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Old April 14th, 2008, 03:07 PM   #1
AGoodBuzz
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Immigration Double Standard

You know, I keep hearing everyone go on and on about illegal aliens, and how our ancestors came here LEGALLY and all, but back then they came in to Ellis Island, they just gave an unverifiable name, it was written down, and they walked in legal to do whatever. All they had to do to become citizens then was learn a few basic factoids about the American history and system and they were citizens. Easy. If it were still that easy alot more people would have done it long ago.

What entitles you to citizenship in this country? Birth. That's it. You didn't do anything special to earn it, and your ancestors that first migrated here didn't have to either, but now you want everyone else to jump thorugh hoops to get it? Most Americans I know don't even know how our governement works, know very little about the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, and the vast majority cannot even name their state senators, let alone their congressperson, or even the Secretary of State. Who is the Attorney General? Can you answer that without googling it?

The children born in this country are citizens, whether they were born 100 years ago, or last night, no matter where their parents were/are from. Your ancestors came to this country to bear and raise U.S. citizens in the land of opportunity. So are the pople doing it now. If it was okay for your ancestors, it should be okay for the newcomers.

Let the flaming begin.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 03:14 PM   #2
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So by that logic, we should let people from all countries in without reguard to our own interests. Nothing has changed around the world in the last 100 years so we should allow the same system of sign your name and recite a few factoids. Sure, why not.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 03:35 PM   #3
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So by that logic, we should let people from all countries in without reguard to our own interests. Nothing has changed around the world in the last 100 years so we should allow the same system of sign your name and recite a few factoids. Sure, why not.
I am not leading that direction at all, I'm simply pointing out that many of the complaints that I hear are a double-standard. Was it wrong that earlier migrants got in so easily? Is it right that even those trying to get in legally invest several years trying and even after jumping through all the hoops still can't?

I'm just trying to get the argument back on an even playing field, that's all.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 06:20 PM   #4
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my biggest problem is they dont pay taxes yet they are allowed to put their kids in our schools, can use our social security benefits and other programs. I have no problem with anyone that wants to become a citazen, go take the test, its not that hard to become a citazen.
When I lived in vegas the illegal mexicans had a protest and had signs that said "no illegal mexicans no burritos" lol. thought that was pretty funny.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 12:07 AM   #5
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I would agree if requiring current immigrants to "jump through hoop" meant that there were fewer allowed. That is not the case. There have been more immigrants come into this country in this decade, which isn't over with, than in any decade previously. Last decade was high than any previous to it. There are more immigrants in the USA right now than at any point on our history. The percentage of immigrants to natural born citizens in higher now than it has been for 80 years.

100 years ago there was open land to settle and farm on, and new factories that needed workers. Now, the new immigrants are either taking jobs currently being done by Americans or ending up on welfare.

I'm not against immigration, but I think were letting them in at such a rate that the system can't absorb them and it's dragging us all down.


Sources:
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...h_research9c29
http://www.cis.org/articles/2007/back1007.html
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Old April 15th, 2008, 12:34 AM   #6
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Perhaps the point is...

Those of our ancestors who came in through Ellis island may have gotten in "easily", becaue the laws back then made it so. But those ancestors followed the law of the land that was in force at the time.

Since then, immigration laws have changed, as have many other laws.

Should not the people entering the US today (or in recent years) be required to comply with present laws?

One of the politically correct terms in common use today, particularly by the media and the liberal politicians, is "undocumented person." It is as if the term "illegal alien" somehow does not apply. Yet the very first act of these individuals upon entering the US was to break the law.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 12:51 AM   #7
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In a sense, our ancestors did get in easily through the immigration laws. In the same sense, they had a horrible time, due to the fact that many came over on ships that were disease-ridden, unsanitary, and deadly. The people of today that immigrate, either legally or illegally, have more humane conditions when it comes to immigration.

I am disgusted at the fact that illegal immigrants are entitled to Social Security benefits because "they have worked in the country and provided a service to the country, regardless of legality." This is bull. Not receiving benefits but being able to stay in the USA should be payment enough for illegally entering the country. My parents, who have worked the past 30+ years in a hole of a job, and who struggled to raise 3 children through tough times, are wondering if Social Security will be there for them when they are ready to retire in 14-16 years, as the company they work for does not have a 30-and-out program. They have ultimately given up the idea of SS benefits, and most likely will work until they cannot physically perform the job, which is downright depressing. Yet, some illegal alien can draw benefits from a source he/she has never paid a single dime into.

Also, as an ending note, illegal immigrants pay no federal or state taxes, unless a consumption sales tax is in place. They have access to schools, health care, etc., all for free or reduced costs. This is completely unfair to anyone legally in the US. It would be like entering a store and purchasing an item, just to find out that the next customer got the same item free because you purchased the first one. Not cool.

Illegal immigrants give legally-admitted immigrants a bad name.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 09:45 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
The children born in this country are citizens, whether they were born 100 years ago, or last night, no matter where their parents were/are from. Your ancestors came to this country to bear and raise U.S. citizens in the land of opportunity. So are the pople doing it now. If it was okay for your ancestors, it should be okay for the newcomers.

Let the flaming begin.
To my knowledge none of the current exportation plans include children born in this country. If a mexican crosses the boarder and pops out a kid, that kid is an american citizen. The parents just have to GTFO of this country. Congratulations. You agree with current and future legislation, so what's your grumble?
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Old April 15th, 2008, 09:54 AM   #9
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The beef I have is it used to be immigrants would come here and strive to be Americans. Now they come here and want to turn our country into thiers and have us cater to THEIR needs. There is NO reason I should have to press 1 for English.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 10:28 AM   #10
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When my parents moved to this country they did something few want to do now. They moved here legally, and they got jobs. They paid thier taxes and bought a home. Then had 5 children that they raised without a fucking dime from the government. My dad worked for the same comapny for 40 years, paying his taxes and social security without ever collecting a fucking dime. Then he died a couple months before he was to retire.

My mom retired after 38 years at the same company.

Neither of them ever pissed and moaned about what the country can do for them. They took responsibility for themselves, and raised 5 kids who have never been to jail, all have earned college degrees, own their own homes and have never taken a fucking dime from the government.

See a difference here?

Did I mention never taking a fucking dime from the government?
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Old April 15th, 2008, 11:27 AM   #11
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This is great. Lot's of great responses!

Okay:

1. Social Security was never intended to be a "retirement fund". It was/is only to be a safety net if the person fell on exceptionally harsh times beyond their control (mental illness, severe disability) and as an enhancement to what they should already have invested and saved, so the argument about retiring on SS is not valid.

2. The comment about nothing being said about making children of immigrants born here having to leave, but the parents need to GTFO, who then takes care of the children (citizens) that remian?

3. The statement that earlier immigrants suffered less humane conditions never lived in South Texas or Southern California. I have. It is horrible what the majority of them go through, and many still end up dead. I don't know where you get your information from.

4. The only reason it is "our country" is because we conquered it. It was originally occupied by the natives which included those that lived in what we now call Mexico. Check your history. We "took it" from them a long time ago, but now you don't think they should try to get some of it back? What if the English nuked us because we forced them out of their own colonies? Would that be right?

5. About the schools, please tell me where there are children that are illegal aliens that are attendingg our schools. I think you are referring to the children BORN HERE that ARE CITIZENS, but their parents are not. Those children are as entitled to those schools as your own because the are citizens. Think about it.

OldSailor made what I believe to be the most important point, and why I started this thread in the first place. The laws currently on the books. Why aren't we enforcing the laws currently on the books (instead of building a stupid wall)? Why aren't we going after employers that are using them? Why aren't we putting in place methods to verify that SS #'s are not being used elsewhere? Why aren't we holding THEM accountable? After all, remove the food and the roaches will leave....

Your thoughts?
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Old April 15th, 2008, 11:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankNBrew View Post
When my parents moved to this country they did something few want to do now. They moved here legally, and they got jobs. They paid thier taxes and bought a home. Then had 5 children that they raised without a fucking dime from the government. My dad worked for the same comapny for 40 years, paying his taxes and social security without ever collecting a fucking dime. Then he died a couple months before he was to retire.

My mom retired after 38 years at the same company.

Neither of them ever pissed and moaned about what the country can do for them. They took responsibility for themselves, and raised 5 kids who have never been to jail, all have earned college degrees, own their own homes and have never taken a fucking dime from the government.

See a difference here?

Did I mention never taking a fucking dime from the government?
x 1,000.

I'm glad someone else shares my thoughts, because I didn't feel like typing a lot.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 11:32 AM   #13
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When my parents moved to this country they did something few want to do now. They moved here legally, and they got jobs. They paid thier taxes and bought a home. Then had 5 children that they raised without a fucking dime from the government. My dad worked for the same comapny for 40 years, paying his taxes and social security without ever collecting a fucking dime. Then he died a couple months before he was to retire.

My mom retired after 38 years at the same company.

Neither of them ever pissed and moaned about what the country can do for them. They took responsibility for themselves, and raised 5 kids who have never been to jail, all have earned college degrees, own their own homes and have never taken a fucking dime from the government.

See a difference here?

Did I mention never taking a fucking dime from the government?

Yes, but did they ever take a fucking dime from the government? Just kidding...

No, you're making a good point, and what is interesting to me is that having lived in California I knew many Mexican families whose parents came here illegally, but their kids grew up going to church, going to school, not getting in trouble, working hard, getting degrees, and contributing to society. Their parents struggled and never took a fucking dime from the government either. Besides that, look how many lazy ass Americans are on welfare and SS and disability and workers comp and all that BS. Detroit seems to be full of them. Pointing at public assistance abuse as a grounds for control of illegal immigration is not adequately narrowed down to be a strong argument. It is far easier for a citizen to abuse the system than it is for an illegal alien. Go to any public assistance office and see how many Mexicans you see there. I'll bet you'll see few, if any.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 11:34 AM   #14
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look how many lazy ass Americans are on welfare. Detroit seems to be full of them.
is that a racist joke? :tonka:


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Originally Posted by amc78cj7 View Post
To my knowledge none of the current exportation plans include children born in this country. If a mexican crosses the boarder and pops out a kid, that kid is an american citizen. The parents just have to GTFO of this country. Congratulations. You agree with current and future legislation, so what's your grumble?
some come to this country just to pop out the kid, since they know the hospitals will deliver them for free...

then if they want they just go back to meh-ico to chill and drink warm beer.

Last edited by Pokerob; April 15th, 2008 at 11:39 AM.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 11:42 AM   #15
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Canada has socialized medicine. So does every other industrialised nation. Mexico does too. They can have their baby delivered at home for free. I've spent time in Mexico. They have good health care and, by the way, dentistry.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 11:42 AM   #16
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is that a racist joke? :tonka:




some come to this country just to pop out the kid, since they know the hospitals will deliver them for free...

then if they want they just go back to meh-ico to chill and drink warm beer.
And everywhere in Mexico I've ever been the beer is cold. It's the senioritas that are warm. Olay!
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Old April 15th, 2008, 11:43 AM   #17
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I've spent time in Mexico. They have good health care and, by the way, dentistry.
one front gold tooth (that is 2x as long) is a good look
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Old April 16th, 2008, 12:41 PM   #18
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Old April 16th, 2008, 03:31 PM   #19
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1. Social Security was never intended to be a "retirement fund". It was/is only to be a safety net if the person fell on exceptionally harsh times beyond their control (mental illness, severe disability) and as an enhancement to what they should already have invested and saved, so the argument about retiring on SS is not valid.
INCORRECT: SS was set up as a supplementary pension not to cover the expenses of all the degnereates.

"As Governor of New York State FDR enacted a law to provide old-age pensions and was ready to extend it nationally. By Executive Order, Roosevelt created the Committee on Economic Security and their recommendations provided the basis for Congress' 1935 Social Security Act. Under the Act, Congress appropriated some funds for the program, but the rest of the money came from a payroll tax. Money was taken out of an employee's paycheck to help pay for Social Security, which in 1937 was about 2% of each paycheck. Older Americans, and later dependents and the disabled were given the money."

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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post

2. The comment about nothing being said about making children of immigrants born here having to leave, but the parents need to GTFO, who then takes care of the children (citizens) that remian?
Not my problem. The kids are citizens in two countries, the parents are not. Parents can always decide to bring their kids back to Mexico with them.

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3. The statement that earlier immigrants suffered less humane conditions never lived in South Texas or Southern California. I have. It is horrible what the majority of them go through, and many still end up dead. I don't know where you get your information from.
Read it!
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Old April 16th, 2008, 07:13 PM   #20
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my biggest problem is they dont pay taxes yet they are allowed to put their kids in our schools, can use our social security benefits and other programs. I have no problem with anyone that wants to become a citazen, go take the test, its not that hard to become a citazen.
When I lived in vegas the illegal mexicans had a protest and had signs that said "no illegal mexicans no burritos" lol. thought that was pretty funny.
Illegals do pay taxes if they are lawfully employed. They do not reap the benefits, however, of social security benefits upon retirement. Perhaps this little article may get people thinking about why the Government is moving so slowly to kick out the illegals....

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...ntstaxes_N.htm
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