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Old March 27th, 2008, 11:15 AM   #1
Kodiak450r
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Default 1" square or 1" round?

which is stronger. soon i'm going to be building a new frame for my gokart and would like to know which is stronger. 1" square stock or 1" round pipe? not sure how thick i wanna go yet maybe .125 wall. square is alot easier for me to weld so i'm leaning twards that right now. any input would be helpful as i'm not much of a fabricator
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Old March 27th, 2008, 11:16 AM   #2
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round.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 11:21 AM   #3
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how much is the diffrence? like significant or will it not really matter much?
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Old March 27th, 2008, 11:23 AM   #4
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just use square since it sounds like that is what your going to use no matter what anyone says..
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Old March 27th, 2008, 11:24 AM   #5
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for a normal gocart i would go with square. something thats going to do huge jumps and go real fast, round.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 11:34 AM   #6
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alright. i'll probably build the frame from round tube, but i'm designing my own front suspension setup similar to that of a dune buggy being long travel equal length control arms with a coil over shock setup. i'd like to use square for that because i can mount the bushings in it easier.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 11:38 AM   #7
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It depends on the direction its being loaded in, but in 'normal' orientation, square is stronger than round, for bending.

0.125 wall is overkill for a go kart.
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Old March 27th, 2008, 11:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
It depends on the direction its being loaded in, but in 'normal' orientation, square is stronger than round, for bending.

0.125 wall is overkill for a go kart.
what size would you reccomend? like i said idk much about fabrication or steel for that matter. this kart will eventually be powered by a yamaha warrior 350 engine and have full suspension and i will put it through some hell so i want it to withstand the abuse and not crack the frame. my frame is cracked badly in the front and have had to reweld it 2 times already.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 07:48 AM   #9
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Use round tube to build it. check to see what materials the tube is made from, you want to be sure its structual tubing, not non-structual like gas pipe/conduit ect.
Use 0.125 for the main chassis, and 0.095 for the non-structual parts.
Use gussets to help with load handling.
If you can, use a bender rather than cutting and welding.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 08:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak450r View Post
alright. i'll probably build the frame from round tube, but i'm designing my own front suspension setup similar to that of a dune buggy being long travel equal length control arms with a coil over shock setup. i'd like to use square for that because i can mount the bushings in it easier.

ideally you want unequal length arms, with proper geometry it will keep the contact patch of the tire square to the gound while the chassis leans. look up trophy trucks and class 1 cars for examples.

if you are going to actually go through with making a chassis and you want it to hold up you might as well make it correctly so you are satisfied with the results.
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Old March 28th, 2008, 08:07 AM   #11
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I Would Use Round Tube Much Better!
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Old March 28th, 2008, 09:22 AM   #12
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i would use PVC and then fill it with rebar and cement
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Old March 28th, 2008, 06:41 PM   #13
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x2 add duck tape
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Old May 7th, 2008, 06:29 PM   #14
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Id build the base frame from flat stock, its alot easier to weld to, then the cage and rest of the body in round. stronger torsional rigidity. happy wheeling.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 05:22 PM   #15
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I'll probably have a lot of people go against what I say, but I would honestly check into 3/4" pipe which is approximately 1 1/8" O.D. (you can find a chart online, pipe diameters are never exactly what they say they are, inside or out). It will be thicker, cheaper. The downside is that it has a welded seam unlike round tubing and is not rated as structural but rather as a pressure vessel. Although square tubing will also have a weld seam, and some round does unless it is labeled D.O.M. (Drawn Over Mandrel). For a roll cage, no way. For a go-kart on the cheap, I'd say why not. You may find it's a little heavier than what you need but if the extra weight is not an issue I really don't think you'd have problems building a go-kart with it.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 05:27 PM   #16
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P.S. if you do end up going with pipe or seamed tubing, try to keep the seam in the inside of your bends. We use pipe for several non-structural parts and have great success with it, and it saves money. If you want to "do it right" though, go with D.O.M. tubing, it's very high quality steel.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 06:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nates4x4 View Post
I'll probably have a lot of people go against what I say, but I would honestly check into 3/4" pipe which is approximately 1 1/8" O.D. (you can find a chart online, pipe diameters are never exactly what they say they are, inside or out). It will be thicker, cheaper. The downside is that it has a welded seam unlike round tubing and is not rated as structural but rather as a pressure vessel. Although square tubing will also have a weld seam, and some round does unless it is labeled D.O.M. (Drawn Over Mandrel). For a roll cage, no way. For a go-kart on the cheap, I'd say why not. You may find it's a little heavier than what you need but if the extra weight is not an issue I really don't think you'd have problems building a go-kart with it.
Even DOM is welded seam.... You might notice there's a good thread about pipe at the top of this forum...
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Old May 21st, 2008, 09:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
It depends on the direction its being loaded in, but in 'normal' orientation, square is stronger than round, for bending.

0.125 wall is overkill for a go kart.
Yes, that's true. People always get confused because everyone says that the arch is the strongest shape, but that's for a totally different function. Look at what shape buildings are and what they are made of.
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 02:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Even DOM is welded seam.... You might notice there's a good thread about pipe at the top of this forum...
Huh? D.O.M. is Drawn over a mandrel hence the DOM and why it's seamless. Sure your not thinking of HREW tube?
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Old May 22nd, 2008, 05:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Huh? D.O.M. is Drawn over a mandrel hence the DOM and why it's seamless. Sure your not thinking of HREW tube?
No, its seam has been flattened, but it still starts life as welded seam.

So, 'HREW' and DOM, such as ASTM A513, tube start as flat bar, which is rolled and welded.

Seamless tube, like ASTM A519 starts as round bar, and is pierced to make truly seamless tube. Very common for gas line applications.



People like to call DOM seamless, becase it doesn't have a big bump at the seam, but the seam is there. Its just been worked.
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