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Old April 4th, 2008, 02:52 PM   #141
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Well, the Mormon's follow what was said by Joseph Smith, Jr., and he claimed to have been talked to by god.......... they are willing to be persecuted, tortured and die for their beliefs......

I was specifically speaking towards the very people that walked side by side in the very early days of Jesus. I'm not referring to people that were later convinced to faith, but yet believe it as is the case of modern day radical islamic extremists, or modern day Christian-claimed-tobe-abortionclinic bombers that would glady take a police bullet as a sign of martyrdom.

Mr Smith, nor any of his individual side-by-side followers were persecuted (to my admitedly limited knowledge of the subject, and if they were it can't compare to the efforts of a world dominating power like Rome to stamp it out) Mr. Smith's own teachings also attempt to cite, and incorporate existing long standing theistic basis which no doubt helped convince some of his followers.

I will concede that the same could be said of Jesus' knowledge and application of same of Jewish Law, customs and Old Testament Prophesy.

As for questioning the word, you are dangerously close to putting words into others mouths. I for one continue to struggle with the what level of faith to put into words written by man's hand, regardless of text.

My point about the "faith attributed to" scientific based text was a lighthearted jab at Mike's continued conspiracy theory that organized Christian Church/Movements/Catholic Church somehow have managed to edit/obscure/fashion today's Christian faith.

Even if I weren't well enough versed in the peer review process, I'm sure hundreds of your peers would have jumped in to point it out...

That being said, sometimes that peer review is all too carelessly performed, and not only does it end up being published in the trades, but the mass market media gets ahold of it, and it virtually becomes "fact" very rapidly these days...
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Old April 4th, 2008, 02:53 PM   #142
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something that most are missing that these people belive that their child would be healed by faith and a group of religionous bible studying people where putting pressure apond them to belive that god would answer if their faith was strong enough. So here is a point that would be like Jim Jones and his followers. They belived in his teachingand die because of it ( yes some didn't die ) But there are people out there that still see everything has writen ! God gave us a great mind to understand things for are selves. Now are we going to use it to do good or are we going to use it do wrong? I'm not going to prove something is right or wrong within the bible or any religion . The basic of most religions are all the same it's the rest is all screwed up. So now I have put my two cents worth in.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 02:56 PM   #143
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buzz:

your statement about judeo christians being a small percentage of the world faith would appear to not be supported by peer review:

from wiki:


#ReligionNumber of Adherents Remarks[2]

1Christianity2 billion Has the most followers and most widespread presence of all well-recognized religions. Predominant religion in Europe, the Americas, Southern Africa, Oceania, and the Philippines.

2Islam

1.2 billion A widespread religion with many countries majority Muslim, particularly in the Middle East, South Asia, Maritime Southeast Asia, Central Asia, North Africa, West Africa and some parts of Eastern Europe.

3Hinduism828 millionUmbrella *snip*
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Old April 4th, 2008, 03:06 PM   #144
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My religion IS REAL. My god is an Indian who turns into a wolf.
I thought it was a fish that turned into a monkey.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 03:07 PM   #145
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something that most are missing that these people belive that their child would be healed by faith and a group of religionous bible studying people where putting pressure apond them to belive that god would answer if their faith was strong enough. So here is a point that would be like Jim Jones and his followers. They belived in his teachingand die because of it ( yes some didn't die ) But there are people out there that still see everything has writen ! God gave us a great mind to understand things for are selves. Now are we going to use it to do good or are we going to use it do wrong? I'm not going to prove something is right or wrong within the bible or any religion . The basic of most religions are all the same it's the rest is all screwed up. So now I have put my two cents worth in.
hi, welcome to the thread a little bit late. :p

the link cited by sova, is from the yellowjournalistic, media/advertising pushing, agenda pushing fox news, and cites an interview of police sources, not the accused. Mike (and others) then make inferences as to full scope of the parent's beliefs, and apparently their medical expertiese, and full knowledge of the little girl's condition. If anyone takes the time to look up the symptoms of her presumed ailment, they are often associated with other maladies. And don't get me started on how often professionals misdiagnose simple ailments. My very own malignant cancer was diagnosed initially as a gangeleon cyst... An article last week referenced a surgical center that removed the healthy kidney and left the cancerous one intact in some poor victim...

had mike posted a less inflammatory message mentioning that bad things happen in the name of religion this thread would have been 1 post long. he instead chose to take a different tact.

similarily you don't see people posting: "atheism killed millions" and attempting to correlate stalin's agenda's with all athiests...

what you have here, is a few of us with some boredom, and time to kill either at home, between jobs, between classes, or at work whilst babysitting database processes that like to banter at each other.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 03:20 PM   #146
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I was specifically speaking towards the very people that walked side by side in the very early days of Jesus. I'm not referring to people that were later convinced to faith, but yet believe it as is the case of modern day radical islamic extremists, or modern day Christian-claimed-tobe-abortionclinic bombers that would glady take a police bullet as a sign of martyrdom.

Mr Smith, nor any of his individual side-by-side followers were persecuted (to my admitedly limited knowledge of the subject, and if they were it can't compare to the efforts of a world dominating power like Rome to stamp it out) Mr. Smith's own teachings also attempt to cite, and incorporate existing long standing theistic basis which no doubt helped convince some of his followers.

I will concede that the same could be said of Jesus' knowledge and application of same of Jewish Law, customs and Old Testament Prophesy.

As for questioning the word, you are dangerously close to putting words into others mouths. I for one continue to struggle with the what level of faith to put into words written by man's hand, regardless of text.

My point about the "faith attributed to" scientific based text was a lighthearted jab at Mike's continued conspiracy theory that organized Christian Church/Movements/Catholic Church somehow have managed to edit/obscure/fashion today's Christian faith.

Even if I weren't well enough versed in the peer review process, I'm sure hundreds of your peers would have jumped in to point it out...

That being said, sometimes that peer review is all too carelessly performed, and not only does it end up being published in the trades, but the mass market media gets ahold of it, and it virtually becomes "fact" very rapidly these days...
As for your first paragraph, all of the religions had side-by-side folowers at one time, so that is not valid. Besides, you believe yourself to be a right-thining-christian... So did the bomber. So did Hitler. There are plenty of Christians that would think that you are NOT right. You put them down as some other messed up sect and that you are the one that's right. They say the same about you.

As for the second paragraph, that same dominating worl power (Rome) is now trying to rule the world WITH Christianity.

As for your third, you yourself just proved my point. You "continue to struggle with the what level of faith to put into", but I don't hear you ever saying that you should doubt whether or not to put ANY. You presuppose that you SHOULD, but question HOW MUCH. Not being objective.

Your fifth.... Huh?

The sixth, I restate what I said before that sometimes those peers are those that are hell bent to discredit you.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 03:21 PM   #147
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Then of course there's all those people that follow some guy named mohammed.... Well, I guess you get my point, but because you do you'll get all pissed off and say that those are 'different'....
Is that little animal a sheep? It kinda looks like a camel on my screen. The goof politicians you mentioned didn't include J.F.K, Linclon, F.D.R., Tojo, or any other politician that had a selfserving agenda as they all do and did. I don't think any of them are capable of doing anything has hint of what a truly religious person would try to do. You can put J.F.K. and Jimmy Carter in the same catagory as Nixon, Saddam, and Stolin there all the same.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 03:34 PM   #148
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buzz:

your statement about judeo christians being a small percentage of the world faith would appear to not be supported by peer review:

from wiki:


#ReligionNumber of Adherents Remarks[2]

1Christianity2 billion Has the most followers and most widespread presence of all well-recognized religions. Predominant religion in Europe, the Americas, Southern Africa, Oceania, and the Philippines.

2Islam

1.2 billion A widespread religion with many countries majority Muslim, particularly in the Middle East, South Asia, Maritime Southeast Asia, Central Asia, North Africa, West Africa and some parts of Eastern Europe.

3Hinduism828 millionUmbrella *snip*
And also according to wiki, the world's population is over 6 billion (almost 7), so christians are only a third. Small percentage. Not the majority of the world.

Thanks for proving me right.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 03:37 PM   #149
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hi, welcome to the thread a little bit late. :p

the link cited by sova, is from the yellowjournalistic, media/advertising pushing, agenda pushing fox news, and cites an interview of police sources, not the accused. Mike (and others) then make inferences as to full scope of the parent's beliefs, and apparently their medical expertiese, and full knowledge of the little girl's condition. If anyone takes the time to look up the symptoms of her presumed ailment, they are often associated with other maladies. And don't get me started on how often professionals misdiagnose simple ailments. My very own malignant cancer was diagnosed initially as a gangeleon cyst... An article last week referenced a surgical center that removed the healthy kidney and left the cancerous one intact in some poor victim...

had mike posted a less inflammatory message mentioning that bad things happen in the name of religion this thread would have been 1 post long. he instead chose to take a different tact.

similarily you don't see people posting: "atheism killed millions" and attempting to correlate stalin's agenda's with all athiests...

what you have here, is a few of us with some boredom, and time to kill either at home, between jobs, between classes, or at work whilst babysitting database processes that like to banter at each other.
What you fail to point out is that the fox network pushes in our face people that hate atheists, liberals and gays. Ever listen to any of the talk shows on fox network (radio included)? They are the most right wing network of them all and they brag about it, so if there's any fact in your assertion that they are pushing an agenda, as they brag they are, then they are clearly attacking an act by the someone in the religion they so strongly endorse.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 03:39 PM   #150
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And also according to wiki, the world's population is over 6 billion (almost 7), so christians are only a third. Small percentage. Not the majority of the world.

Thanks for proving me right.
It's awsome to see both of you manipulate statistics to support your claim. Bravo I commend your skills. You have changed world faith into world population, not the same thing. And Ryebread, while Christianity might have the largest amount of members as single group it dosen't mean they are a large percentage of the total of ALL religious groups (although I think they are) you have shown them to be 50% of three groups but did not include all religious groups or how Christians fair in that setting.

Last edited by Mr Toes - R.I.P.; April 4th, 2008 at 03:46 PM.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 03:40 PM   #151
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I will concede that the same could be said of Jesus' knowledge and application of same of Jewish Law, customs and Old Testament Prophesy.
At least you are willing to concede to a POSSIBILITY that differs from your BELIEFS. That is a HUGE leap that too many are unwilling to take (Mr. Toes).



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Old April 4th, 2008, 03:43 PM   #152
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mike for every Fosil plan there is there is a upset that dis proves it, so to argue God vrs sicence is dumb, you belive what you belive and we'll belive what we do, or your can explain it till your blue in the face becasue there are no TRUE proves on either side only belives.....
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Old April 4th, 2008, 03:43 PM   #153
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It's awsome to see both of you manipulate statistics to support your claim. Bravo I commend your skills. You have changed world faith into world population, not the same thing.
Then you didn't read the posts and instead did your typical bias infused scan of the many multisyllabic words on the screen then threw out some derogatory drivel. Mr. Toes, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.




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Old April 4th, 2008, 03:49 PM   #154
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mike for every Fosil plan there is there is a upset that dis proves it, so to argue God vrs sicence is dumb, you belive what you belive and we'll belive what we do, or your can explain it till your blue in the face becasue there are no TRUE proves on either side only belives.....


How can you even say that there's no proof in the scientific community? You are either completely ignorant or in utter denial. For example, it can be scientifically proven that water freezes at 32 degrees f. Would say that that is incorrect? Would you call that (as Mr. Toes might) another of sciences lies? I can give you many more examples to make all of you Christians that say science has no proof look awfully STUPID. Go ahead and challenge me to do so. Go ahead. Make my day.




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Old April 4th, 2008, 03:59 PM   #155
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Then you didn't read the posts and instead did your typical bias infused scan of the many multisyllabic words on the screen then threw out some derogatory drivel. Mr. Toes, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.




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THe part about Ryebread not showing all religions didn't print. But his came through all right.

Quote from Ryebread post

your statement about judeo christians being a small percentage of the world faith would appear to not be supported by peer review:

Notice the part that says WORLD FAITH

Quote from Goodbuzz post


And also according to wiki, the world's population is over 6 billion (almost 7), so christians are only a third. Small percentage. Not the majority of the world.

Notice the part that says WORLDS POPULATION

NOT THE SAME THING



Thanks for proving me right
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Old April 4th, 2008, 04:03 PM   #156
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How can you even say that there's no proof in the scientific community? You are either completely ignorant or in utter denial. For example, it can be scientifically proven that water freezes at 32 degrees f. Would say that that is incorrect? Would you call that (as Mr. Toes might) another of sciences lies? I can give you many more examples to make all of you Christians that say science has no proof look awfully STUPID. Go ahead and challenge me to do so. Go ahead. Make my day.




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I can argue that, salt water has a different freezing point and altitude effects freezing as well as a host of other things, lying science is wrong again God makes it freeze when he wants. LOL
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Old April 4th, 2008, 04:10 PM   #157
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How can you even say that there's no proof in the scientific community? You are either completely ignorant or in utter denial. For example, it can be scientifically proven that water freezes at 32 degrees f. Would say that that is incorrect? Would you call that (as Mr. Toes might) another of sciences lies? I can give you many more examples to make all of you Christians that say science has no proof look awfully STUPID. Go ahead and challenge me to do so. Go ahead. Make my day.




The Phantoms Evil Twin likes Clint Eastwood.

What science has proven to date regarding evolution can be used to support Genisis, since there remains the missing link this would lend itself to support the creation of man as the bible describes, all of a sudden. There is no link between man and whatever in fossil history. There should be some type of gradual transistion instead of heres a monkey and now heres a man.







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Old April 4th, 2008, 04:21 PM   #158
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What you fail to point out is that the fox network pushes in our face people that hate atheists, liberals and gays. Ever listen to any of the talk shows on fox network (radio included)? They are the most right wing network of them all and they brag about it, so if there's any fact in your assertion that they are pushing an agenda, as they brag they are, then they are clearly attacking an act by the someone in the religion they so strongly endorse.
yeah, i thought that was weird.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 04:52 PM   #159
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And also according to wiki, the world's population is over 6 billion (almost 7), so christians are only a third. Small percentage. Not the majority of the world.

Thanks for proving me right.
1/3 of an entire population is a small percentage? in all of my 20+ years being employed in the field of statistics that's a first... you incorrectly assert I prove your point on that particular regard especially...

my commute home, and pending dinner interrupted my replies temporarily.

as for the peer review. answer me this if you can. is there any possibility that the entire peer review process while logical, and standing to reason itself is flawed?

can you conceive of the possibility that it in and of itself is self-correcting, and/or flawed in anyway?

do you have so much faith in the scientific process, and those of man-made review, that you out of practice dismiss any theory, or fact not supported by same?

you indicated we that profess faith don't do "due diligence" by automatically not doubting the word. due diligence? have you personally done your due diligence to personally verify that each and every scientific theory that you base your world surroundings, and beliefs upon is valid?

of course not. therefor it would be a bit more open minded of you to concede that some of us don't have it "all figured out"...

you also stated in that particular post that "it helps" for the scientist to doubt the theory in order to adequately prove it.

funny, from what I recall of various courses, one is supposed to propose hypothesis antithesis without any subjective pro/con feeling towards it... in fact in the field of statistical analysis one runs the model time and again with various hypothesis tests over and over again to make sure that one's individual bias, or preferential opinion do not lead one to a premature conclusion.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 04:54 PM   #160
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What you fail to point out is that the fox network pushes in our face people that hate atheists, liberals and gays. Ever listen to any of the talk shows on fox network (radio included)? They are the most right wing network of them all and they brag about it, so if there's any fact in your assertion that they are pushing an agenda, as they brag they are, then they are clearly attacking an act by the someone in the religion they so strongly endorse.
what on earth does that have to do with anything? I stated that fox news is yellow journalism, that (much like you) likes to stir things up. they may have different motives, but at least we agree they aren't credible in their efforts at reporting the news...
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