this is what easter is really about - Page 9 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 28th, 2008, 11:22 AM   #161
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,509
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Scrambler View Post
Did you flunk spelling?
This is usually the best he can come up with . . . get used to post like this Mr. Toes


O and to further Toes analogy, I wear chaps and a leather jacket and skull mask (to keep the face warm) and a half nazi helmet . . . this would lead 84scrambler to judge that I'm a really mean Harley biker
































Wrong, I ride a Honda :tonka:
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old March 28th, 2008, 11:43 AM   #162
84Scrambler
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Lansing
Posts: 5,948
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to 84Scrambler
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InBBA View Post
This is usually the best he can come up with . . . get used to post like this Mr. Toes


O and to further Toes analogy, I wear chaps and a leather jacket and skull mask (to keep the face warm) and a half nazi helmet . . . this would lead 84scrambler to judge that I'm a really mean Harley biker

Wrong, I ride a Honda :tonka:
I wasn't the one passing judgement... Except that you and Mr. Toejam can't spell or write legibly. I guess that would be passing judgement. Only I don't profess to be holier than thou like you two. I can pass judgement and not worry about going to hell. Hope you like it warm. :tonka:
84Scrambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2008, 11:46 AM   #163
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84Scrambler View Post
Did you flunk spelling?
Spelling was not my strong suit in school.

Do you take medication for a multiple personality disorder because you never actually answer anybody, and your comical retorts don't even sound like they come from the same person, or personality anyway.

Look at what you wrote and how you contradicted your own posts. While you may have spelled everything correctly it is a little disturbing to think you didn't do this just to get our goats, or as a joke, and that you actually believe that mass of utter confusion you wrote.
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28th, 2008, 12:14 PM   #164
RyeBread
Catch the wave
 
RyeBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Fenton
Posts: 7,959
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I don't even try to spell. My postings in IE, here at work are about the only places I type that don't have an integral spell checker.

My installations of Firefox at home have a spell checker builtin, as does virtually every office automation tool. *shrug*

I have noticed however, that from time to time, my typing here is somewhat amusing to re-read when I notice the number of times my first word caps mentality is on... I can usually tell when I've been writing a lot of SQL based on my posts (our field naming convention tends to follow the uppercaseword formatting which is fairly common)
RyeBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 01:21 PM   #165
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
Well Dave I just don't understand how you can continually spout off about Christianity. Lets just set aside the debate of God and Jesus rising from the dead. How can you even consider something that would preach helping others, and giving of yourself. What the heck is wrong with you, don't you know that we have to be completely self absorbed with no compassion or regard for others. Can you imagine how sick of a world it would be if people lived like Christians. It would be unbearable to know you could count on others when you needed help. How sick would it be to not worry about your kids getting molested, somebody robbing you, or doing buisness without somebody screwing you.

Come on Dave take a good look at what your preaching and get your head screwed on straight. Go rob a seven eleven or rape an old lady tonight, do what your suppose to do.

Darwin would be proud act like the animal you where decended from.

Not Me!!
Just joined the thread. Why are the only choices either to be a Christian, or to commit crimes (etc.)?

I fit in to neither category.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 01:23 PM   #166
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
I think non-believers can be moral people, but the problem is that being a good person never got anyone to heaven, especially not christians.

But the good news is that Jesus didn't just die, there is more to the story. As a matter of fact, NO historian of that day refuted the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
None verifed it either. In fact, the bible is the only reference of that period that even discusses it.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 01:38 PM   #167
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
Hey, Way to make generalizations. I have a College Education. I've made all my decisions for my life by my self. I would consider my self anything from Spinless.
People that make rash Generalization like that are the people that need to be educated. Tell Mr. Toes that. Not as in academics, but as in what the church really is like right now and how it should be. When it comes to wars and people dieing, that is life. Most of the wars waged in the old testament were done in the name of God, But I'm pretty sure they didn't have the same morals we have now. But I thought everything in the bible defied time and was supposed to be as true then as it is supposed to be now? If they wouldn't have stood up and faught they would have died. Just like the victims of the inquisition. Is it thier fault they had an Almighty God on thier side and won? Yes, they believed, and they chose to base their actions on their belief. No. If anything it made them united and gave them a Greater sense of purpose then any man could have ever given them. Which made them even more dangerous.
I do agree that wars faught in more civilized times were wrong to do. Especially in the name of God. Alot of that has to do with people in power becoming corrupt and putting more faith in the Church establisment then God. The Catholic church and the crusades were one instance of that. In the mid-evil times the church was horribly corrupt. And guess what? It was run by people that ate, pooped, and slept. Just like us. The were inperfect. It boils down to the fact that any time the church gets away from God they tarnish the image of the body of Christ and hinder it's ability to do it's intended purpose. Preach the Gospel.
If you were to actually get involved with a church in your area ( I know of a Few) You might see that good things that are going on. I'm not saying become a Christian. But if you're going to make Such bold statments on a Belief system you may want to get in touch with what it's doing right now and not what it has done. So the same can be said for child molesters in prison that "find god"? How about mass murderers or serial killers?
People in the church are inperfect and are trying to live to a perfect standard. I don't see that as a Bad thing. Just an unachievable goal. For some odd reason you do. As far as us being uneducated, Most christians believe in the same exact science, math, And all that that you do. Considering all the other posts by religious people calling science a bunch of lies, I think you need to check your facts.... Most of my Christian Friends are just as educated (if not more) then the normal person.

Just let me say that I'm not meaning this to be demeaning or anything. It's simply me stating what I've learned and from what I've Expierenced. Not personal at all.





Explain why.
I just did....
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 01:40 PM   #168
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post
x13. especially involving complex doctoral level astrophysics, and the like.

heck, just study some statistics to learn how to judge statistics. then take a look at the statistical improbabilities based on the "expert scientific estimates" on the best "theories" out there. (this forces you to take a leap of faith to a degree in that you personally can't possibly comprehend expert level theories on every subject)

statistically speaking, it's just as probable that we come from xenu, as it is the one true God, as it is a big bang.

I know one thing for certain. I am not just a collection of chemicals, and chain reactions to bio-electrical impulses. I can't "prove" I, or anyone else has a soul - I do however know it. I also can't "prove" that the sun will rise tomorrow, but likewise I do know it...
So, Mr. Statistics, what is more likely? Believeing in a moderately substantiated theory, or believing in magic?
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 01:52 PM   #169
RyeBread
Catch the wave
 
RyeBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Fenton
Posts: 7,959
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
So, Mr. Statistics, what is more likely? Believeing in a moderately substantiated theory, or believing in magic?
Based upon a poisson distribution roughly equivalent.

For the record, I don't recall the Bible, or any Christian based theology using the term "magic". Many may proclaim miracles, which can just as easily be construed to mean something took place that isn't understood.

In the hard sciences usually that's where one attempts to create a constant for a formula, or throw it into an acceptable level of variance/standard error...
RyeBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 01:55 PM   #170
RyeBread
Catch the wave
 
RyeBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Fenton
Posts: 7,959
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
I just did....
your thoughts on the bible, and the division between the morals/actions of the old vs. new testaments, sometimes called the times of "law vs grace" are not consistent with what I have been taught, or am learning.

*shrug*

as far as this:

So the same can be said for child molesters in prison that "find god"? How about mass murderers or serial killers?

If left to a purely natural/animalistic sense there is no judgement of either regardless. The victims were simply not stronger than their oppressors. That's a bit harsh however don't you think?

To take a less stringent look at it, Sova has in earlier posts indicated that he's a "moral person". Do moral people break laws? That's the context of the old testament essentially, the laws and standards are/were supposed to be absolute. As I'm betting sova (And all of us can attest to) there are none of us that can claim we don't break laws.

We as humans have a really, really tough time trying to differentiate, and moralize, or demoralize laws which we agree/disagree with. Then we attempt to rank the horrificness or outrage over certain crimes.

Define a child. Even something as simple as the age of consent can't be agreed upon by the people of this great nation... Yet when we hear the term "child molester" it provokes very harsh outrage (as it should).

Last edited by RyeBread; April 7th, 2008 at 02:01 PM.
RyeBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 02:11 PM   #171
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4CX View Post
People used to not get offened by that kind of stuff. Now it seems as though some people hold the right to not be offened higher then other foundational freedoms. It's crap.

I'm not any farther in my Delusion than you are in yours.

People didn't used to get offended when speaking in deference to the Church of England, until settlers of the New World came to this continent and rejected that church. They protested, just like people in America, a country founded in part on that exact principal, are supposed to do. The people that don't want school staff endorsing any particular religion have a duty as Americans to speak out against it whenver it happens, no matte what religion it is.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 02:13 PM   #172
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
If what your saying about a represenative of the state is true then you should not be allowed to have a picture of your wife as it would suggest your sexual preference and could be offensive to queers. For that matter you should have to look totally generic and not speak as it may be offensive to illegal aliens if you spoke english. Furthermore all the occupants on the bus should be forced to adhere to the same rules after all if it is a school bus it is the governments property.
Another ridiculously irrelevant spewing off drivel by mr. Toes. Sexual preference isn't mentioned in the Constitution, but religion is. Why do you always have to make such childish outbursts?
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 02:23 PM   #173
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post
in as much as I may disagree with some of the verbal jousting you guys are doing in here, Mr. Toes does have a certain point. There are several quoted passages directly posed at you in this 5 page thread that others have asked you to address, and for whatever reason some of you have chosen to dodge them. some have implied a pattern there with certain individuals.

an example is the idea of being comfortable with an always present, infinite universe, but somehow rejecting an always present, infinite God. Another, your absurd statements that religion causes war, and "end religion, end war" have been proven false with a mere 30 seconds of googling the term "genocide".

I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in wondering where your rage against believers is stemming from, or your need to use terms like "delusional" to categorize us instead of debating like a rational adult. See most of us didn't subscribe to being spoon fed by our Churches, and/or what our parents forced down our throats in catechism (I wasn't raised, nor do I subscribe to catholicism so I'm unsure of the spelling)

See there's this thing that as we age and mature, the normal well adjusted person starts to take our norms from our peers, instead of carte blanche from our parents. During the course of public education we're also forced to learn, and thus debate, and entertain other notions, eventually forced to confront certain beliefs as best as possible and to make a decision. And trust me when I say this, that decision, and the faith it is based on is tested, poked, pushed, and prodded thousands of times each day. None of us have definitive proof of pretty much anything - and many of us struggle, and question certain aspects of our belief systems, and how to fit it all into a modern world. It's my belief, that rational debate and counterpoints are healthy for either end of the belief continuum in my opinion.

However, if you are only here to flame-bait, and call names I would submit that a better choice would be over in the recycle bin. *shrug*
I believe that I have offered a large number of rational, nonflaming posts since I've joined and have met with a great deal of animosity from the religious, including you.

Debate is healthy. IMO. Debate needs to be fact based to be meaningful, otherwise it would be a waste of time.

I personally don't "believe" in any gods, the big bang, or anything else. The only thing I believe is that man is so amazingly primitive that they won't know the answer any time soon, and is so hung up on "being right" and "knowing" that they are willing to invent things to achieve explanation. It's been going on throughout history, and some great lengths have been journeyed to substantiate such things too.

I for one will not latch on to your little bible or the big bang theory because none of them prove enough to me to say, "Okay, there it is. Verifiable. Repeatable. Irrefutable. Fact.". Until then, anyone that professes such is going too far.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 02:27 PM   #174
RyeBread
Catch the wave
 
RyeBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Fenton
Posts: 7,959
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
Another ridiculously irrelevant spewing off drivel by mr. Toes. Sexual preference isn't mentioned in the Constitution, but religion is. Why do you always have to make such childish outbursts?
if I recall correctly, religion isn't either, Church is what is referenced in the constitution. it is subsequent case law, and theory, as well as perhaps some enabling legislation and/or procedural law that creates the practical side of the whole separation of religion/government...

not to get technical, but since law is basically about technicalities, and the constitution is a legal document, it should be technical at that level...
RyeBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #175
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post
no, not employed by the school - contracted by the school... if you're not aware, a great number of school districts are outsourcing or investigating future oursourcing of a large number of services that formerly were integral. bussing being one of them, custodial and meal services are others.

there are also believe it or not many areas of the country where the cost of real estate is so high, that public entities are forced to lease their real estate to perform their functions - that is your argument about "public ownership" flies right out the window.

finally, as part of that crossing over point I was making. as an example it is actually very common for school districts to rent out the use of their schools', auditoriums, and/or Gyms for the use of Churches that are in transition...

"Ownership", especially in cases such as that referenced, refer to the publics ownership of the entity, not a contractual, financial ownership of it. That's why they're called "public schools", regardless of how they are staffed or funded. Nice try.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 02:31 PM   #176
RyeBread
Catch the wave
 
RyeBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Fenton
Posts: 7,959
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
I believe that I have offered a large number of rational, nonflaming posts since I've joined and have met with a great deal of animosity from the religious, including you.

Debate is healthy. IMO. Debate needs to be fact based to be meaningful, otherwise it would be a waste of time.
? I honestly don't recall any flaming postes directed at you. I agree debate is healthy. "Debating" while off-handedly or blatantly attempting to instigate inflammatory arguments or derisive viewpoints such as "the fairy tale" that many like to call religion isn't healthy and automatically puts the more sensitive people on the defensive, and just furthers the promotion of division, rather than coming together to discuss things rationally.

there are very few people on this site that I would intentionally flame-bait, and so far none have entered this thread to my recollection. It is however an old thread, and I don't have the time to go back through it in its entirety.
RyeBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 02:34 PM   #177
RyeBread
Catch the wave
 
RyeBread's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Fenton
Posts: 7,959
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
"Ownership", especially in cases such as that referenced, refer to the publics ownership of the entity, not a contractual, financial ownership of it. That's why they're called "public schools", regardless of how they are staffed or funded. Nice try.
no. many posts were referencing the the use of publicly owned grounds/buildings for display of, or practicing of religious symbology.

as for the other side of it, as I stated, there are a very large number of, and in fact increasing instances of public funded, owned, and operated entities enjoying tax free status, yet competing directly with for-profit/taxed business entities. the parks and recreation departments of many school districts, and/or municipalities are as an example creating ever more lavish recreational parks, including water parks that in some cases rival destination resorts...
RyeBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #178
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by InBBA View Post
Please give me a few examples of the State sponsored/promoted religion.



All I can think of is the nativity scene that goes out in the front of many Government buildings. In most cases those are over 25 years old as well so I don't think the state has been sponsoring them for a while besides the pay it gives to the workers who are on the clock installing it ever year.

So what other things can you think of? Maybe stem cell but that can just be against a persons morals and have nothing to do with religion, you yourself claimed that your morals have nothing to do with religion.

You obviously don't know the difference between "sposored" and "endorsed".
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 03:09 PM   #179
Mr Toes - R.I.P.
November 7, 1958 - July 22, 2011
 
Mr Toes - R.I.P.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-29-07
Location: Belleville Mi
Posts: 4,727
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
People didn't used to get offended when speaking in deference to the Church of England, until settlers of the New World came to this continent and rejected that church. They protested, just like people in America, a country founded in part on that exact principal, are supposed to do. The people that don't want school staff endorsing any particular religion have a duty as Americans to speak out against it whenver it happens, no matte what religion it is.
#73
scottie
Quality Ass




Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Jackson/Rochesterish
Posts: 4,245


iTrader: (0) Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Toes
Sex between males is a gay thing. Also since you claim it's discusting, we can make the determination that any physicallogical changes in your body, like a temperature change, that happens when you whitness something that you find distasteful or you don't like, and this temperature change will cause a change in the size of your penis, as this happens with the slightest body temperture change, You are a gay child molester at heart. This must be true because you said you found it to be discusting, and that, according to you is proof of your inner child molesting gay self.

learn to fucking spell you inbred half wit


and again your logic is flawed


Is this the type of constructive answer you would like to see offered in these discussions? Simple direct question.
Mr Toes - R.I.P. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 7th, 2008, 04:16 PM   #180
AGoodBuzz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: 12-09-07
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 1,557
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post
your thoughts on the bible, and the division between the morals/actions of the old vs. new testaments, sometimes called the times of "law vs grace" are not consistent with what I have been taught, or am learning. I'm glad you pointed this out. I need to dig through my debates with Mr. Toes and his gang of thugs to find the several times they either suggested or implicitly stated that it was. Thanks for that.

*shrug*

as far as this:

So the same can be said for child molesters in prison that "find god"? How about mass murderers or serial killers?

If left to a purely natural/animalistic sense there is no judgement of either regardless. The victims were simply not stronger than their oppressors. That's a bit harsh however don't you think? It was intended to be harsh, especially for the reason you mention below. Mr. Toes and the gang often talk about love and forgiveness, but I bet they don't want a child molester babysitting their kids, even if he did "find god". I could be wrong.

To take a less stringent look at it, Sova has in earlier posts indicated that he's a "moral person". Do moral people break laws? That's the context of the old testament essentially, the laws and standards are/were supposed to be absolute. As I'm betting sova (And all of us can attest to) there are none of us that can claim we don't break laws.

We as humans have a really, really tough time trying to differentiate, and moralize, or demoralize laws which we agree/disagree with. Then we attempt to rank the horrificness or outrage over certain crimes.

Define a child. Even something as simple as the age of consent can't be agreed upon by the people of this great nation... Yet when we hear the term "child molester" it provokes very harsh outrage (as it should).
.
AGoodBuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:38 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.52887 seconds with 80 queries