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Old March 16th, 2008, 05:55 PM   #21
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FYI, you can still get XP as the OS on new dells at their business site.

I have Vista on my new computer, but running 4gb of RAM, it is nice.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 06:15 PM   #22
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Some good points, but some stuff has nothing to do with the question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post
if I wanted a mac, I'd buy a mac. no reason for vista's candy assed UI. further no reason to "protect" me from those dangerous system files.
Who's talking about a Mac?
as for running a home entertainment center - wtf would vista matter? if one wants to use bill gates' offerings there is the lame media center version of xp - but more importantly whichever TV/PVR card you use, should have its own application(s) for managing entertainment off of...

one thing to consider, is that many of the vendor built boxes have already switched over to vista - and you may encounter problems finding xp compatible drivers for some of the hardware should you wish to nuke the hdd and go back to xp

good friend of mine is an engineer at DCX and that's exactly the issue she faced - she ended up nuking the hdd anyway, and runs ubunto on it...
I'm a Linux fan, but I doubt that is going to help him run older MS compatible games, and using WINE is really overcomplicated for his needs

another thought to consider. generally speaking - all things being equal on the hardware front, you won't need as much hardware to run xp, as you will for vista. a modern processor running 2 gigs of ram will be more than adequate (and pretty affordable) compared to what most would suggest as a bare minimum for vista.
Total agreement here
and now that I've written a small novella - office 2007 and its candyassed mac wanna be UI, er "Ribbon" is one of the dumbest "innovations" Ive had the displeasure to experience in a while as well...
Again, no one is talking about Mac...
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Old March 16th, 2008, 07:01 PM   #23
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He's comparing Vista to a MacOS, as it seems that was what MS had set out to do.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 07:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
He's comparing Vista to a MacOS, as it seems that was what MS had set out to do.
Maybe so, but that really has nothing to do with the question asked.

I'm not a big MS fan, or Apple for that matter. LInux is nice for web surfing since there's not a lot of malicious code written for it, and as a plus you can download software free legally.


General rule of thumb:

Decide what the computer's main use will be, and choose the OS and software that best support what you want to do.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 07:38 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlooMule View Post
Some good points, but some stuff has nothing to do with the question...

vista = attempt at looking like a candy assed mac. if you didn't get that, sorry...

quite simply there is no need to "dumb down" a computer, or flash up the UI like they did with vista. it's all bloatware - worse, it's a failure of an imitation of a mac - as mac's can do it pretty efficiently...

your "total agreement" portion is actually exactly relevant to the question at hand posed by the original poster.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 07:44 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlooMule View Post

Decide what the computer's main use will be, and choose the OS and software that best support what you want to do.

and for that, there's really very little reason to pay more money for the huge system resource necessary to run vista even in lazy, on the couch, surfing the web, watching porn, webwheeling, or writing e-mails.

hell our GIS stations ran ArcGIS 9.2 with terrabytes of data on XP, with single core processors and were even up to the task of generating a county wide TIN - with only 2 gig of ram... people here saying "vista is nice" at 4 gigs of ram is ludicrous.

a $400 dell business machine running xp with 2 gigs of ram at most, and a 256 meg video card will do all anyone will ever "need" for home use - and do most of what many other than the hardcore gaming nerd will "desire"
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Old March 16th, 2008, 07:52 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brods View Post
Time to upgrade the kids computer and given all the complaints about Vista, would XP be a better choice until Windows 2009 comes out? The kids will want to load several older games (like from the windows95 era) on the new computer. So what do you recommend, just buy a computer with Vista or order one with XP?
Rye Bread, as you can see from the original post, Mac isn't listed as an option.

While I agree MS is trying to become Mac-like, it's not relevant here.

My newest computer runs XP and linux, Vista was available at the time but I passed because there were issues that came up trying to dual boot with Vista. However, if you are going to be using mainly MS products, it would be counterproductive not to get Vista and whatever hardware it requires simply because MS is working hard at planned obsolesence.

All Brods wants is a computer that will run his kids older MS compatible games. I doubt he really wants to get in on the anti- MS argument as it simply doesn't apply here.

BTW, I do agree with you- really. But OS bashing isn't offering any help here.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 07:59 PM   #28
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Here is an interesting write-up done by PC Magazine, and a good read if you're considering a new system.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2273579,00.asp

Haha...even PC Magazine declares Leopard the best and most reliable OS.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 08:07 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by RockyMTN05 View Post
Here is an interesting write-up done by PC Magazine, and a good read if you're considering a new system.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2273579,00.asp

Haha...even PC Magazine declares Leopard the best and most reliable OS.
There is an Apple love-fest going on in the computer magazine world, much like the Toyota is loved by auto magazines....

Apple makes nice stuff, pricey, but nice. Not perfect stuff though.

PC's have the advantage of sheer numbers, and Wal-Mart.

Linux can be made to run on both, but has quirks that will drive you nuts.
Message boards are full of posts like " I finally got my built-in webcam to work!!!"
Not exactly user friendly.


All computers suck, you just have to select the suck you can deal with.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 08:32 PM   #30
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Bloomule,

I agree with some of your points.

However, the article is still a good read for someone who may be on the fence, as it addresses specific issues.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 08:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlooMule View Post
There is an Apple love-fest going on in the computer magazine world, much like the Toyota is loved by auto magazines....

Apple makes nice stuff, pricey, but nice. Not perfect stuff though.

PC's have the advantage of sheer numbers, and Wal-Mart.

Linux can be made to run on both, but has quirks that will drive you nuts.
Message boards are full of posts like " I finally got my built-in webcam to work!!!"
Not exactly user friendly.


All computers suck, you just have to select the suck you can deal with.
x2 - I think Apple sucks the most!
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Old March 16th, 2008, 08:39 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMTN05 View Post
Bloomule,

I agree with some of your points.

However, the article is still a good read for someone who may be on the fence, as it addresses specific issues.
I'm all for research, but I've noticed a distinct Apple fetish in the press lately.

I may get a Mac mini for my wife, it's plenty powerful for what she needs to do, and there's less garbage out there to download. I tried getting her to use linux, but there just isn't the amount of card games and mahjong games available.

I dropped my PC mag and PC world subs when they kept writing about Macs. I want info on PC's, if I wanted info on Mac's I'd get MacWorld.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 08:48 PM   #33
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I would stick with XP right now until they finish SP1 for Vista to see if it gets better. They are still revising SP1. I work with Vista x64 on multiple machines, forcing myself to learn it for over a year now and I still dislike it. Some things are nice but not worth the headache.

Also they are on milestone 2 for Windows 7 and they are already mapping out Windows 8. So I'm not sure how much fixing Vista will get.

If you can get XP and the drivers for the new laptop get it. I've heard rumors of October or so of this year that XP licenses will be done being sold. I have a few execs wanting me to purchase 10-20 licenses of XP so we can continue to run it when we get new machines later in the year or possibly next year.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 10:40 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post
vista = attempt at looking like a candy assed mac. if you didn't get that, sorry...

quite simply there is no need to "dumb down" a computer, or flash up the UI like they did with vista. it's all bloatware - worse, it's a failure of an imitation of a mac - as mac's can do it pretty efficiently...

your "total agreement" portion is actually exactly relevant to the question at hand posed by the original poster.
I agree 100%...Not only that but Vista being the newest OP system every hacker and script kiddie will make sure to point out every hole there is in the next year or so, Thats good though because it takes the heat off XP as far as hacks and attacks goes. Stick with XP for as long as you can!
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Old March 16th, 2008, 10:52 PM   #35
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I have vista and I like it, and I don't have 4gigs of ram only 2, it runs fine for what I do with it.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 10:54 PM   #36
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I heard rumors from more then one source that Windows Vista will be dicontinued in October with a new system in place. I wouldn't waste my time with Vista even if that rumor wasn't true. If you plan on running a home entertainment system, then Vista is the way to go.
This rumor is very wrong. No way in hell are they going to discontinue Vista. There would be class action lawsuits aplenty if that happened - from hardware vendors, software vendors, etc... who had modified to the new Vista intricacies. Microsoft has confirmed that there will be a 3 year timeline until the Windows 7 release, although they haven't specified when the timeline begins (the Vista release, now, etc...).

What they might do is push out the EOL (end of life) on XP.

My personal opinion on the Vista upgrade - buy it with your new laptop, or PC, try it for a while, if it works for your needs, continue using it. If you don't like it, pirate XP. If you're worried about getting caught, you have something of a legal leg to stand on - http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/si...TA-DWNGRD.html - OEMs can do "Vista Downgrades". This means they can install XP for you legally, even though you don't have an XP license. Then, when you feel like using Vista, you may install it and legally use your Vista license. I haven't done much research in the fine details of this, but it's available. Also, after some of the class actions out there already, all licenses might come with downgrade-ability.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 10:58 PM   #37
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64bit 4gb Ram machines will be the norm in a year or year and a half. Sucks but even our software working with XP and/or Vista likes to consume excessive RAM. So what are we left to do, contact Microsoft and whine or through more RAM at it.

I am not a programmer and don't understand why throttles or chokes aren't easier to impose in Windows. That would solve well over 50% of our crashing/freezing and general instability.

If you have 512 and/or Win2K anymore you are obsolete in our book and are being phased out. SUN and a few others are being dropped from our UX support in 2010. Microsoft keeps switching and dropping support on Interix/SFU so we are phasing out our Unix based legacy software in 2010.

What is irconic though is that is the efficient shit though like previous posters mentioned (running UNIX or an Apple OS for that matter) that is being cut.
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Old March 16th, 2008, 11:06 PM   #38
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64bit 4gb Ram machines will be the norm in a year or year and a half. Sucks but even our software working with XP and/or Vista likes to consume excessive RAM. So what are we left to do, contact Microsoft and whine or through more RAM at it.

I am not a programmer and don't understand why throttles or chokes aren't easier to impose in Windows. That would solve well over 50% of our crashing/freezing and general instability.

If you have 512 and/or Win2K anymore you are obsolete in our book and are being phased out. SUN and a few others are being dropped from our UX support in 2010. Microsoft keeps switching and dropping support on Interix/SFU so we are phasing out our Unix based legacy software in 2010.

What is irconic though is that is the efficient shit though like previous posters mentioned (running UNIX or an Apple OS for that matter) that is being cut.
Time for me to chime in. That SFU / Interix and whatever they called it in 2003 has got to be the BIGGEST piece of CRAP I have ever had to work with!!!! It is so unstable!

Yeah, lets make our Windows box act like a Unix box. Y? Because we cannot figure out how to do it on Windows? Or interface a Unix box with a Windows box?

You put 2 completely different kernels on a box, you are asking for problems. I will be more than happy to see it go away!
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Old March 16th, 2008, 11:13 PM   #39
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So you would say you are satisfied that we are going solely in the Windows direction ?
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Old March 16th, 2008, 11:15 PM   #40
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So you would say you are satisfied that we are going solely in the Windows direction ?
No. I just think there are certain products that should be removed from the market like SFU. I have been around this market since the early DOS days and have not moved away from it even though there is a Windows GUI now.

Java is another one that sucks the big one. People need to stop writing code in Java. Use something that is NOT a big resource hog.
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