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Old March 22nd, 2008, 03:07 PM   #21
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Whoooohoooo Easter! Thank you Jesus.

<Unrelated Rant>
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you probably believe that's what atheists and agnostics do, too. so misunderstood. Yup, anybody who isn't Christian is a non-moral person who does all kind of bad things because they aren't scared of going to hell. Guess what, I am a good person and i don't rape and pillage because I have morals, no thanks to religion.
I think it's more along the lines of if you don't believe in a God, or his word, you don't have anything to gauge those morals off of except you (not you personally, But as a Society). It's like a Child saying their going to do something because they want to. Our country is slowling getting away from God and that is the reason the country is in the "state" it is in.

And yes, I know that not all the founding fathers weren't Christian, but they came from a time were thier culture's morals were based of Christian morals. So, like it or not, the rules set forth in most of our countries original Documents are based on a Culture that was aware, and for the most part, close with God. Now that we have "freedom of religion" (not "freedom FROM Religion") people can ignore him, and in turn, try and make it so that the people that acknowldge him can barely express the religion that was a main reason for the start of this country.

So, now we have a Country that turns to them selves to make the rules for a society instead of an all knowing, all loving, almighty God. Or to put it simply, the children have stopped listening to the father and are running around, doing what ever they want. </Unrelated Rant>
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 11:52 PM   #22
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Thats not what I said at all. Are you saying that you try to follow a life style that is taught by Christians, You have values, your compassionate to others you actually give a shit. If you really do why haven't I ever seen a supportive post from you acknowleging the life style that Christians teach we should live is infact they way you try to live and is the way you would like to see people try to live.
I think your a closet Christian, And I'm not so down on the pillaging I come from a long line of, pillaging Christians Cossacks.
My point was how bad would this world be if everybody lived an everyday lifestyle that is taught by Christians.
More people have been killed under the banner of Christianity than anything else. Christians as a whole are the most unforgiving, non-accepting, and unmoral group I can think of. Religion is the root of all evil. Wars are caused by religion. End Religion, End War.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 01:09 AM   #23
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More people have been killed under the banner of Christianity than anything else. Christians as a whole are the most unforgiving, non-accepting, and unmoral group I can think of. Religion is the root of all evil. Wars are caused by religion. End Religion, End War.
i agree to an extent. they will still find something to fight over. so no end to war.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 09:02 AM   #24
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More people have been killed under the banner of Law's than anything else. People who adhere to the Law as a whole are the most unforgiving, non-accepting, and unmoral group I can think of. Law is the root of all crime. Crime is caused by Law's. End Law's, End Crime.
You have to clairify what you mean by killed under the banner of Christianity, Also The statement Christians as a whole, might be better served to say people that claim to be Christians and choose not to follow what they are taught. Everything you said Christians are is the opposite of their teachings. I wasn't or didn't address Christians as people I was referencing the teachings.
I fixed your post, tell me if you laughed after you read it. I thought it sounded kind of silly.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 09:06 AM   #25
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You have to clairify what you mean by killed under the banner of Christianity, Also The statement Christians as a whole, might be better served to say people that claim to be Christians and choose not to follow what they are taught. Everything you said Christians are is the opposite of their teachings. I wasn't or didn't address Christians as people I was referencing the teachings.
I fixed your post, tell me if you laughed after you read it. I thought it sounded kind of silly.
Your reply has the depth expected from you. None.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 09:15 AM   #26
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Your reply has the depth expected from you. None.
So I can presume you are one of the people that just makes a blanket statement but won't back it up or support what you said. I suppose I would have to also presume that you either don't know what your talking about or you don't have the fortitude to stand up for yourself.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:01 AM   #27
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I said what I meant and meant what I said. You are a pissy little 12-year old +/- 6 years and constantly try to draw people into fights, then backpedal. You fight like HooHaa. History has demonstrated that almost every conflict in history has been the direct result of religious difference. Christains have killed more people over the past 2000 years than any other organization on this planet in the name of their God. Christians preach tolerance, but practice intolerance. Christians preach inclusion, but practice exclusion. You can believe in whatever fairy tale you so desire. It doesn't affect me unless you start imposing your beliefs on me, which inevitably happens because Christians can't accept that many people dislike their beliefs, don't want their beliefs, and don't want to have their lives controlled by their beliefs. I am a very moral and upright person. I just don't believe in little deities floating in some imaginary palace in the sky that supposedly spoke to several select individuals thousands of years ago laying down the law for how humanity should live. I also don't thank "god" for all the good things that happen in my life. I thank my parents for setting a good example and paying for my undergraduate education. The rest was up to me and the choices I have made. I don't need some irrational and conveniently vague book, translated many times over by drunk monks to tell me what would jesus do. I am smart enough to know right from wrong. But, if you personally need that, go for it. You can do just as well getting a spine, an education, and making decisions on your own.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:48 AM   #28
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More people have been killed under the banner of Christianity than anything else. Christians as a whole are the most unforgiving, non-accepting, and unmoral group I can think of. Religion is the root of all evil. Wars are caused by religion. End Religion, End War.
well, you can't say it's just Christians, radical Muslims are just as bad or worse as Christians when it comes to intolerance.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 10:50 AM   #29
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Whoooohoooo Easter! Thank you Jesus.

<Unrelated Rant>

I think it's more along the lines of if you don't believe in a God, or his word, you don't have anything to gauge those morals off of except you (not you personally, But as a Society).

</Unrelated Rant>
that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:04 AM   #30
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well, you can't say it's just Christians, radical Muslims are just as bad or worse as Christians when it comes to intolerance.
Historically, Muslims basically just killed each other. Christians went out of there way to go on little global killing/conversion sprees. The Crusades were just rich with tolerance.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:52 AM   #31
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Historically, Muslims basically just killed each other. Christians went out of there way to go on little global killing/conversion sprees. The Crusades were just rich with tolerance.
well, I guess what i'm saying is that the Muslims are kind of narrowing the gap as of late in terms of intolerance. Don't get me wrong, I think the world would be a better place if none of the Abrahamic religions were in existence.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 01:20 PM   #32
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I said what I meant and meant what I said. You are a pissy little 12-year old +/- 6 years and constantly try to draw people into fights, then backpedal. You fight like HooHaa. History has demonstrated that almost every conflict in history has been the direct result of religious difference. Christains have killed more people over the past 2000 years than any other organization on this planet in the name of their God. Christians preach tolerance, but practice intolerance. Christians preach inclusion, but practice exclusion. You can believe in whatever fairy tale you so desire. It doesn't affect me unless you start imposing your beliefs on me, which inevitably happens because Christians can't accept that many people dislike their beliefs, don't want their beliefs, and don't want to have their lives controlled by their beliefs. I am a very moral and upright person. I just don't believe in little deities floating in some imaginary palace in the sky that supposedly spoke to several select individuals thousands of years ago laying down the law for how humanity should live. I also don't thank "god" for all the good things that happen in my life. I thank my parents for setting a good example and paying for my undergraduate education. The rest was up to me and the choices I have made. I don't need some irrational and conveniently vague book, translated many times over by drunk monks to tell me what would jesus do. I am smart enough to know right from wrong. But, if you personally need that, go for it. You can do just as well getting a spine, an education, and making decisions on your own.
Hey, Way to make generalizations. I have a College Education. I've made all my decisions for my life by my self. I would consider my self anything from Spinless.
People that make rash Generalization like that are the people that need to be educated. Not as in academics, but as in what the church really is like right now and how it should be. When it comes to wars and people dieing, that is life. Most of the wars waged in the old testament were done in the name of God, But I'm pretty sure they didn't have the same morals we have now. If they wouldn't have stood up and faught they would have died. Is it thier fault they had an Almighty God on thier side and won? No. If anything it made them united and gave them a Greater sense of purpose then any man could have ever given them.
I do agree that wars faught in more civilized times were wrong to do. Especially in the name of God. Alot of that has to do with people in power becoming corrupt and putting more faith in the Church establisment then God. The Catholic church and the crusades were one instance of that. In the mid-evil times the church was horribly corrupt. And guess what? It was run by people that ate, pooped, and slept. Just like us. The were inperfect. It boils down to the fact that any time the church gets away from God they tarnish the image of the body of Christ and hinder it's ability to do it's intended purpose. Preach the Gospel.
If you were to actually get involved with a church in your area ( I know of a Few) You might see that good things that are going on. I'm not saying become a Christian. But if you're going to make Such bold statments on a Belief system you may want to get in touch with what it's doing right now and not what it has done.
People in the church are inperfect and are trying to live to a perfect standard. I don't see that as a Bad thing. For some odd reason you do. As far as us being uneducated, Most christians believe in the same exact science, math, And all that that you do. Most of my Christian Friends are just as educated (if not more) then the normal person.

Just let me say that I'm not meaning this to be demeaning or anything. It's simply me stating what I've learned and from what I've Expierenced. Not personal at all.



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that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Explain why.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 03:08 PM   #33
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You and I have different views of churches. Mankind is a social beast. They form groups. They band together just as they have since the dark ages and before. Man depends on social interaction to fulfill their needs. Man also yearned for answers to questions about where he came from. Religion was formed as a way in which those questions could be answered. The stories from the bible are present in most other historical religions. Christianity was just one of the few that survived and flourished. Discussions of where we came from lead to groups of like minded people. These groups established religions. These became churches. It met the needs of the people at the time. They provided answers and social opportunities. To this day, I see the church as nothing more than a social fraternity for like minded people. Most people must belong to a group. I have no problem with the charitable and social aims of most churches. The freaks out in Iowa or wherever that picket military funerals are in a group all to themselves. I do have a problem with the church becoming the moral authority for all of society. Laws based on religious views need to go. I should not have to wait until noon on Sunday to buy my bottle of cooking wine just because some church goer doesn't like the idea of anyone buying or consuming alcohol on a Sunday, even though many churches use it themselves on Sunday mornings. Those laws are archaic and have lasted too long.

To your comment about the medievel churches being corrupt. That hasn't changed in 1,500 years. The Catholic church is the largest multi-level marketing scam on the planet and is rife with corrupt leaders. They are the largest private land owner in the US as well. Think of the tax money that isn't being paid to a huge number of locales across the US. I disagree with churches having tax exempt status.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 03:19 PM   #34
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Are you sure your name isn't Thomas.
How do you decide what to believe and not to believe of things that have not been proven to you.
x13. especially involving complex doctoral level astrophysics, and the like.

heck, just study some statistics to learn how to judge statistics. then take a look at the statistical improbabilities based on the "expert scientific estimates" on the best "theories" out there. (this forces you to take a leap of faith to a degree in that you personally can't possibly comprehend expert level theories on every subject)

statistically speaking, it's just as probable that we come from xenu, as it is the one true God, as it is a big bang.

I know one thing for certain. I am not just a collection of chemicals, and chain reactions to bio-electrical impulses. I can't "prove" I, or anyone else has a soul - I do however know it. I also can't "prove" that the sun will rise tomorrow, but likewise I do know it...
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 03:24 PM   #35
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Scrambler. The term "Christian" means Christlike. There have been none that have measured up to the man since he walked this planet.

there are however many of us who attempt to follow him. We are obviously less than perfect at it. we are also a people that tend to like to label people with terms that are perhaps not the best fit.

as for the Christian massacres your history books are evidently different than mine. For one thing, the "massive killings" in ancient crusades - while horrific - pale in volumes to the MILLIONS killed by pol pot, stalin, and in China over the Centuries. Add in the various thousands of years enslavement, and killings pre-Christ under Pharoh, Roman, and Viking laws, Atillah, Ghengis, etc. and quite simply it doesn't add up.

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Old March 23rd, 2008, 04:55 PM   #36
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Most of the modern holidays, including Christmas and Easter, are based on old Non-Christian holidays. Usually the holidays were the celebration of some earthen goddess or god. I believe Easter came from the celebration of Ester (spelling might be off) whom was the Greek(?) goddess of spring. When the Christians started forcing people to convert, they realized that the celebrations the people were used to having on those dates could not be stopped. So instead the day was re-named a Christian religious day. A back-story would be created, and thus the celebratory times stayed the same, with different meaning.

For example, next month is April Fools Day, which used to be the first day of the year. Christians changed it to Jan 1st, and beat and killed anyone who wouldn't change. It is just another very real and very bloody part of Christian history.

People that blame Muslims for not being tolerant of other religions while claiming to be a Christian are hypocrites. The history is there, and it is written in blood.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 05:08 PM   #37
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*snip*
It is just another very real and very bloody part of Human history.

*snip*

The history is there, and it is written in blood.
I for one haven't pointed out any specific religion as being war mongering. In fact I would take offense to the attempt to point at any single religion as being the blood thirstiest, or for religion as being the cause of all/greatest number of casualties.

again, look at the best guess for estimated population(s) over the roughly 5,000 years give or take of organized society.

untold millions died under various communist regimes without regard, or deference to any organized religion.

have countless millions been slaughtered in the name of Christianity? Yes, but as pointed out so too are they slaughtered for non-religious, non-denominational reasons over the millenia. I would argue it's more of a human condition, rather than one of false spirituality.

want some eye opening numbers?

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NAZIS.TAB1.3.GIF


http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NAZIS.CHAP1.HTM as pointed out in the paper, Nazi's killed untold population masses, not just Jews, and certainly not in the name of deference to any religion.

more light reading on genocides can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history

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Old March 23rd, 2008, 05:28 PM   #38
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You quote the facts of the genocide caused by Nazi Germany under Hitler and say that it outweighs Christian bloodshed? Did not Hitler himself say that he was creating the perfect race as god intended? Did not Hitler ban all NON-Christian religions?

Recent history such as the History channel and school textbooks like to edit out Hitler's Christian speeches. Modern Christians are doing their best to hide historical facts again. This is why 99% of todays society believes that Hitler was against all religion.

Even though we disagree with Hitler's cause, to say that he did not act under Christ would be another historical lie. Even though most Christians disagreed with Hitler, Hitler still believed himself to be a Christian. You should take the time to read Mein Kamph sometime to realize how Christian Hitler believed himself to be. Yes he was a very sick man, a very sick CHRISTIAN man!
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 05:34 PM   #39
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You quote the facts of the genocide caused by Nazi Germany under Hitler and say that it outweighs Christian bloodshed? Did not Hitler himself say that he was creating the perfect race as god intended? Did not Hitler ban all NON-Christian religions?

Even though we disagree with Hitler's cause, to say that he did not act under Christ would be another historical lie. Even though most Christians disagreed with Hitler, Hitler still believed himself to be a Christian. You should take the time to read Mein Kamph sometime to realize how Christian Hitler believed himself to be. Yes he was a very sick man, a very sick CHRISTIAN man!
You are insane if you believe hitler was a Christian. regardless of what he claimed for himself. I am also 3rd Generation German, I can tell you with personal certainty that a very large number of general army enlistees and conscripts were fighting for the motherland - the only deference they had to Hitler was out of fear of the system, and/or to the Social fabric of duty that existed in Germany at the time. I also can assure you, that the SS, which planned, or performed the largest proportion of the actual genocide were by no means Christians.

read the freaking paper, hell even skim it. it goes into depth on who was killed, and why under the nazi/fascist regime.

Hitler was an expert at stirring up my people. Yes, he spouted words proclaiming that nonsense - some impressionable folk may have believe it. More believed in the cause of the Motherland. (this coming from my Grandparents, not a history book)

note: feel free to also look up nazi-ism, and fascism in any dictionary - I haven't found a single one that attributes either to Christianity, or to religion...

finally if you even looked at the graph/grid I was pointing to several non-nazi & non-religious mass genocides from recent time as well - ones that are less splashy as the nazi genocide, but far more staggering in numbers, but spread out over decades.

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Old March 23rd, 2008, 05:51 PM   #40
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note: feel free to also look up nazi-ism, and fascism in any dictionary - I haven't found a single one that attributes either to Christianity, or to religion...
This is why I encourage people to read original text whenever I can. Wikipedia, nor Encyclopedia's or Dictionaries written Christians or Christian owned companies are historical fact. I have my Bachelors in English, with a minor in History. Much of my studies revolved around original versions of the bible, personal diaries, and historical records. Learning to read Old English was a bitch.

The type of editing that modern Christian society has put on the past events is sickening to anyone in search of truth, or even historical information.

Hitler's personal diary was released in the 90's. It is a very interesting read. He speaks about Christian religion a lot in it, as well as in his book Mein Kamph. His personal diary mentions his "lust" for young men, and his Christian beliefs fighting that instinct. Although he never admits to having sex with a man or child, he admits thinking about it. His diary is an amazing work focusing on the mind of a man torn between his personal feelings and religious feelings. This information has led some scholars to believe that if Christianity had not been so hard on homosexuals, that the entire rise of Hitler may never have happened. I'm not saying that I believe that, but it is an interesting theory.

You profess to being a Christian? Let's test your actual knowledge of your belief. Tell me who the first woman was?

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