CJ7 NARROWED 1-TON AXLE SWAP (w questions please help!)

[0llllll0]

To the mod. if this is in the wrong section please feel free to move. Thanks

I’m in the planning stages of putting Narrowed 1-ton axles under a CJ-7 and need some advice. I have done a fair share of research but I still have questions.

First the details;
Current=
CJ7 (w TJ flares)
Engine = Built 401
Trans = T-15
T/C = D20
Suspension = 4” SUA springs and 1.5” shackles
Frt. Axle = D30, 6 bolt hubs, disc brakes, 4:56 gears, Broken Detroit locker and Warn high strength shafts (in the past had 5 bolt hubs, broke them often, replaced with 6 bolt hubs then broke shafts, replaced shafts with above mentioned warn shafts now broke the locker – the main reason for upgrading to the 1-ton)
Rear Axle = AMC 20, 1 piece shafts, drum brakes, 4:56/Detriot, bent tubes.
Tires/Rims = 36 x 14.5 x 15 Swamper TSL radials, 10” wide alum. mods.

Planned changes / mods;
1 Ton axles, 8 lug, frt & rr narrowed to ~60” WMS to WMS, Type = TBD,
i.e. Frt = D60 Low Pinion from Chevy or Dodge SRW, Hi Pinion Ford (this would require making pass side drop, correct?) Other Frt options = ???
Rear = D60 FF (donor truck = ???) or Shaved Corp 14 Bolt FF, disc brakes
Suspension = SOA w/ Wrangler leafs
Trans = T400 (at this time the D20 t-case will stay)
Tires = 38.5 x 12.5 x ? Swampers (most likely 16” but not sure) and Sand Paddles for the dunes.
Drive shafts = New w/ CV rear.

This Jeep is, and will continue to be, used mainly as a Mich. trail / mud / sand & snow rig, With the hopes of venturing to rocky places like Tellico, Bad Lands, etc… however, this is a nice clean rust free steel body jeep and Black Diamond trails where body damage is likely would be avoided. The 60” track width is what was decided to keep the jeep stock looking and transverse the two tracks a little easier.

So to my questions,

1.) I think it would be more cost effective to buy a used set of complete axles and have the housings narrowed (Ironman) buy new shafts or have them narrowed also VS. buying completed assemblies from an Axle manufacturer, Is this assumption correct or in the end is it a wash by the time everything is said and done?

2.) What are my options for a Hi Pinion frt axle, is taking a ford driver side drop and cut both sides the only option? Or should I not bother and use a std. pinion chevy or dodge?

3.) Dana 60 or Corp 14 rear, which one to use? If using a 60 FF are the shafts necked down so that the shafts can’t be shortened like the Corp 14?

4.) Are D60 FF rears easy to come by, what is a common donor trucks?

5.) What other issues should be taken into consideration when planning and executing this project?

Finally, I would appreciate any and all comments/suggestions that may help this project become reality.

THANK YOU!
Ken

[fsumotorhead]

I would check in to a 3/4 - 1 ton van rear axle, ford van axles are much narrower than trucks.

IDK thought it might help

[kickstand]

You are the only one who can answer if the cost is justified by buying junkyard axles, making them right for your setup vs buying brand new shit from a supplier.

If you get junkyard axles you will have to buy shock tabs, spring plates, pay for them to be narrowed, rebuilt, new gears, lockers, axles, labor etc. How much of that work can you do yourself?


If you buy turn key axles how much are they? They will have all new bearings, balljoints/kingpins, brakes, gears, lockers, etc.

Do the math.

[Ebs]

If you're looking to stay narrow, isn't a cab & chassis 14 bolt around 63" wide? I'd start there and work a front D60 to match that width. You'd save a lot of money over having to narrow a rear housing and get custom shafts for it, then that'd just leave you with the front to worry about. I haven't research D60s enough to know, but I don't think there is a combination of factory shafts you could use to cut down a housing that narrow, so you'll most likely have to get custom/resplined shafts either way.

[sodapop]

Not an axle opinion but a spring opinion. Stock wrangler leafs SOA with a big motor won't last very long. I'd consider either beefing them up by adding a second main leaf (which still may not be enough) or buying RE 1.5" soa Springs.

As for the axles, UP_ROKTOY has a good point. used axles always seem cheap but you'd be surprised how quickly they can nickel and dime you over the cost of a complete new axle.

Another thing to consider is do you really need 1-ton axles? Sounds like you've got enough motor to justify them, especially for the rear. However, if you're going to avoid body damage type trails, then heavy rocks aren't going to be for you and in that case a Dana 44 front might be a good option. personally, I built a 44 and there are some days I wish I had built a 60 but then I tell myself, you've never even broke the dana 30 on the trail so why... just something to consider.

[0llllll0]

Thanks Guys !

Keep the info coming.

Here are a few pic's of the jeep.

Thanks,
Ken

[kickstand]

That thing is super clean and nice! I wouldnt get it dented up either

[Nuzzy]

FWIW, this guy knows his shit and has hooked me up with excellent deals on 1 tons before:

http://www.extremeaxlesales.com/index.asp

Goes by Highhonda (or something similar) on Pirate. Even from the east coast with shipping, his axles cost me less then buying local out in Washington. Just a link to look through

[0llllll0]

Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY

You are the only one who can answer if the cost is justified by buying junkyard axles, making them right for your setup vs buying brand new shit from a supplier.

If you get junkyard axles you will have to buy shock tabs, spring plates, pay for them to be narrowed, rebuilt, new gears, lockers, axles, labor etc. How much of that work can you do yourself?


If you buy turn key axles how much are they? They will have all new bearings, balljoints/kingpins, brakes, gears, lockers, etc.

Do the math.

I agree and I guess that’s where I’m at, at the moment, meaning I’m still doing the math and would like to hear from anyone who has gone through this, to make sure I don’t overlook something. When I’ve talked to some of the suppliers, depending on the options it could be as much as $14,000 for a set of complete axles.

Originally Posted by sodapop

Not an axle opinion but a spring opinion. Stock wrangler leafs SOA with a big motor won't last very long. I'd consider either beefing them up by adding a second main leaf (which still may not be enough) or buying RE 1.5" soa Springs.

As for the axles, UP_ROKTOY has a good point. used axles always seem cheap but you'd be surprised how quickly they can nickel and dime you over the cost of a complete new axle.

Another thing to consider is do you really need 1-ton axles? Sounds like you've got enough motor to justify them, especially for the rear. However, if you're going to avoid body damage type trails, then heavy rocks aren't going to be for you and in that case a Dana 44 front might be a good option. personally, I built a 44 and there are some days I wish I had built a 60 but then I tell myself, you've never even broke the dana 30 on the trail so why... just something to consider.

Thanks good info ! Regarding the Wrangler springs, I guess I didn’t mean “stock” just the fact that it will be upgraded to the wider type springs. Will take a look into the RE 1.5" soa Springs you mentioned . And I hear you on the “nickel and dime” reference, again this is why I’m asking for advice. The D44 is really not an option, I don’t ever want to say “Dam’it I should have went with a 60” and this thing, as it is now, Eats 30’s all day long.

Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY

That thing is super clean and nice! I wouldnt get it dented up either

Originally Posted by Nuzzy

FWIW, this guy knows his shit and has hooked me up with excellent deals on 1 tons before:

http://www.extremeaxlesales.com/index.asp

Goes by Highhonda (or something similar) on Pirate. Even from the east coast with shipping, his axles cost me less then buying local out in Washington. Just a link to look through

Thanks Nuzzy, I’ll give him a call.

Thanks again to all repliers

[BMFmike]

Narrowing can get expensive if you arent going to be doing a lot of it, if you can work the suspension and/or have the room you can run some H1's or H2's to bring the tires back in.

thats all i have to say about that.

[0llllll0]

Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY

If you get junkyard axles you will have to buy shock tabs, spring plates, pay for them to be narrowed, rebuilt, new gears, lockers, axles, labor etc. How much of that work can you do yourself?

Forgot to address this, We'll have to outsource the ring & pinion set up, narrowing the housings and shortening the shafts. We (me & friends) will do everything else.

[JohnnyJ]

One thing to be concerned with is that a 60" wide front dana 60 is quite narrow. D60 knuckles are quite large, as is the pig. This could make it difficult to get the pig in a good location for driveshaft clearance and keep the width you'd like.

I remember a few years ago a buddy went from a stock width Scout D44 to a stock width Dodge D60 and we were amazed that even with the almost 10" extra width, that there was not much (if any) extra tube. The pig and knuckles are that much bigger.

[JohnnyJ]

Originally Posted by 0llllll0

Forgot to address this, We'll have to outsource the ring & pinion set up, narrowing the housings and shortening the shafts. We (me & friends) will do everything else.

What does that leave for you? You just listed the expensive bits as the outsource parts.

[liv2mx]

best way is to buy a compete truck with 1 tons.get the axles take the truck to the scrap yard. go through check everything bearings seals etc.then gear them and go.a 14 bolt can be welded and will just about never break.so saved money on a locker.i just did 1 tons under 2 tj's in the last year and neather one of us has more then a grand in our axles .that is with disc conversion on rear.it can be done very cheap if you shop around and be smart. dont shorten the axles just get wheels with 5 to 6 of backspacing.

[0llllll0]

Originally Posted by JohnnyJ

What does that leave for you? You just listed the expensive bits as the outsource parts.

ouch

[brimy311]

Depending on the d60, you might not be able to shorten and respline the axle shaft. Some d60's have shafts that tapper down and they can not be shorten and resplined.

[0llllll0]

Originally Posted by JohnnyJ

One thing to be concerned with is that a 60" wide front dana 60 is quite narrow. D60 knuckles are quite large, as is the pig. This could make it difficult to get the pig in a good location for driveshaft clearance and keep the width you'd like.

I remember a few years ago a buddy went from a stock width Scout D44 to a stock width Dodge D60 and we were amazed that even with the almost 10" extra width, that there was not much (if any) extra tube. The pig and knuckles are that much bigger.

Thanks JonnyJ, point taken, I was looking at a Dodge 60 (see attached) and the short side, already looks pretty short!

Does anyone know what is the narrowest a D60 front can be and still use the36" CJ7 spring perch width? Maybe 60" wms - wms is not something that is possible

[BMFmike]

http://pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista...ont/index.html

[95geo]

Originally Posted by 0llllll0

Thanks JonnyJ, point taken, I was looking at a Dodge 60 (see attached) and the short side, already looks pretty short!

Does anyone know what is the narrowest a D60 front can be and still use the36" CJ7 spring perch width? Maybe 60" wms - wms is not something that is possible

do some math, I'd bet you will have 50% of your steering with an axle that wide.

I'm in the process of building a YJ on 60's and 40's just barely touch the frame at full lock with a 65" axle.

good luck and do lots of research, it's a jeep so chances are that it's already been done before and figured out, you just have to find out where the answers are.

ohh, yeah.... take whatever budget you have figured out and double it.

[BMFmike]

Originally Posted by 95geo

ohh, yeah.... take whatever budget you have figured out and double it.

x20

And then add in another 2k for fun.