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Old April 2nd, 2008, 09:37 AM   #61
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I don't know what is after life, probably just dirt...

what does that have to do with valuing life? If anything it would make life MORE valuable.
how so? in terms of what? any more or less valuable than any other life on the planet?

if we are soul-less, we're just basically animals looking to procreate based completely on our instincts...
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 09:43 AM   #62
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how so? in terms of what? any more or less valuable than any other life on the planet?

if we are soul-less, we're just basically animals looking to procreate based completely on our instincts...
are you disputing the fact that humans are animals?
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 09:50 AM   #63
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are you disputing the fact that humans are animals?
not at all. but now that you mention it, what allows you to behave in a fashion inconsistent with your basic instinctual needs? why aren't you out dry humping anything that walks around? (or do you?)

to quote yourself - "you want to bury your face in someone's honey pot but want to carry on a conversation as well"

why? instinctively you are programmed to spread your seed far and wide...


oh, but back to the question, what makes the human life more or less valuable than any other animal? are you non-theist, self-acknowledged animals now asserting that a cow, a dog, or a goat has the same value as your neighbor, brother, child, mother, father?
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 09:57 AM   #64
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So far in this thread, all I read is that Mikesova found an example of an idiot. And from this example, he is making a widespread statement that all religions (especially Jesus freaks per his post) are not harmless.

I would actually agree. Religion is not harmless. It carries extreme importance and to many people is worth giving their life over. To say that its harmless is a foolish thought.

But I'll poss this question to you Mikesova, are athiests less harmful? Between Stalin and Mao Zedong, two of the world's most predominate athiest leaders, more than 60 Million people lost their lives (low estimate, some say 100 million).

I think all that you have recognized is that men are evil and screwed up when left to their own device. At least religion, and I would even argue, only Christianity provide a logical answer and the ability to escape from the natural bonds of evil (sin).
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 10:00 AM   #65
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how so? in terms of what? any more or less valuable than any other life on the planet?

if we are soul-less, we're just basically animals looking to procreate based completely on our instincts...
I believe, that agnostics and atheist value their life more, because it is the only chance you get. Christians think they get everlasting life in heaven, Hindu's think they get another chance through reincarnation...

I pose this question to you, why do you value your life so much on Earth? Why not be a major risk taker? You're going to go to heaven and get everlasting life, why not go bungie jumping or cliff diving or jump out of an airplane, wrestle sharks, etc. get saved and drive 150 mPH on the freeway...
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 10:04 AM   #66
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I pose this question to you, why do you value your life so much on Earth? Why not be a major risk taker? You're going to go to heaven and get everlasting life, why not go bungie jumping or cliff diving or jump out of an airplane, wrestle sharks, etc. get saved and drive 150 mPH on the freeway...
I'm "saved" and I do as much of this stuff as possible!

Haven't wrestled sharks yet though. To quote one of the greatest movie lines from Braveheart "All men die, but few men really live!"
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 10:31 AM   #67
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But I'll poss this question to you Mikesova, are athiests less harmful? Between Stalin and Mao Zedong, two of the world's most predominate athiest leaders, more than 60 Million people lost their lives (low estimate, some say 100 million).
Did Stalin and Mao kill in the name of Atheism? I don't think anyone has.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 10:48 AM   #68
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I believe, that agnostics and atheist value their life more, because it is the only chance you get. Christians think they get everlasting life in heaven, Hindu's think they get another chance through reincarnation...

I pose this question to you, why do you value your life so much on Earth? Why not be a major risk taker? You're going to go to heaven and get everlasting life, why not go bungie jumping or cliff diving or jump out of an airplane, wrestle sharks, etc. get saved and drive 150 mPH on the freeway...
to answer the question I really think you are asking, no I don't really have any fears. I do cherish every day for the gift that it is however.

I have bungee jumped from the gauley bridge. I have white water rafted and kayaked on many of the rivers out east. I have also cliff dived off of summersville point in the gualey basin (about a 90' freefall)

my car won't go 150 mph, I have however seen that speed in a 750 cc crotch rocket on deserted two lane roads around Commerce Township in my youth.

edit: it was a 750 cc bike now that I think about it, and I do have to confess there's a chance it was speedometer error (it wasn't my bike)
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 10:50 AM   #69
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Did Stalin and Mao kill in the name of Atheism? I don't think anyone has.
by volume of murdered innocents the statement significantly diminishes the validity of the incorrect assertion that "99% of wars" or "99% of genocides" are religious based...
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 11:54 AM   #70
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Did Stalin and Mao kill in the name of Atheism? I don't think anyone has.
I would argue that their belief in no moral absolute allowed them to place no value on human life. They were able to objectify their victims because they viewed them as soul less animals. No value because according to them there was no God.

And to correct you, they did kill in the name of communism, which is associated with godlessness.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 11:58 AM   #71
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I would argue that their belief in no moral absolute allowed them to place no value on human life. They were able to objectify their victims because they viewed them as soul less animals. No value because according to them there was no God.

And to correct you, they did kill in the name of communism, which is associated with godlessness.
well, that's your opinion. I don't believe morality requires religion. I'm sure most atheists and agnostics can tell you that. I love it when Christians ask "why don't you rob a bank or do bad things?" Then I ask them if the only reason they don't, is their vengeful god?

and

well, 4 wheeling is associated with rednecks who love Nascar and beat their wives, can this association lead to causation?
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 12:18 PM   #72
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well, 4 wheeling is associated with rednecks who love Nascar and beat their wives, can this association lead to causation?
hypocritical doncha think? you attempt to relate, or correlate violence as religious based as a causal factor - e.g. religion causes harm, religion caused 99% of the wars, and then in that same breath state the above?!?
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 01:40 PM   #73
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hypocritical doncha think? you attempt to relate, or correlate violence as religious based as a causal factor - e.g. religion causes harm, religion caused 99% of the wars, and then in that same breath state the above?!?
the people killed their child BECAUSE of their religious belief! They claimed she died because they didn't have enough faith. Their religion, however small, is the CAUSE of their actions which led to her death.

Driving a 4x4 doesn't cause someone to beat their wife, nor does being atheist cause you to kill people, but these people's religious beliefs caused their actions.

I never stated that religion caused 99% of all wars, i'm pretty sure that is a made up statistic.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 01:46 PM   #74
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the people killed their child BECAUSE of their religious belief! They claimed she died because they didn't have enough faith. Their religion, however small, is the CAUSE of their actions which led to her death.

Driving a 4x4 doesn't cause someone to beat their wife, nor does being atheist cause you to kill people, but these people's religious beliefs caused their actions.

I never stated that religion caused 99% of all wars, i'm pretty sure that is a made up statistic.
my objection to your causation vs. correlation extends well beyond this thread. you have quite the history of attacking religious faith, and/or attempting to prove a causation between religion and "bad things".

in this instant case, as others have pointed out, you found a nutjob and are attempting to use that to support the assertions about your vendetta about religion.

I could just as easily point out that "the system" cause her death as social services didn't intervene as they have in countless other examples and just as easily could have delayed her death...

we all die. one can't prevent it, only possibly delay it, or hasten it.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 02:18 PM   #75
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I don't know what is after life, probably just dirt...

what does that have to do with valuing life? If anything it would make life MORE valuable.
Abortion???
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 02:22 PM   #76
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Abortion???
can we change your name to Mr. Abortion? To me, i don't like abortion, so I don't plan on getting one, but it's legal, and I am ok with it. You're not killing a baby, you're aborting a fetus.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 02:25 PM   #77
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Did Stalin and Mao kill in the name of Atheism? I don't think anyone has.
Yes scientists have proven this . It's the therory of Maostalinko. It's based on some letters written by both men, these letters don't actually say anything but the therory is someday the missing link, oh sorry, letter will be found so it's obvious it's true.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 02:29 PM   #78
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Yes scientists have proven this . It's the therory of Maostalinko. It's based on some letters written by both men, these letters don't actually say anything but the therory is someday the missing link, oh sorry, letter will be found so it's obvious it's true.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 02:34 PM   #79
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I believe, that agnostics and atheist value their life more, because it is the only chance you get. Christians think they get everlasting life in heaven, Hindu's think they get another chance through reincarnation...

I pose this question to you, why do you value your life so much on Earth? Why not be a major risk taker? You're going to go to heaven and get everlasting life, why not go bungie jumping or cliff diving or jump out of an airplane, wrestle sharks, etc. get saved and drive 150 mPH on the freeway...
I'm going to answer your question from my Christian point of view. I value my life because it is a gift from God. Being a major risk taker is too opinionated to catagorize, the things you mention are tame to me but might sound extreme to someone else. Being stupid with your life because you are saved is still being stupid.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 02:40 PM   #80
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can we change your name to Mr. Abortion? To me, i don't like abortion, so I don't plan on getting one, but it's legal, and I am ok with it. You're not killing a baby, you're aborting a fetus.
I'm O.K.with that.
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