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Old March 23rd, 2008, 04:57 PM   #41
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You profess to being a Christian? Let's test your actual knowledge of your belief. Tell me who the first woman was?
I have specifically not professed to being a Christian. In part based on the definition of the term. There has not been a single man, or woman that has been worthy of being called "Christ like" before, or after he walked this earth.

as for reading the original text - while I'm 3rd generation German, I do not speak, or read fluent. Each and every translation, of any language has nuances that are hard to catch without comparison to other translations.

Am I currently, and actively reading the Bible? Yes. Several translations at once, concurrently via a program called esword. Am I even knowledgeable enough to call myself a novice with respect to what the bible states? No.

From what I have read, regardless of how Hitler viewed himself, or proclaimed himself, he most assuredly was not Christlike, and if he professed to following his teachings, he was (without judgment) I would submit among the worst ever at it...
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 04:59 PM   #42
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EVERYONE knows Easter is when Jesus rises from the dead and comes out of his cave and if he sees his shadow we get two more weeks of winter. DUH.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 05:34 PM   #43
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I did not mean to insult you by calling you a Christian. I wrongly assumed you were.

I will agree that nobody has acted "Christlike", and indeed, Hitler sucked at it.

You are correct in saying that many have performed wrongful acts under the name of various religions. However, our country is currently under the oppression of Christians, and I have the right to speak about it.

Oppression of a people is a wide term. Whether or not you like it, the U.S. is a "Christian" based country. Current Christian oppression in the U.S. is a mental one, subliminal almost. Our children are supposed to be able to be free thinkers, as long as they memorize "one nation under god", and pay for their lunches with money printed "In God We Trust", while taking only the Christian Holidays off from school. When is the last time the post office and banks shut down for Ramadan, or Kwanza, or any other Non-Christian holiday?

Sure, I like taking Easter and Christmas off from work, but these holidays only enforce to my children that the "Christian" holidays are the only important ones.

Organized religion itself is Non-Christian. Most of the early texts of the bible state that Jesus told the people "not to pray in a group, not to gather in his name, but to pray at home, alone, in the darkness, when the connection to him is personal"

My statement about the first woman was just a test I like to give to Christians that try to "convert" me. 99% of them, including two ministers I have spoken to, do not know that prior to the mass editing of the bible in the early 1700s, Eve was the eighth woman given to Adam. The first seven were not as Adam wanted them (one liked too many sexual positions) so he continuously asked God for a "do-over". Finally, God was so fed up with Adam that he made Eve from Adam's rib, in a sort of biblical cloning process, to make a female Adam. This vanity of Adam, and the fact that Adam had sexual partners before Eve, was considered too racy for the mainly protestant population, so the entire story was cut from the bible from then on. If you view the Guttenburg Bible, or any of the ancient ones in the National Library, you will find that as much as 50% of the original works have been edited, re-written, and deleted, to the point in which the Christian of today has an entirely different basis on their religion than a Christian of only 400 years ago.

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Old March 23rd, 2008, 05:50 PM   #44
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I did not mean to insult you by calling you a Christian. I wrongly assumed you were.

I will agree that nobody has acted "Christlike", and indeed, Hitler sucked at it.

You are correct in saying that many have performed wrongful acts under the name of various religions. However, our country is currently under the oppression of Christians, and I have the right to speak about it.

Oppression of a people is a wide term. Whether or not you like it, the U.S. is a "Christian" based country. Current Christian oppression in the U.S. is a mental one, subliminal almost. Our children are supposed to be able to be free thinkers, as long as they memorize "one nation under god", and pay for their lunches with money printed "In God We Trust", while taking only the Christian Holidays off from school. When is the last time the post office and banks shut down for Ramadan, or Kwanza, or any other Non-Christian holiday?

Sure, I like taking Easter and Christmas off from work, but these holidays only enforce to my children that the "Christian" holidays are the only important ones.

Organized religion itself is Non-Christian. Most of the early texts of the bible state that Jesus told the people "not to pray in a group, not to gather in his name, but to pray at home, alone, in the darkness, when the connection to him is personal"

My statement about the first woman was just a test I like to give to Christians that try to "convert" me. 99% of them, including two ministers I have spoken to, do not know that prior to the mass editing of the bible in the early 1700s, Eve was the eighth woman given to Adam. The first seven were not as Adam wanted them (one liked too many sexual positions) so he continuously asked God for a "do-over". Finally, God was so fed up with Adam that he made Eve from Adam's rib, in a sort of biblical cloning process, to make a female Adam. This vanity of Adam, and the fact that Adam had sexual partners before Eve, was considered too racy for the mainly protestant population, so the entire story was cut from the bible from then on. If you view the Guttenburg Bible, or any of the ancient ones in the National Library, you will find that as much as 50% of the original works have been edited, re-written, and deleted, to the point in which the Christian of today has an entirely different basis on their religion than a Christian of only 400 years ago.
You are kidding right? The mass editing you speak of was done by the protestants in protest of Catholic misdeeds. They shaped the Bible to fit their beliefs, omitting was didn't conform to their needs.

The versions of the Bible that were transcribed from the Hebrew and Greek texts did not/do not contain any references that you speak of. The only historical significance to the Guttenberg Bible is that it was the first bible made on a printing press.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 06:20 PM   #45
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I said what I meant and meant what I said. You are a pissy little 12-year old +/- 6 years and constantly try to draw people into fights, then backpedal. You fight like HooHaa. History has demonstrated that almost every conflict in history has been the direct result of religious difference. Christains have killed more people over the past 2000 years than any other organization on this planet in the name of their God. Christians preach tolerance, but practice intolerance. Christians preach inclusion, but practice exclusion. You can believe in whatever fairy tale you so desire. It doesn't affect me unless you start imposing your beliefs on me, which inevitably happens because Christians can't accept that many people dislike their beliefs, don't want their beliefs, and don't want to have their lives controlled by their beliefs. I am a very moral and upright person. I just don't believe in little deities floating in some imaginary palace in the sky that supposedly spoke to several select individuals thousands of years ago laying down the law for how humanity should live. I also don't thank "god" for all the good things that happen in my life. I thank my parents for setting a good example and paying for my undergraduate education. The rest was up to me and the choices I have made. I don't need some irrational and conveniently vague book, translated many times over by drunk monks to tell me what would jesus do. I am smart enough to know right from wrong. But, if you personally need that, go for it. You can do just as well getting a spine, an education, and making decisions on your own.
Nice rant, pointless but nice. You never answered my question about killing under the banner of Christianity. You never offered any support to what you said. You did however point out your so moral and upright. This sounds like a pat on your own back, and an attempt to discount the billions of Christians that are moral and upright. No surprise that it sounds self serving and pretentious.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 06:41 PM   #46
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Nice rant, pointless but nice. You never answered my question about killing under the banner of Christianity. You never offered any support to what you said. You did however point out your so moral and upright. This sounds like a pat on your own back, and an attempt to discount the billions of Christians that are moral and upright. No surprise that it sounds self serving and pretentious.
It is only pointless because I disagree with your views. I love how so-called Christians instantly call people that refuse to believe in their little fantasy world self-serving, pretentious, or any other word that means the same thing. I will make it very clear. I don't believe in God. The Bible is a nice story book. Man needed some way to decipher the world around him. Religion was born. Man has great difficulty grasping that something is infinite. The universe has always been. There is no beginning. I don't agree with in the beginning God created whatever. Before God could create something, something would have had to create God. God is just the story early people came up with to quell their fear of not knowing what they didn't know. Unfortunately, this crap has been passed down for thousands of years and you are just another sheep in a very long line of sheep that goes along with it.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 06:43 PM   #47
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[QUOTE=keithshotrodshop;1015597]I did not mean to insult you by calling you a Christian. I wrongly assumed you were.

I will agree that nobody has acted "Christlike", and indeed, Hitler sucked at it.

You are correct in saying that many have performed wrongful acts under the name of various religions. However, our country is currently under the oppression of Christians, and I have the right to speak about it.

Oppression of a people is a wide term. Whether or not you like it, the U.S. is a "Christian" based country. Current Christian oppression in the U.S. is a mental one, subliminal almost. Our children are supposed to be able to be free thinkers, as long as they memorize "one nation under god", and pay for their lunches with money printed "In God We Trust", while taking only the Christian Holidays off from school. When is the last time the post office and banks shut down for Ramadan, or Kwanza, or any other Non-Christian holiday?
Martin Luther King Day, Thanksgiving, New Years Day, Presidents Day, Fourth of July (Independance Day), Memorial Day, Labor Day ( Now an entire weekend, caused by union oppression)
Sure, I like taking Easter and Christmas off from work, but these holidays only enforce to my children that the "Christian" holidays are the only important ones.
Easter is a Sunday no schools banks or post offices are open on Sunday

Organized religion itself is Non-Christian. Most of the early texts of the bible state that Jesus told the people "not to pray in a group, not to gather in his name, but to pray at home, alone, in the darkness, when the connection to him is personal"
Show me this

My statement about the first woman was just a test I like to give to Christians that try to "convert" me. 99% of them, including two ministers I have spoken to, do not know that prior to the mass editing of the bible in the early 1700s, Matin Luther completed his translation prior to that. Eve was the eighth woman given to Adam. The first seven were not as Adam wanted them (one liked too many sexual positions) so he continuously asked God for a "do-over". Finally, God was so fed up with Adam that he made Eve from Adam's rib, in a sort of biblical cloning process, to make a female Adam. This vanity of Adam, and the fact that Adam had sexual partners before Eve, was considered too racy for the mainly protestant population, so the entire story was cut from the bible from then on. If you view the Guttenburg Bible, or any of the ancient ones in the National Library, you will find that as much as 50% of the original works have been edited, re-written, and deleted, to the point in which the Christian of today has an entirely different basis on their religion than a Christian of only 400 years ago.[/QUOTEYour dates don't jive if you add 400 years to 1700 you get 2100 not 2008
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 07:01 PM   #48
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It is only pointless because I disagree with your views. I love how so-called Christians instantly call people that refuse to believe in their little fantasy world self-serving, pretentious, or any other word that means the same thing. I will make it very clear. I don't believe in God. The Bible is a nice story book. Man needed some way to decipher the world around him. Religion was born. Man has great difficulty grasping that something is infinite. The universe has always been. There is no beginning. I don't agree with in the beginning God created whatever. Before God could create something, something would have had to create God. God is just the story early people came up with to quell their fear of not knowing what they didn't know. Unfortunately, this crap has been passed down for thousands of years and you are just another sheep in a very long line of sheep that goes along with it.
Did you learn to read in college.
My original remark was would it be so bad if people ran their lives as taught in the bible?
The funny thing about a herd of sheep is they have a leader the follow, they stick together, and there is always a wolf or a coyotte with distemper running around trying to stir them up. Funny thing is the wolf or coyotte with distemper either runs it's head into a rock, or it runs off a cliff. Either way it's obvious it dosen't know what it's doing
I do have to say you have the consistancy of the custard we had for desert.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 07:16 PM   #49
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[QUOTE=Mr Toes;1015675]
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Originally Posted by keithshotrodshop View Post
I did not mean to insult you by calling you a Christian. I wrongly assumed you were.

I will agree that nobody has acted "Christlike", and indeed, Hitler sucked at it.

You are correct in saying that many have performed wrongful acts under the name of various religions. However, our country is currently under the oppression of Christians, and I have the right to speak about it.

Oppression of a people is a wide term. Whether or not you like it, the U.S. is a "Christian" based country. Current Christian oppression in the U.S. is a mental one, subliminal almost. Our children are supposed to be able to be free thinkers, as long as they memorize "one nation under god", and pay for their lunches with money printed "In God We Trust", while taking only the Christian Holidays off from school. When is the last time the post office and banks shut down for Ramadan, or Kwanza, or any other Non-Christian holiday?
Martin Luther King Day, Thanksgiving, New Years Day, Presidents Day, Fourth of July (Independance Day), Memorial Day, Labor Day ( Now an entire weekend, caused by union oppression)You are correct, there are also Non-Christian holidays, what's your point?
Sure, I like taking Easter and Christmas off from work, but these holidays only enforce to my children that the "Christian" holidays are the only important ones.
Easter is a Sunday no schools banks or post offices are open on SundayHowever, most schools take a whole week off for the holiday, and the banks and post offices take off Good Friday, which is part of easter

Organized religion itself is Non-Christian. Most of the early texts of the bible state that Jesus told the people "not to pray in a group, not to gather in his name, but to pray at home, alone, in the darkness, when the connection to him is personal"
Show me thisRead the early texts and you'll find it

My statement about the first woman was just a test I like to give to Christians that try to "convert" me. 99% of them, including two ministers I have spoken to, do not know that prior to the mass editing of the bible in the early 1700s, Matin Luther completed his translation prior to that. Eve was the eighth woman given to Adam. The first seven were not as Adam wanted them (one liked too many sexual positions) so he continuously asked God for a "do-over". Finally, God was so fed up with Adam that he made Eve from Adam's rib, in a sort of biblical cloning process, to make a female Adam. This vanity of Adam, and the fact that Adam had sexual partners before Eve, was considered too racy for the mainly protestant population, so the entire story was cut from the bible from then on. If you view the Guttenburg Bible, or any of the ancient ones in the National Library, you will find that as much as 50% of the original works have been edited, re-written, and deleted, to the point in which the Christian of today has an entirely different basis on their religion than a Christian of only 400 years ago.[/QUOTEYour dates don't jive if you add 400 years to 1700 you get 2100 not 2008
My dates jive fine, I'm just stating that the Christians of the 1600's were completely different than the Christian's only 100 years later, or today
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 07:27 PM   #50
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Nice rant, pointless but nice. You never answered my question about killing under the banner of Christianity. You never offered any support to what you said. You did however point out your so moral and upright. This sounds like a pat on your own back, and an attempt to discount the billions of Christians that are moral and upright. No surprise that it sounds self serving and pretentious.
Nothing of the sort. I believe I am being mis-understood. I believe in discussion, and freedom to look into the past, which I have done extensively over the years. I don't discount any of the peoples beliefs that are posting here, and I welcome their questioning of mine. There are millions of moral Christians, and millions of Moral non-Christians. Being Christian has nothing to do with morality. Personally I think I am a moral person, but I don't know for sure. I don't believe I am more moral than anyone.

Basically, what I am saying is that Easter is not all about Jesus, as the thread was originally started about. It is more than just that. Christians claim this day, but so do others.

The point about Christian bloodshed is separate. However it is history that needs to not be forgotten. Forgetting the evils that have been performed under the name of Christ would be the same as trying to forget slavery, or the holocaust.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:19 PM   #51
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To your comment about the medievel churches being corrupt. That hasn't changed in 1,500 years. The Catholic church is the largest multi-level marketing scam on the planet and is rife with corrupt leaders. They are the largest private land owner in the US as well. Think of the tax money that isn't being paid to a huge number of locales across the US. I disagree with churches having tax exempt status.
I partically agree with you on that. I'm Methodist for a reason......It's not Catholic. I'm not saying they are horrible, I just don't agree with alot of the Dogma. I know plenty of Catholics that have used that Dogma in the way it was originally intended (which was to foster a personal Relationship with Christ) and they are some of the stronger Christians in my life. Unfortunatly, I also know alot that use it in the oppisite way. They "walk the Walk" but when it comes down to it, They don't believe it in thier hearts and don't speak it with thier mouths. Oh, and the tax thing. Completely, 100% agree with you. "Give to Ceaser what is Ceaser's, Give to God what is God's"


..... The rest of this message has been Edited because I'm not even going to get into that crap.

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Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:30 PM   #52
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It is only pointless because I disagree with your views. I love how so-called Christians instantly call people that refuse to believe in their little fantasy world self-serving, pretentious, or any other word that means the same thing. I will make it very clear. I don't believe in God. The Bible is a nice story book. Man needed some way to decipher the world around him. Religion was born. Man has great difficulty grasping that something is infinite. The universe has always been. There is no beginning. I don't agree with in the beginning God created whatever. Before God could create something, something would have had to create God. God is just the story early people came up with to quell their fear of not knowing what they didn't know. Unfortunately, this crap has been passed down for thousands of years and you are just another sheep in a very long line of sheep that goes along with it.

This is completely just curiousity. If you can believe that the Universe has just always been. Why does God have to be Created? Why can't God have always been? Just curious.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 05:37 AM   #53
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missed nearly a whole page.

let me clear a couple things up about myself. since people were getting technical with details, I referenced the root meaning of Christian in an attempt to split hairs like some have done. I would never take offense at being labeled a Christian, let's face it we as a people love to label things, it helps us make quick predetermined blanket judgments and/or opinions.

so, for the sake of convenience call me a Christian.

that being said, I do not follow organized, religious dogma of any particular Christian denomination. I am most interested (not very well versed, but most interested) in the very early Christian movement.

Part of this interest stems from how rapidly the early Christian faith spread, without the power/organization of today's megolithic organized, "corrupt" as some have pointed out Churches. I'm interested in what led the early Christian martyrs to martyr themselves.

I'm not talking about someone with the fervor of blind faith, that most will off-handedly call a zealot like today's radical islamic airplane pilots, but rather the people at the epicenter. the very folks that lived in the time frame of Jesus, that may have in fact seen the various miracles attributed to Jesus.

it's one thing to die for what one believes in. it's another to not only die, but to suffer excruciating torture for something that one "thinks" they believe in, but wonders if what they really saw, really happened - or worse - as some have accused over the years, they knew to be made up...

in as much as the name of Christ has been improperly used to motivate bloodshed, so too have Christians been persecuted and slaughtered like any other religion, even unto today.

re: early texts. rest assured I'll be looking for any credible evidence of such bizarre old testament preachings. as has already been pointed out, there are many remaining early translations that predate the organized editing of later translations. I would also like to point out, that if you read the preface of most bibles, they indicate the methodologies, and sources used to create the translations.

according to the preface in the NIV, it's a multi, and non-denominational effort at translating in some cases thousands of year old manuscripts... there's also this issue of the old testament in the bible being largely cross-referenced with ancient Jewish theological records...
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Old March 24th, 2008, 05:45 AM   #54
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oh. as for having entire weeks off for mostly Christian based holidays.

much like many large employers (e.g. GM) business and government has found that if the majority of their workforce is going to take off "sick" or request vacation in the same time frame, that it's more efficient to declare a holiday. so too schools often schedule their spring breaks around Easter. yes, part of it no doubt is in deference to the majority (this is still a democracy?) that at least profess to profess Christian based beliefs.

anyway, witness Michigan's traditional "shut down" in two weeks over July for "retooling" - or "hunting week" in November. there are also obviously as has been pointed out, numerous federal holidays that don't come close to offering deference to any religious holiday.

and thank God nobody attempted to insinuate that the Constitution mandates a separation of Church and State. it doesn't. it only mentions that the Feds will not specifically endorse one Church. according to history, this was in part due to early American's bristling over the attempt of one European leadership or another forcing them to tow the line on Protestant, or Catholic dogma.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 06:30 AM   #55
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Did you learn to read in college.
My original remark was would it be so bad if people ran their lives as taught in the bible?
The funny thing about a herd of sheep is they have a leader the follow, they stick together, and there is always a wolf or a coyotte with distemper running around trying to stir them up. Funny thing is the wolf or coyotte with distemper either runs it's head into a rock, or it runs off a cliff. Either way it's obvious it dosen't know what it's doing
I do have to say you have the consistancy of the custard we had for desert.
Talk about my reading. How about your barely legible writing. It would take a PhD to figure out half of your ramblings and a shrink to decipher the rest.

Yeah, let's live according to the bible. I enjoy slaughtering sheep.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 06:57 AM   #56
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This is completely just curiousity. If you can believe that the Universe has just always been. Why does God have to be Created? Why can't God have always been? Just curious.
I've never been able to get one of them to give a reasonable answer to that question either.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 08:26 AM   #57
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Personally I think I am a moral person, but I don't know for sure. I don't believe I am more moral than anyone.
I'm not sounding this too be demeaning or judgemental or anything of the sort. I'm just using this statement as proof of what I was trying to say earlier. I"m in the same boat, and I think most of us are. I, by no means, am perfect, and don't claim any resemablemce of it.

I would just like to know how does it make sense to judge what is morally right for one to do off of what one does? Does anyone get what I'm saying? Christians have a Standard to look to for morals. They have an All knowing, All loving, Almighty father to look to for what is right and wrong. It seems that people that don't have belief in a God would not have this ability and then just judge of what they think is right and wrong, and that idea can change from day to day. Belief in God gives us a solid moral compass to TRY and follow. Now, if people in the past, present, or future actually follow that, That is another question. I'm just cuirous to how do people with out God judge what morals are good. It would seem that a Large amount take the morals of the church, Take out what they don't want, and use that. Just an Observation/Question.
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My statement about the first woman was just a test I like to give to Christians that try to "convert" me. 99% of them, including two ministers I have spoken to, do not know that prior to the mass editing of the bible in the early 1700s, Eve was the eighth woman given to Adam. The first seven were not as Adam wanted them (one liked too many sexual positions) so he continuously asked God for a "do-over". Finally, God was so fed up with Adam that he made Eve from Adam's rib, in a sort of biblical cloning process, to make a female Adam. This vanity of Adam, and the fact that Adam had sexual partners before Eve, was considered too racy for the mainly protestant population, so the entire story was cut from the bible from then on. If you view the Guttenburg Bible, or any of the ancient ones in the National Library, you will find that as much as 50% of the original works have been edited, re-written, and deleted, to the point in which the Christian of today has an entirely different basis on their religion than a Christian of only 400 years ago.
That's good and all, But wouldn't technically the supposed 7 or 8 not be called woman because God named Eve Woman, because she came from man? The other "woman" would have been considered something else.

Quote:
But for adam no suitable helper was found. So the lord God caused the Man to fall into a Deep sleep and while he was sleeping he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the lord God made woman from the rib he had taken out of the man and he brought her to the man.
The man said
"This is now bone of my bones
Flesh of my flesh
She shall be called woman
For was taken out of man"
Genesis 2:20b- 23.

The others were not taken out of Adam, so therefore they were not Woman, but something else. Also, I'd like to know were you got this information. You mentioned in another post that you are a English major, with a History minor? You also mentioned that you had to learn old english to study the early bible. I'm confused as to why you would need to know old english. Being a History person I would think you would know that the bible was originally written in Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic (Sp?). If you're getting this information from a bible based in old english you are probably getting a jaded translation. If you can prove to me that this theory is based in the Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic bibles, I will conseed. The only main editing that I have heard of was At the Nician Counsel (Sp?). That was alot longer then 400 years ago. And if you're getting this information from any nostic Gospel then it's not considered holy scripture. And alot of the information is incorrect. That's why it's left out of the bible. So...<leans back in chair> Lets talk.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 11:55 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post

and thank God nobody attempted to insinuate that the Constitution mandates a separation of Church and State. it doesn't. it only mentions that the Feds will not specifically endorse one Church. according to history, this was in part due to early American's bristling over the attempt of one European leadership or another forcing them to tow the line on Protestant, or Catholic dogma.
if that's how you understand it...feel free. but to me, that part in the constitution does echo the idea of separation of church and state along with the previous thoughts and ideas of the founding fathers, many who were deists, at best.

Do you think that Church should be intermingled with state? Do you want a theocracy?
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Old March 24th, 2008, 11:57 AM   #59
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Anyone else think it's funny when 84scrambler throws out the "you act like a 12 y/o +/- 6 years"

I love similar themes

And Mr. Toes . . . I don't have a PHD and I understood what you said but then again he say's you fight like me so maybe that's why. He also lost in arguments with me as well so fighting like me is a very good sign for you :tonka:

And Jesus Rocks!! Thank you Jesus!!!

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Old March 24th, 2008, 12:58 PM   #60
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if that's how you understand it...feel free. but to me, that part in the constitution does echo the idea of separation of church and state along with the previous thoughts and ideas of the founding fathers, many who were deists, at best.

Do you think that Church should be intermingled with state? Do you want a theocracy?
200 year old Queen's English is admitedly different when spoken, and/or written compared today's English.

That being said, nowhere in the constitution will you find it explicitly stating a separation of Church and State.

From wiki:

In the United States, separation of church and state is often identified with the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…" The phrase "building a wall of separation between church and state" was written by the U.S. President Thomas Jefferson in a January 1, 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association.[2]

Last I knew, while Jefferson was considered by many to be one of the great founding fathers, we do not base our society based soley on his letters, or opinions.

The question of a theocracy will be ignored, as even during/with a Christian majority of voters, there has never been a chance of a theocracy due to the fact that the many Christian denominations can't get along, or agree on various aspects of interpretting the Bible, or organization, and practicing of worship.


I will also agree with many elements posted here:
http://atheism.about.com/od/churchst...s/a/phrase.htm


In particular:
The point of such an amendment is twofold. First, it ensures that religious beliefs - private or organized - are removed from attempted government control. This is the reason why the government cannot tell either you or your church what to believe or to teach. Second, it ensures that the government does not get involved with enforcing, mandating, or promoting particular religious doctrines. This is what happens when the government "establishes" a church - and because doing so created so many problems in Europe, the authors of the Constitution wanted to try and prevent the same from happening here.


As for the earlier comments regarding tax exempt status of Church property. Churches are typically legally organized entities incorporated under non-profit laws of this Country, as such they are not enjoying special protection from the Government. There are many overlaps that are constantly being debated in courts of law over what is allowed to exist in this arena.

Often Exempt Hospitals, Government agencies themselves, and regional authorities trip over the edge of performing tasks that are "profitable" and/or in direct competition to profit motivated private corporations.

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