22
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It's lookin' real good guys. All those hours of thinking, planning, tinkering are paying off. Lots of cool details. Pics don't do the quality of the work justice.

95geo/whiterino- correct me if I'm wrong 'bout the rear sway bar, but on a air shock suspension you can tie the front end up with your winch to limit suspension and sway. Can't do that with the rear. Azz end will try to pass the front on a corner if you drive hard on "civilized" roads.
Usually the winch is just used to lower the center of gravity to help it climb. It would do nothing for sway. All ass ends will pass the fronts on a wrangler if driven hard on the road too
Looking good guys, when your done you can come over to help me finish mine if you want.
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Old April 21st, 2008, 11:38 PM   #23
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The enginner on this job failed on thing vertical weld should have plating to give it a little more strenght due to flexing that will cause breakage around the joints of welding. But then what do I know been around the blocks a few time and have seen a few broken frames...
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Old April 21st, 2008, 11:55 PM   #24
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The enginner on this job failed on thing vertical weld should have plating to give it a little more strenght due to flexing that will cause breakage around the joints of welding. But then what do I know been around the blocks a few time and have seen a few broken frames...

I was thinking the same thing, these rookies have no clue what they're doing, do they..
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 12:24 AM   #25
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Usually the winch is just used to lower the center of gravity to help it climb. It would do nothing for sway. All ass ends will pass the fronts on a wrangler if driven hard on the road too
Looking good guys, when your done you can come over to help me finish mine if you want.
actaully, drawing the suspension down will essentially add a higher psi on the shock, reducing sway. I use the rear winch more for sway control than I do for hill descent...

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The enginner on this job failed on thing vertical weld should have plating to give it a little more strenght due to flexing that will cause breakage around the joints of welding. But then what do I know been around the blocks a few time and have seen a few broken frames...
I think you are talking about fish-plating the joints on the frame, but I really have no idea what you are talking about.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 01:02 AM   #26
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I think you are talking about fish-plating the joints on the frame, but I really have no idea what you are talking about.
I think he is talking about these joints.


If they were just straight welds I would agree, but the Clecos have to hold on to something, so I assumed there was a plate behind each joint as well.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 06:46 AM   #27
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The enginner on this job failed on thing vertical weld should have plating to give it a little more strenght due to flexing that will cause breakage around the joints of welding. But then what do I know been around the blocks a few time and have seen a few broken frames...
you're so cool and trendy, you used "failed"

so, lets go into your superior intelligence on frames..... this picture is what it replaces, just for reference.....



the existing frame is what, .100" thick? 2.5x4 box section with no welds in that area. The new frame is .120" wall 2x4 box that has been butt welded and welded flat off the vehicle, not vertical and that just so happens to be the worst weld on the truck and it was not ground down to cover it up to sacrifice strength.

There is no internal bracing except where it splices into the stock frame. what you dont see is the fact that the b and c hoops on the cage are also tied into the frame. The angle on the joint is flat enough that pulling it apart at one end is highly unlikely even though it doesnt have fishy plates anywhere on it and it doesnt meet your e-engineering approval.

If it ever shows signs of failure I'll be sure to post up and admit you were correct, until then, just remember not everything needs to be built 5 times stronger than it needs to be.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 07:18 AM   #28
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just remember not everything needs to be built 5 times stronger than it needs to be.
this is all I read and made me wonder why Jimbo needed a 60?
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 07:51 AM   #29
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I think he is talking about these joints.


If they were just straight welds I would agree, but the Clecos have to hold on to something, so I assumed there was a plate behind each joint as well.

"Clecos" I was wondering what those things sticking out were, so I had to look it up. For those of you who, like me, didn't know ( I'm not talking about you dodger889, I'm sure you knew this, since you've been "around the blocks a few time") Here's the skinny....

Clecos are plier operated, spring loaded fasteners. These temporary fasteners, originally designed for the "Aerospace" industry, are the way to go if your working with sheet metal panels. Clecos temporarily hold the material in place until it is ready to be fastened permanently. Many car builders have hung complete bodies with clecos before ever using any permanent fastening. Also shown in the image above are Wing-Nut style and Side-Grip style. Wing-Nut style is recommended for applications where high clamping force is required and can provide up to 300 lbs.clamping force. Side-Grip clamps are designed to clamp at the edge of the work area and are ideal for all types of materials. We stock these popular styles and sizes listed below. There are MANY OTHER styles and sizes available
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 08:38 AM   #30
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this is all I read and made me wonder why Jimbo needed a 60?
How many shafts did you replace at Windrock?

The goal here is to be as close to bulletproof as possible without overbuilding. With this setup, I should never need to do another axle swap as long as I stay in the low 40" tire range.......... which is how the suspension is also set up. Let's see how long that D44 lasts with your 39.5's.:tonka:
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 08:43 AM   #31
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actaully, drawing the suspension down will essentially add a higher psi on the shock, reducing sway. I use the rear winch more for sway control than I do for hill descent...
ah, good point. I forgot about the air shocks getting stiffer as it compresses. But wouldnt it be used very rarely as it would cause it to ride like shit by not letting it extend at all?
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 08:45 AM   #32
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Gotta remember, its the mass spinning around and catching on something that breaks them. If hes going to a 40 sometime then a 60 is perfect. He could still break that too if he tries hard enough.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 08:48 AM   #33
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How many shafts did you replace at Windrock?

The goal here is to be as close to bulletproof as possible without overbuilding. With this setup, I should never need to do another axle swap as long as I stay in the low 40" tire range.......... which is how the suspension is also set up. Let's see how long that D44 lasts with your 39.5's.:tonka:
With the 30 ... 1 per day. Although they both last until the last rock at Rattlerock.

The 44 is doing fine getting on and off the trailer.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 08:59 AM   #34
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The 44 is doing fine getting on and off the trailer.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 09:00 AM   #35
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Jim - With the lack of safety on your build kills you, I'll see you in heaven when my rig (much underbuilt from yours) fails, too.

As for the rear antisway, I'm sure you'll be alright. With no tuning on my rear airshocks, it does alright.

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Gotta remember, its the mass spinning around and catching on something that breaks them. If hes going to a 40 sometime then a 60 is perfect. He could still break that too if he tries hard enough.
The one 60 shaft I broke was with no tire spin. I was climbing a wall, and only one tire had good traction. Bye bye shaft. It took the ears off my short side inner.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 09:07 AM   #36
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OK for some of you who are thinking I'm all wet behind the ears. The first place any butt joint breaks is before or after the weld the fish plating only spreads out the pressure on that joint to make sure you don't crack the area around the weld. Since you seem to be building more than a normal usage of a jeep for doing flexing and high impact off roading. The stress you are adding to the frame will be three to four times what the jeep was designed to do. And being that you made the new part of the frame out of heavier metal which means less flexing of the frame mean you transfer more stress to the old part of the frame. Granted I might be not seeing the splice you did inside of the old frame but I also didn't see any weld joints to that splice in any pictures. Call me a fool but over building something now is better than repairing something in the future IE on the trail in the middle of nowhere.

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Old April 22nd, 2008, 09:30 AM   #37
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Jim - With the lack of safety on your build kills you, I'll see you in heaven when my rig (much underbuilt from yours) fails, too.

As for the rear antisway, I'm sure you'll be alright. With no tuning on my rear airshocks, it does alright.



The one 60 shaft I broke was with no tire spin. I was climbing a wall, and only one tire had good traction. Bye bye shaft. It took the ears off my short side inner.
Its all that horsepower I quess I'm just paraniod because I just put together my H1 wheels and think I will be breaking shit because of them spinning....if I can spin them.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 09:30 AM   #38
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When it fails I will put some goober welds on it & it will be just fine.

The portion of the frame that was scrapped was down to about .060 thick in spots & this jeep has already seen a fair share of flexing. I'm really not worried about the frame having a problem in that area. It is tied into the B and C hoops and they are tied together inside the cabin. So the structural integretity of this is not exactly stock either.

By the way, the engineer on the job was my 8 month old grandson.:tonka:
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 09:47 AM   #39
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IF it fails I will put some goober welds on it & it will be just fine.
fixed it.....

for the record, it isn't going to break and I'm not going to add anything to it.

IF i'm wrong I'll eat crow
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 10:25 AM   #40
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Raw crow, or cooked crow? The thing is looking good, your dad was telling us all about it yesterday...
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