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Old April 3rd, 2006, 10:10 PM   #21
KaiserJeep
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I did not say your "pa" did anything. I who ever it was, it was not legal. Come on out to the trail clean up and we will help you learn more about the trail systems and the rules assoicated, including those regarding camping, alcohol consumption, etc.
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Old April 3rd, 2006, 10:31 PM   #22
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Default I grew up in Whitehall

I also know the laws pretty well.
Let me know where you were wheelin and I can let you know if you're legal. Is it NFS land, State, or County Unimproved Roads?

REMEMBER: In the eyes of the DNR, if you're spinning your tires on dirt, sand, mud ,hills, etc. you are (in thier eyes) "CREATING AN EROSIVE CONDITION" and CAN be sited!
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Old April 3rd, 2006, 10:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail_Fanatic
I also know the laws pretty well.
Let me know where you were wheelin and I can let you know if you're legal. Is it NFS land, State, or County Unimproved Roads?

REMEMBER: In the eyes of the DNR, if you're spinning your tires on dirt, sand, mud ,hills, etc. you are (in thier eyes) "CREATING AN EROSIVE CONDITION" and CAN be sited!

haha, i wish i could rememeber a quarter of the places we were at...would make it a lot easier for a return trip...
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Old April 3rd, 2006, 10:42 PM   #24
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REMEMBER: In the eyes of the DNR, if you're spinning your tires on dirt, sand, mud ,hills, etc. you are (in thier eyes) "CREATING AN EROSIVE CONDITION" and CAN be sited!


Isn't that just a kick in the guess in the dnr's eyes we all should just go 2 mph down a trail, stop along the way and hug a few trees huh? I never knew they were that bad!
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Old April 3rd, 2006, 10:52 PM   #25
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Don't you memorize each trail as you go down it? LOL

Seriously though,
Federal law applies to federal land (NFS), State law applies to State land, and County Road law applies to unimproved and seasonal roads, so you have to know where you are before you can try to figure out if you're legal and which set of rules apply.
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Old April 3rd, 2006, 11:09 PM   #26
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those were first time for most of us there ..the guy that organized the trip
have scoutted ,get permission ,and talk to dnr ..dnr told him to stay out certain place which he mention duing the trip.. mike was right some of those built zuki
that sidehilling because there were trails there before them , we drove all over the place i couldn't even back track or remember where all the trails were either ..only one i remember was pinepoint that's because been there twice.

Last edited by tracker; April 4th, 2006 at 08:30 PM.
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Old April 3rd, 2006, 11:26 PM   #27
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I was just on the 2006 Spring Ride site looking at the pics there.
I recognize the hill in the pictures with captions:
"Mike, I think you need bigger tires . . ." and
"Sammy and his dad climb onto. . ."
Clibing the side of the hill llike that is WAY ILLEGAL!
That is EXACTLY what ends up getting trails CLOSED to us!
Firetower hill in Crystal Valey is a perfect example.
10-15 years ago there was only ONE climb going up it, today there are 10 at least! As a result the Decision Order was signed by Chris Fredrics of the Baldwin Ranger District last year that it WILL BE CLOSED.
Just because someone else in the past broke the law and drove off the ORIGINAL trail doesn't make it right for everyone that follows after.
If someone breaks into a liquor store and leaves the door open does thta mean it's OK for me to go in ?

In light of recent news coverage of people getting in legal trouble over postings on the web it might be a good idea to pull some of those pics until you're SURE of where you were and what's legal there.

Remember, I'm pullin for ya,
We're all in this together. (Red Green)

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Old April 3rd, 2006, 11:37 PM   #28
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Believe me, NONE of us like the current laws. The problem? NO ONE is DOING anything about it!
I know the Two Trackers 4WD Club is trying to fight the NFS, Great Lakes 4WD Assn is trying to fight the DNR, and United 4WD Assn is trying to fight the feds, other than that I haven't seen anyone else (from the fullsized crowd) at the meetings!
GET INVOVED, JOIN A CLUB, preferably one that stands up and fights for our sport!
Come to the Clean Up and meet the Two Trackers and help them in their battle for the day.

Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; April 4th, 2006 at 06:38 AM.
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Old April 4th, 2006, 07:18 AM   #29
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Well said Pat!!!! (Trail_Fanatic)
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Old April 4th, 2006, 11:18 AM   #30
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Don't get me wrong! There most certainly ARE places in Michigan where it's perfectly legal to spin your wheels, BUT they're DESIGNATED for that use. Places like Silver Lake, the Mounds, and any DESIGNATED ORV ROUTE. Notice I said route, NOT trail. On State land "trail" means that it's only DESIGNATED for use by vehicles LESS than 50" (inches) wide.
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Old April 4th, 2006, 11:50 AM   #31
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wel thanks i'll past this on to others .
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Old April 4th, 2006, 01:44 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail_Fanatic
Believe me, NONE of us like the current laws. The problem? NO ONE is DOING anything about it!
I know the Two Trackers 4WD Club is trying to fight the NFS, Great Lakes 4WD Assn is trying to fight the DNR, and United 4WD Assn is trying to fight the feds, other than that I haven't seen anyone else (from the fullsized crowd) at the meetings!
GET INVOVED, JOIN A CLUB, preferably one that stands up and fights for our sport!
Come to the Clean Up and meet the Two Trackers and help them in their battle for the day.
Well said Pat.....get involved people simple enough.
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Old April 4th, 2006, 04:33 PM   #33
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I am glad to see that nobody is taking offense to what Pat is saying, he is not trying to parent but rather educate. I hope everyone continues to take it that way!

Sincerely,
Pat Kinne
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Old April 4th, 2006, 05:03 PM   #34
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THE Pat Kinne?
AH-HA! You ARE on here! Jim M. too?
Yours is a name I've herd MANY times in the "INVOLVED" circles!
Please allow me to take this semi-public opportunity to THANK YOU for all of the work you have done and are doing on OUR behalf!! I hope we'll get the chance to meet some time.
to you SIR!

ALL you other "newbies" - here's one of the great minds 'in the know' in Michigan!
Thanks for the back up too, I can get a little preachy.
It's just that it's SOOOOOO hard to keep anything open these days.

Pat Brower

Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; April 4th, 2006 at 05:09 PM.
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Old April 4th, 2006, 05:19 PM   #35
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You the man Pat Brower! Thanks for the leadership and education.

umm....both Pats

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Old April 4th, 2006, 08:38 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman
I am glad to see that nobody is taking offense to what Pat is saying, he is not trying to parent but rather educate. I hope everyone continues to take it that way!

Sincerely,
Pat Kinne
i totaly agree what he said ..most of us know that it's illegal to sidehill or dig up dirt in 2wd.. but many still do it and yes we all need to get involve
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Old April 4th, 2006, 08:58 PM   #37
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yeh i am a little fresh to the rules. i used to wheel in alegan woods with my dad like 15-20 nyears ago and things r way different than they used to be. seems like every were u go nowdays u run int that sweet piece of guardrail that says no vehicles. so yeh id like to get involved. is ther anything mor local to west michigan?
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Old April 4th, 2006, 11:35 PM   #38
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this what the guy that lead and organized the trip have say after i linked this post to him..
http://www.zukiworld.com/forum/index.php?action=pm
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Old April 4th, 2006, 11:43 PM   #39
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Well I'd like to apologise to MIKESOVA - I didn't intend to 'take over' his posting. I just want US, as wheelers, to be careful of what we post and more importantly DO.
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Old April 4th, 2006, 11:44 PM   #40
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Linky no worky Might just wanna put what he said in here.
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