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Old May 6th, 2008, 09:10 AM   #61
AGoodBuzz
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Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
This is from an article in the Boston Globe

Though Obama has returned thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from registered federal lobbyists since he declared his candidacy in February, his presidential campaign has maintained ties with lobbyists and lobbying firms to help raise some of the $58.9 million he collected through the first six months of 2007. Obama has raised more than $1.4 million from members of law and consultancy firms led by partners who are lobbyists, The Los Angeles Times reported last week. And The Hill, a Washington newspaper, reported earlier this year that Obama's campaign had reached out to lobbyists' networks to use their contacts to help build his fund-raising base.
*sigh* Here I go again, but this time I will try to give you some examples before I illustrate what you are missing when you read that artice, then I will do THAT word for wrd. Ready? Here we go:

1. A "lobbyist" is anyone that petitions the government for any type of legislation, and are acting as representatives of a larger body of people where it would be unlikely that they could all do so on their own. This can be in the form of corporate bodies (like drug companies, oil companies, etc.), to people trying to enact legislation to restrict or expand individual freedoms (the gun lobby, the anti-gun lobby, etc.), to those that are trying to further the interests of the community (wilderness preservation, healthcare, etc.).

2. These articles you guys keep showing say things like this (word for word from above): "maintained ties with lobbyists and lobbying firms". Now, notice that they don't mention what interests (like those covered in #1 above) these lobbyists represented. So if we were to say that they all represented legislation to cut restrictions on Chevron Oils ability to pollute the environment, or another corporations unsafe and unfair employment practices, or some drug companies interest in preventing Americans from buying the same drugs from a cheaper source, then I would say that that is hypocritical.

If you say that the lobbyists represented interests to preserve our wilderness, or your rights to own a firearm, or to make it easier for individuals like you and me to start a business, then I would say that is GOOD.

Wouldn't you?

3. Lobbying is a sales job, like any other. Lobbyists are paid to persuade people. That's their job. Lot's of sales people (and I know plenty of them at many levels) make a LOT of money persuading people to go along with or buy in to things that the salesperson does not personally give one whip about. When sales are down they leave that job and go sell something else that they don't care any more about than the last. It's a job.

Now, lot's of people say they hate lawyers, for example, but who are the first people you are going to call if you are in a legal jam? Now, there are lawyers whose principals are concurrent with yours, and there are those that are not. They are still lawyers.

4. Finally, they keep harping on the fact that he has "retained the services of", which means that he has HIRED them to assist hi campaign. In other words, to help him on the whole lobbying issue and help PERSUADE people. If you need something done and it's really important it is wise to hire the best you can. This is far different than accepting money FROM lobbyists, especially if they lobby for principles with which you profess to disagree.

Do I need to expand on this or be more specific, or can you run with it?
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Old May 6th, 2008, 03:43 PM   #62
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
*sigh* Here I go again, but this time I will try to give you some examples before I illustrate what you are missing when you read that artice, then I will do THAT word for wrd. Ready? Here we go:

1. A "lobbyist" is anyone that petitions the government for any type of legislation, and are acting as representatives of a larger body of people where it would be unlikely that they could all do so on their own. This can be in the form of corporate bodies (like drug companies, oil companies, etc.), to people trying to enact legislation to restrict or expand individual freedoms (the gun lobby, the anti-gun lobby, etc.), to those that are trying to further the interests of the community (wilderness preservation, healthcare, etc.).

2. These articles you guys keep showing say things like this (word for word from above): "maintained ties with lobbyists and lobbying firms". Now, notice that they don't mention what interests (like those covered in #1 above) these lobbyists represented. So if we were to say that they all represented legislation to cut restrictions on Chevron Oils ability to pollute the environment, or another corporations unsafe and unfair employment practices, or some drug companies interest in preventing Americans from buying the same drugs from a cheaper source, then I would say that that is hypocritical.

If you say that the lobbyists represented interests to preserve our wilderness, or your rights to own a firearm, or to make it easier for individuals like you and me to start a business, then I would say that is GOOD.

Wouldn't you?

3. Lobbying is a sales job, like any other. Lobbyists are paid to persuade people. That's their job. Lot's of sales people (and I know plenty of them at many levels) make a LOT of money persuading people to go along with or buy in to things that the salesperson does not personally give one whip about. When sales are down they leave that job and go sell something else that they don't care any more about than the last. It's a job.

Now, lot's of people say they hate lawyers, for example, but who are the first people you are going to call if you are in a legal jam? Now, there are lawyers whose principals are concurrent with yours, and there are those that are not. They are still lawyers.

4. Finally, they keep harping on the fact that he has "retained the services of", which means that he has HIRED them to assist hi campaign. In other words, to help him on the whole lobbying issue and help PERSUADE people. If you need something done and it's really important it is wise to hire the best you can. This is far different than accepting money FROM lobbyists, especially if they lobby for principles with which you profess to disagree.

Do I need to expand on this or be more specific, or can you run with it?

Your talking in circles.
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